TheBigDog Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 There are many who criticise P Diddy for pulling all eleven back for corners - I am one of the more vocal on that front as I believe it leaves us susceptible to continued pressure and (far worse) it leads to a lack of ownership at the back. On saturday we saw Reid left up field after he came on (already four down at that stage) - and hey presto (whatever that means) two Posh defenders tracked him (they obviously have not watched Reid recently...). I would like to see not one but two players left upfield and at least one on the edge of the area (still leaves eight to defend the area) - thereby draging at least three back plus the keeper - I wonder if PD will persevere with this tactic or was it simply an act of desperation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Totally agree. Plus how many goals by other teams do we see that come from quick breaks sprung from corners? It does seem a slighty odd tactic, especially from a usually attack minded manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 There are many who criticise P Diddy for pulling all eleven back for corners - I am one of the more vocal on that front as I believe it leaves us susceptible to continued pressure and (far worse) it leads to a lack of ownership at the back. On saturday we saw Reid left up field after he came on (already four down at that stage) - and hey presto (whatever that means) two Posh defenders tracked him (they obviously have not watched Reid recently...). I would like to see not one but two players left upfield and at least one on the edge of the area (still leaves eight to defend the area) - thereby draging at least three back plus the keeper - I wonder if PD will persevere with this tactic or was it simply an act of desperation? This was lifted from an email sent to me by a Latics supporting friend and sometime poster on this board in relation to a quote that Mournho used when being asked about defending set pieces. This from Mourinho..... Mourinho has long been associated with the concept of "transition" in a football match - the idea that the opposition is at its most vulnerable when it loses possession. "At corners, I would keep three players up. That avoids the penalty area becoming too crowded and allows the goalkeeper a clear run at the ball but it also provides my teams with great counterattacking opportunities." Look, he has a bigger budget but we're playing the same game right? I think it's hard to disagree when you put it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This was lifted from an email sent to me by a Latics supporting friend and sometime poster on this board in relation to a quote that Mournho used when being asked about defending set pieces. This from Mourinho..... Mourinho has long been associated with the concept of "transition" in a football match - the idea that the opposition is at its most vulnerable when it loses possession. "At corners, I would keep three players up. That avoids the penalty area becoming too crowded and allows the goalkeeper a clear run at the ball but it also provides my teams with great counterattacking opportunities." Look, he has a bigger budget but we're playing the same game right? I think it's hard to disagree when you put it like that. There’s the opposition ‘Keeper, the corner taker and usually at least 1 defender, so that means at most, they can only have 8 in & around our box. We have all 11 back. We still concede far too many soft goals from set pieces yet numerically, we have a superior number advantage with this tactic. It’s clearly not working so why persist with it? It seems strange. Aidy White and Sam Mantom (from Saturdays game) aren’t big enough or strong enough to add any real defensive benefit to the side at corners. It’s not as though White is going to out jump & out muscle a big CB to clear a header is it? Leave one of them beyond the edge of the box; almost pushing ½ way inside our half, and 1 actually in & around the half way line. They, the opposition, would have to bring back at least 3 more players to cover our 2, meaning a less congested box, and less opposition to pick up the 2nd balls. We also have a genuine threat on the breakaway; with the pace of a White to utilise...... I’m amazed we’re continuing with the tactic of everyone back when it’s so clearly flawed...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's a trendy coaching fad, common sense will return one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 There’s the opposition ‘Keeper, the corner taker and usually at least 1 defender, so that means at most, they can only have 8 in & around our box. We have all 11 back. We still concede far too many soft goals from set pieces yet numerically, we have a superior number advantage with this tactic. It’s clearly not working so why persist with it? It seems strange. Aidy White and Sam Mantom (from Saturdays game) aren’t big enough or strong enough to add any real defensive benefit to the side at corners. It’s not as though White is going to out jump & out muscle a big CB to clear a header is it? Leave one of them beyond the edge of the box; almost pushing ½ way inside our half, and 1 actually in & around the half way line. They, the opposition, would have to bring back at least 3 more players to cover our 2, meaning a less congested box, and less opposition to pick up the 2nd balls. We also have a genuine threat on the breakaway; with the pace of a White to utilise...... I’m amazed we’re continuing with the tactic of everyone back when it’s so clearly flawed...... It's the sustained pressure thing that really bugs me about having everyone back in the box. It's almost like having to defend 2 set pieces instead of one, as when we do actually manage to get a half decent header/punch away or whatever, the ball is always picked up by an oppo player and invariably pupmed back into the box like a free kick, or second set piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Leave White at halfway line, one halfway inside own half (Morais?).. makes us have one upfront who will outpace almost any defender, and one who is their to chase/pick up any loose balls from a defending header.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmad Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's the sustained pressure thing that really bugs me about having everyone back in the box. It's almost like having to defend 2 set pieces instead of one, as when we do actually manage to get a half decent header/punch away or whatever, the ball is always picked up by an oppo player and invariably pupmed back into the box like a free kick, or second set piece. Dan, I totally agree mate. I think you just hit the nail on the head!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Even though we left 11 back on Saturday- they still had 3 free headers from corners. 1.) The one round the back which we didn't react to 2.) The one that headed in the headed cross 3.) The scorer of their third. We could have had 15 players back defending our corners, but it doesn't make a bit of difference if their player gets a free header. I was surprised at Boyd standing on the back post when they were defending, but he was partially there to stop the one round the back too- maybe we should have cottoned on to this and realised they were likely to try it. I'd definately leave White up front when defending corners, he has the ability and the speed to give every opposition player I've seen difficulty with defending. That combined with Amos's distribution skills mean a potent counter-attacking weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'd definately leave White up front when defending corners, he has the ability and the speed to give every opposition player I've seen difficulty with defending. That combined with Amos's distribution skills mean a potent counter-attacking weapon. Aidy White and Sam Mantom (from Saturdays game) aren’t big enough or strong enough to add any real defensive benefit to the side at corners. It’s not as though White is going to out jump & out muscle a big CB to clear a header is it?Leave one of them beyond the edge of the box; almost pushing ½ way inside our half, and 1 actually in & around the half way line. They, the opposition, would have to bring back at least 3 more players to cover our 2, meaning a less congested box, and less opposition to pick up the 2nd balls. We also have a genuine threat on the breakaway; with the pace of a White to utilise...... Leave White at halfway line, one halfway inside own half (Morais?).. makes us have one upfront who will outpace almost any defender, and one who is their to chase/pick up any loose balls from a defending header.. Seems we're all singing from the same song sheet - shame that at the moment; the management team don't seem to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Seems we're all singing from the same song sheet - shame that at the moment; the management team don't seem to be. maybe they have considered it,but thought it was too much of a risk against the likes of posh..however once the second goal went in i would have changed it,they had free reign to put the ball were they wanted...and they used it to there advantage....its ok having everyone back providing they know who to pick up,and where there position is supposed to be...too many back not knowing what to do and by the time they have worked it out,bang the cross is already in... one on the endge of the box one in semi circle half way line one out wide on wing,put the small nippy players there then gives em food for thought,rather than 2 in centre circle where they are far too easy to manage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 maybe they have considered it,but thought it was too much of a risk against the likes of posh..however once the second goal went in i would have changed it,they had free reign to put the ball were they wanted...and they used it to there advantage....its ok having everyone back providing they know who to pick up,and where there position is supposed to be...too many back not knowing what to do and by the time they have worked it out,bang the cross is already in... one on the endge of the box one in semi circle half way line one out wide on wing,put the small nippy players there then gives em food for thought,rather than 2 in centre circle where they are far too easy to manage... Leave White at halfway line, one halfway inside own half (Morais?).. makes us have one upfront who will outpace almost any defender, and one who is their to chase/pick up any loose balls from a defending header.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 This was possibly the most annoying thing about Saturday for me , makes no sense and it didnt even after Dickov explained it at the last fans forum , yeh keeping all 11 back allows for us to defend with more bodies but it also adds to opposition players in the box ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 This was possibly the most annoying thing about Saturday for me , makes no sense and it didnt even after Dickov explained it at the last fans forum , yeh keeping all 11 back allows for us to defend with more bodies but it also adds to opposition players in the box ! Get rid of this stupid zonal marking and attack the ball is the answer. Surely Gerry Taggart a big old fashioned centre back himself should be able to sort it out by insisting in the right type of player is brought in to make it work. Andy Todd is hardly dominating in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Get rid of this stupid zonal marking and attack the ball is the answer. Surely Gerry Taggart a big old fashioned centre back himself should be able to sort it out by insisting in the right type of player is brought in to make it work. Andy Todd is hardly dominating in the air. Andy todd is hardly good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Did anyone re-ask this question about 'all hands on deck'. I know last time was PD's answer was because he believed we have the pace and power to turn it into attack very quckly, but given we've shipped in a ton of goals off set-pieces this season it's very clear it isn't a strategy that's working. Or were you all scared of Gerry Taggart you set of fannies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Did anyone re-ask this question about 'all hands on deck'. I know last time was PD's answer was because he believed we have the pace and power to turn it into attack very quckly, but given we've shipped in a ton of goals off set-pieces this season it's very clear it isn't a strategy that's working. Or were you all scared of Gerry Taggart you set of fannies. Someone brave enough did ask this question (not me ) They more or less said pulling all eleven back was a solution they used for our defensive weaknessess earlier this season at corners/free kicks. Hopefully someone else can provide a bit more info (if there is any) or just calrify the point as i didnt pay particular attention for this question. I do remember they pointed out it had been working in previous games to Saturday and that we hadn't conceded from one for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I do remember they pointed out it had been working in previous games to Saturday and that we hadn't conceded from one for a while. but weve also not been scoring for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I never understand why we don't leave 4 up? The other team would be forced to leave 5 defenders plus the keeper back, take in the one taking the corner, and they've only got 4 in the box, whereas we would have 7! (Works on Football Manager, anyway!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Seems we're all singing from the same song sheet - shame that at the moment; the management team don't seem to be. Bournemouth on Saturday - the home team will play an atttacking game and this is the perfect time to try leaving two up field - Tounkara and White for me - that would really open up the game and allow us to quickly counter attack. Come on management - we really have nothing to lose at the moment do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erratic_Latic Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Everyone around me in Main Stand feels the same - 11 in the box makes no sense for all the reasons in this thread. I'd never claim to know even 10% of what Paul Dickov knows about football, but on this point..... we're right, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Something I was reading the other night for anybody who may be interested.... Successful Corners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I don't know why we bring anybody back for corners. We never win a header. Leave them all on the halfway line and let Amos deal with it. (At the other end of the field, I thought Mantom's near post corners aimed at Trotman for the flick on were more threatening than anything Stephens has delivered in recent weeks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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