jimsleftfoot Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Having read through this the lot of this I feel that I need to say something. Where do other clubs make their money on matchdays? Catering - We have sold out our catering to an outside company so no matter how much extra tucker is sold on a matchday there is no extra money for the club. I would expect the outsourced caterer will pay commission to Latics based on the turnover of their operation and they will probably have to take care of some of the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I might be wrong but I understood the caterer paid OAFC a fixed amount for catering rights and would therefore pocket the extra profit from additional sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Multiple page thread ... I would dig it out but its not important... Clarity is the important thing... Which you are giving (if you are in the know)... For the record I still don't think it's clear and I still have seen nothing to say that Brassbank own the land. Though granted its probably Blitz who owns it, either himself or in a seperate company (to Latics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 ..This is not all TTA's fault, the one constant at the club is Alan Hardy, he runs the club and should take his share of the blame. He did a decent job when he was commercial manager, but now it has gone to pot over the the ten years + or so he's been Chief Exec/Club Secretary. ... i've never had a problem with Alan Hardy but this seems a very good point. perversely, maybe his role would be better carried out by someone who didn't care quite so much? proazac, you are not correct, you must remeber that Alan Hardy has not been constantly at Latics for those 10 years. There was a period when he was suspended. Chris Moore was in charge. Not exaclty the most glorious period in our history, arguably the worst, and it was pretty well documented at the time that AH was quite an obstacle to Chris Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) proazac, you are not correct, you must remeber that Alan Hardy has not been constantly at Latics for those 10 years. There was a period when he was suspended. Chris Moore was in charge. Not exaclty the most glorious period in our history, arguably the worst, and it was pretty well documented at the time that AH was quite an obstacle to Chris Moore. If you read my posts I commend Alan for standing up to Moore, hardy was on gardening leave for less than 3 months (unofficially). He was suspended after we signed Duncan Roberts as goalkeeping cover without the knowledge of Moore in March 2003. Once the :censored: hit the fan by early June Alan was acting in an unofficial capacity and in dialogue with the Jarvis, Joy and Dowie. By early July Hardy was back at his desk. Edited October 7, 2010 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I might be wrong but I understood the caterer paid OAFC a fixed amount for catering rights and would therefore pocket the extra profit from additional sales. Fair enough……….I was involved in negotiating on a outsourced catering contract for my own organisation and the caterer got the catering rights for a fixed amount plus commission on turnover over a certain threshold. I’m sure the contract is different but I don’t particularly think we can do much about the non-footballing income without massive investment anyway and the only way that’s going to happen now is in the form of a new stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Fair enough……….I was involved in negotiating on a outsourced catering contract for my own organisation and the caterer got the catering rights for a fixed amount plus commission on turnover over a certain threshold. I’m sure the contract is different but I don’t particularly think we can do much about the non-footballing income without massive investment anyway and the only way that’s going to happen now is in the form of a new stadium. Perhaps the club or Trust could clarify, until they do I will not buying ANYTHING from the concessions stands at BP if it does not benefit Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 proazac, you are not correct, you must remeber that Alan Hardy has not been constantly at Latics for those 10 years. There was a period when he was suspended. Chris Moore was in charge. Not exaclty the most glorious period in our history, arguably the worst, and it was pretty well documented at the time that AH was quite an obstacle to Chris Moore. He was also away from his desk between December and February last season after his operation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Perhaps the club or Trust could clarify, until they do I will not buying ANYTHING from the concessions stands at BP if it does not benefit Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd... There is two ways at looking at though.. ...if you don't buy anything then it becomes a unprofitable deal with the club and the catering either pull out or reduce the amount they are willing to pay... ...ok you get another firm in but it won't be long before they give up... This said, maybe it is better the club do their own catering... Given the level of :censored: on offer it wouldn't be hard to equal or better it. Its not like they are baking and coking onsite... Just warming up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 He was also away from his desk between December and February last season after his operation Not quite the same, he was on his blackberry, despite being under anaesthetic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 The biggest problem Dave is the club takes the easy option or simply cannot be bothered when they can contract everything out, they're obsessed with saving money but absolutely bloody clueless at trying to make it. This is not all TTA's fault, the one constant at the club is Alan Hardy, he runs the club and should take his share of the blame. He did a decent job when he was commercial manager, but now it has gone to pot over the the ten years + or so he's been Chief Exec/Club Secretary. The club's marketing is vital for the future existence of the club but they will not speculate on anything because they are terrified of losing money - it's one vicious circle. It's not only the stadium that is antiquated it is the attitude of our Chief Executive too. Whatever the rights or wrongs of Sean Jarvis were he made money for the club and provided a vital link for the fans. I've been of the opinion that this club will not move forward until Alan retires and TTA leave. Unfortunately Emperor Hardy is grooming his new apprentice, and if he's passing his 'money-making' strategy on - we're up :censored:-creek without a paddle. Alan seems to be everybody's new best mate and despite several run-ins with him over the years, even I can now speak to the guy far more politely and I have a lot more time for him than I did a few years ago. I'm grateful what he did in standing up to Moore and he brought much needed stability to the club during the dark summer of 2003, but surely his role needs to be questioned more? There's reasons why the club is failing in its attempts to make money and simply asking the faithful 3,500 to dig deeper is a joke and then when the faithful are unable to contribute more after buying season tickets, shirts for them and their kids, strike it lucky, programmes, betting, refreshments etc... (then you find out it's all contracted out!!!) - you are then accused of being apathetic by club officials. It really does make me think why the hell we bother... Exactly what I was getting at about 3 pages ago......... 'apathetic' still irks me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_latic Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Exactly what I was getting at about 3 pages ago......... 'apathetic' still irks me...... +1 They need to take a more positive approach in dealing with the fans, follow our managers example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 There is two ways at looking at though.. ...if you don't buy anything then it becomes a unprofitable deal with the club and the catering either pull out or reduce the amount they are willing to pay... ...ok you get another firm in but it won't be long before they give up... This said, maybe it is better the club do their own catering... Given the level of :censored: on offer it wouldn't be hard to equal or better it. Its not like they are baking and coking onsite... Just warming up... Am not 100 percent on this but, to the best of my knowledge, when the catering was 'in house' so to speak, we were making a loss. Since we have outsourced it, this is no longer the case. As far as I am aware, the club takes a percentage of the takings. What that percentage is I do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Am not 100 percent on this but, to the best of my knowledge, when the catering was 'in house' so to speak, we were making a loss. Since we have outsourced it, this is no longer the case. As far as I am aware, the club takes a percentage of the takings. What that percentage is I do not know. Well you can't make a loss if you outsource it surely... They pay us not the other way round... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhamains Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 It's like when they had to throw away 25 thousand pounds worth of pies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well you can't make a loss if you outsource it surely... They pay us not the other way round... everyone read that in the style of Michael Winner - it's great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Sean Jarvis was heading in the right direction with wanting tv's on the concourses (if you can call them concourses!!) and the bars. Get the fans in early, provide them with the early ko game on a Saturday dinnertime or Soccer Saturday and get them spending their money in the ground!! I would also have the bars re-opening after the game for a good hour to let the fans have a drink and watch the results whilst the traffic dies down. Hopefully when / if we do ever move to a new ground then all these things and many other things that come under the "match day experience" will be included and sorted out. This is imperative at the new ground. Millwall thought of it 17 years ago when they built the New Den. Hopefully Latics have taken note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) This is imperative at the new ground. Millwall thought of it 17 years ago when they built the New Den. Hopefully Latics have taken note. Millwall is not exactly a rip roaring success. All their small shareholders are having their shares cancelled and only those who currently hold 100,000 shares or more are retaining an ownership in the business. http://www.millwallholdingsplc.co.uk/an_14_sept_2010.pdf A new stadium is not a guarantee of future financial success. Edited October 8, 2010 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsgrandad Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Sean Jarvis was heading in the right direction with wanting tv's on the concourses (if you can call them concourses!!) and the bars. Get the fans in early, provide them with the early ko game on a Saturday dinnertime or Soccer Saturday and get them spending their money in the ground!! I would also have the bars re-opening after the game for a good hour to let the fans have a drink and watch the results whilst the traffic dies down. Hopefully when / if we do ever move to a new ground then all these things and many other things that come under the "match day experience" will be included and sorted out. I have to agree - one of the things we miss most now is the pre-game drink we used to have in the Lookers stand - a bit cramped but a great atmosphere and place to meet and swap predictions etc. Nowadays, we give our custom (along with many others) to a local pub. At Norwich last season, I noted that a fair number of the Latics fans actually stayed in the bar area beneath the stand - they had (I think) screens showing the game (I was one of the unfortunate ones who chose to endure the full 90 minutes outside). So a double bonus for Norwich - away supporters pay admission and add further income as the game progresses. Incidentally - Delia's delights are not! Don't know how, but the matchday experience does need to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Millwall is not exactly a rip roaring success. Maybe we shouldn't try and copy their financial strategy exactly, but Millwall's ground (minus the thugs...) makes for a good all round match day experience and this has probably helped contribute to improvements on the pitch too. If someone offered to me Millwall's league position and facilities in ten years time for Latics, I'd take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo_84 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Where do other clubs make their money on matchdays? Catering - We have sold out our catering to an outside company so no matter how much extra tucker is sold on a matchday there is no extra money for the club. Bars - Same as above!! Programmes - Same as above!! Ok the club have a guaranteed (sp) income from all of these but are simply not going to do anything to increase sales in any of these departments as no extra money will come to the club from it. Apologies if any of my information is no longer correct!! Additional Information re above comments:- Having had a chat will Alan Hardy today about this and some other points that I made in my earlier post Alan has confirmed that the club DOES have all these run by outside companies BUT the club DO make money on each of them depending on sales and that the initial payment by far outweighs the losses that they were previously experiencing. The club previously (when running these "in house") were losing money on each of them but Alan can now confirm that each "franchise" pays the club a fixed amount and there is also an agreement that the club get a percentage of sales above a certain level. Sorry if my earlier comments were misleading. Dave Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break The Silence Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Where do other clubs make their money on matchdays? Catering - We have sold out our catering to an outside company so no matter how much extra tucker is sold on a matchday there is no extra money for the club. Bars - Same as above!! Programmes - Same as above!! Ok the club have a guaranteed (sp) income from all of these but are simply not going to do anything to increase sales in any of these departments as no extra money will come to the club from it. Apologies if any of my information is no longer correct!! Additional Information re above comments:- Having had a chat will Alan Hardy today about this and some other points that I made in my earlier post Alan has confirmed that the club DOES have all these run by outside companies BUT the club DO make money on each of them depending on sales and that the initial payment by far outweighs the losses that they were previously experiencing. The club previously (when running these "in house") were losing money on each of them but Alan can now confirm that each "franchise" pays the club a fixed amount and there is also an agreement that the club get a percentage of sales above a certain level. Sorry if my earlier comments were misleading. Dave Hudson I trust you've been binned from flogging programmes then Rumpole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Really disappointed with this self-serving and self-absolving comment by Barry; I really cannot say how much it aggravates me to read it. As others have pointed out on here, the guys who attend every week already pay for pies, programmes, strike it lucky and all the rest; why should they pay for the player share too? If they can then fantastic, but to try and guilt-trip people is beyond the pale - who the hell do you think you are? For my money this boils down to something simple; as long as the land is held by the current owners then I am not going to feel guilty for not contributing to player share - are we suggesting that we the fans put everything into the club to have the ground sold from under us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Perhaps the club or Trust could clarify, until they do I will not buying ANYTHING from the concessions stands at BP if it does not benefit Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd... Knowing someone who worked with the club for a couple of weeks last season (before ditching the role) he tells me that virtually everything is out-sourced. Baffling really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Outsourcing something that only sells for two hours a fortnight makes absolute sense. It removes costs from the payroll, removes any employment law liabilities from the club and provides a guaranteed minimum income. When that income is paid, how much it is, and whether or not higher sales = higher income for the club are the key questions. Has somebody signed Latics up to a duff deal, or does the current arrangment actually provide a really good income stream for Latics? A contract signed when crowds were 5,500, guaranteeing a fixed income, may actually be a bloody good deal given current attendances. Latics keeps all it's income, pie seller firm sees a 30% drop in sales. I don't think we should assume that pies, even in Oldham, are ever going to generate the sales and profit margins needed to generate the funds to build a new stand at Boundary Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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