Anyone who has received their Census form

[oafc0000]

It isn't though, is it? It's one or the other. My choice infringes yours, and vice versa.

 

I don't see it that way...

 

All children require education and for that we need x amount of money. The spending of that goes on different types of schools and you choose the one that fits your family. I don't believe for a second there is any kid that is being forced to go to a faith school their parents don't want them to go to. The opposite is possibly less true given the demand, but still, there is a option for parents to exercise.

 

So it's not one or the other... We have a mix and parents have choice. The spend per child is no different.

Edited March 24, 2011 by oafc0000

[Crusoe]

For me it's not about cost, it's a principle. I believe religion should be kept out of state-provided education. I accept that not everyone shares that view, but I don't have a solution in mind.

[oafc0000]

For me it's not about cost, it's a principle. I believe religion should be kept out of state-provided education. I accept that not everyone shares that view, but I don't have a solution in mind.

 

Well I accept you hold that view... I hold a different one...

 

http://www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/foi/disclosuresaboutschools/a0065446/maintained-faith-schools

 

These are the actual number of faith schools. Around 25%...

 

The demand for these types school certainly out strips that 25%! So maybe you should rest easy that overall your vision is catered for more than others.

 

I believe in choice for parents... The only requirement I believe in is teaching the National Curriculum...

 

I think its a shame that you wish to force other parents not to have the education they want for their kids... Ultimately, that choice has little impact on your life...

Edited March 24, 2011 by oafc0000

[leeslover]

If you think about it logically, you are being entirely unreasonable by saying there should be no choice and everyone should be educated in the way you personally view is correct. The system offers choice and options... Choose what works for you... I don't see why millions should lose the choices they want...

You would have a point if I were advocating compulsory teaching of atheism, I am not. Naturally, I could list my qualifications to demonstrate my ability to apply logic, but I don't think you could take it so soon after being beasted by Dr Medic over your scientific credentials

[Crusoe]

Out of interest, where are you getting your figures on demand from?

[oafc0000]

You would have a point if I were advocating compulsory teaching of atheism, I am not. Naturally, I could list my qualifications to demonstrate my ability to apply logic, but I don't think you could take it so soon after being beasted by Dr Medic over your scientific credentials

 

Oh yeah, because that is what our student doctor did

[oafc0000]

Out of interest, where are you getting your figures on demand from?

 

I can not be arsed doing a proper search for you... But its a simple fact that the majority of faith schools are over subscribed...

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

You would have a point if I were advocating compulsory teaching of atheism, I am not. Naturally, I could list my qualifications to demonstrate my ability to apply logic, but I don't think you could take it so soon after being beasted by Dr Medic over your scientific credentials

 

Atheism is compulsory - it's shown at all times on all BBC channels, for instance. Who'd a thunk that atheism could tap into the herd instinct?

 

Incidentally, I reckon degrees should lapse after a certain number of years unless you do top-up exams.

[Crusoe]

In that case, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Sorry — that was intended for oafc0000

Edited March 24, 2011 by Crusoe

[oafc0000]

In that case, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Sorry — that was intended for oafc0000

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=faith+schools+oversubscribed

[leeslover]

Atheism is compulsory - it's shown at all times on all BBC channels, for instance. Who'd a thunk that atheism could tap into the herd instinct?

What a load of rusty arse-water.

 

Incidentally, I reckon degrees should lapse after a certain number of years unless you do top-up exams.

 

That's why I keep myself sharp by debating questions of Toleration on OWTB.

[Crusoe]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=faith+schools+oversubscribed

Not my job to do your research. If you make a claim, you back it up.

 

By the way, I haven't said you're wrong. You may be spot on. But since it's a fairly important part of your position, it's reasonable to be able to support it.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

What a load of rusty arse-water.

 

 

 

 

Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[leeslover]

Not my job to do your research. If you make a claim, you back it up.

 

By the way, I haven't said you're wrong. You may be spot on. But since it's a fairly important part of your position, it's reasonable to be able to support it.

Missing the point, you don't need evidence if you have Faith

[Crusoe]

Damn, found out! I humbly withdraw...

[rudemedic]

I don't get why people have a problem with choice...

 

If your not religious or disagree with these schools, send your kid to a normal state school... The people who choose to send their kids to these schools are also TAX PAYERS and deserve to have their wants and needs catered for as well.

 

I find it funny when people say I don't want "my" money going towards paying for your kid to have a religious education. Well it all depends how you view it. I would imagine the majority of the taxes paid out by the parents (or the business they run etc) of these children is covering their education. So you can sleep easy knowing your contributions are funding other types of schools.

 

To flip the argument... Why should religious parents fund the unholy education for your children

 

Does the LEA only receive tax funding for the area its in so does Bury only get tax funding from Bury tax payers? If so then great- as it meant my parents got the benefit of paying less tax so a lot of the children near me could go to the religious schools in Bury and get the benefit of them getting a better education.

 

If not then I don't think they would have minded as improving state education should be up there in the priorities of tax spending for every taxpayer. Frankly, there is only really one subject where a religious education helps, if to get a "better education" it means going to a religious school then I personally couldn't care if they taught the gospel according to Ronald McDonald.

 

Letting people flaunt the system by "going to church" is not the best solution- the best solution is to improve every school.

Edited March 24, 2011 by rudemedic

[jimsleftfoot]

I don't get why people have a problem with choice...

 

If your not religious or disagree with these schools, send your kid to a normal state school... The people who choose to send their kids to these schools are also TAX PAYERS and deserve to have their wants and needs catered for as well.

 

I find it funny when people say I don't want "my" money going towards paying for your kid to have a religious education. Well it all depends how you view it. I would imagine the majority of the taxes paid out by the parents (or the business they run etc) of these children is covering their education. So you can sleep easy knowing your contributions are funding other types of schools.

 

To flip the argument... Why should religious parents fund the unholy education for your children

 

I was agreeing with you by the way that choice should be there.

[jimsleftfoot]

Why should millions be denied their choice not to pay for faith-based education?

 

The likelihood is that the Faith School costs are generally in line with the number of people that attend them so generally you would expect them to be funded by the taxes of the parents of children who go there. Some costs, such as capital funding, are often paid for by the associated Churches, so I would say it is unlikely that this is the case.

[oafc0000]

I was agreeing with you by the way that choice should be there.

 

Yup.. I know...

[Crusoe]

I should probably say that I agree it's a nonsense to get uppity about "my" taxes and what they pay for. There are a few things I object to, but hey, it's a representative democracy, and I don't have such a problem I'm protesting.

 

Good to see that a football message board can sustain a thread like this.

[leeslover]

Back to the Census itself, I would have dodged it given the chance but just filled it in so that I have one less black mark against my name the next time my flatmates find me unconscious in the corridor with an Ecuadorian rent boy. Some of it is absolutely intrusive and unjustified in terms of gathering global data - address for where I work, why? The great majority of questions look just like what you would ask if you were trying to catch out people who aren't legally in the country or are allowed to be here but don't declare their work, which sort of indicates to me why it won't get a 100% response.

 

As for the others - I put nationality as English (15), ethnic group (16) as Irish. It's a bit of a mix-up there, I have as much claim to being Welsh for my ethnic background as I do for being English. Northern Irish is there as an ethnicity, I guess I could tick that bit it would just be silly, it's there as a sopp to question 15, the Northern Irish are Irish, or Scottish, or a mix of the two. It makes you think what immigrants feel when they are asked if they feel English, British or whatever.

[jimsleftfoot]

Incidentally, I reckon degrees should lapse after a certain number of years unless you do top-up exams.

 

Thats what professional qualifications are for.

[oafc0000]

Thats what professional qualifications are for.

 

No... They allow big corporates like Oracle / Microsoft to spunk money off you for very little

 

To be fair, I am mainly just talking about the tech world... I am sure things like Project Management qualifications are better

[leeslover]

No... They allow big corporates like Oracle / Microsoft to spunk money off you for very little

 

To be fair, I am mainly just talking about the tech world... I am sure things like Project Management qualifications are better

As it happens, one of my team just came to me with two courses he is interested in and asked if we would fund him to do one. He was much keener to do the one with a Microsoft qualification at the end of it even though as I pointed out to him he already knows how to do 90% of the course content Not the easiest sell when I am asking my boss to cough up for it.

[oafc0000]

As it happens, one of my team just came to me with two courses he is interested in and asked if we would fund him to do one. He was much keener to do the one with a Microsoft qualification at the end of it even though as I pointed out to him he already knows how to do 90% of the course content Not the easiest sell when I am asking my boss to cough up for it.

 

Little use to you then... Some use to him...

 

Although you do get to say you have microsoft certified personnel... For whatever worth that is (none)...

 

Thought long hard on many occasions about doing them and never bothered. I can't say its held me back.... It just seems like an utter waste of money and more about pushing brands rather than skills.

Edited March 25, 2011 by oafc0000