Stoney Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Here's hoping he has a great game on Saturday - always said that I felt that this guy could make it and this season performance I think anyway much improved would love to see what he could do with a extend run in the team reckon he would scare many of the defenders in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStationLatic Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If Smith continues to perform again when he gets his proper chance on Saturday - ie a start - I think that might tempt Dickov towards going 4-3-3. I can't see him dropping Baxter and Derbyshire, but if Smith scores again and plays well then there will be a lot of pressure to keep him in the team. I don't believe you have to have wingers to play that system. It's not just 'hoof'. You hit it long from the back when necessary but when Smith wins headers and the ball breaks down in midfield from pressing high, that's when you play your football - higher up the pitch. Having three up top offers more outlets. The two wide lads can also be found with relatively simple balls down the channels, which either drag the other team's full-backs back or tempt the centre-backs to cover and split - leaving space. The main thing, though, is that it's simply harder to pick men up - there's much more fluidity in the system. We keep getting out-numbered so easily in the middle in a 4-4-2, 4-4-1. And in those formations, as soon as we try to 'get it down and play', we just tend to move the ball out wide - and when it's not done with enough pace, it's too easy to defend against as we've seen with teams doubling up on Croft and Montano by pushing their full-backs up to join the wingers and then playing five across the middle to frustrate us in midfield. That, consequently, has led to the 'sideways and backwards passing', wasting time. Then we've resorted to hitting it long and drifted into the inevitable 'flick-on' from Smith/Simpson that playing with two strikers seems to encourage. Sod that, They need to control it and find the runners - but that and the flick-ons would surely be easier for Smith in my opinion if you have two up there alongside him. Also, if the ball sticks up top, or the three midfielders mop up winning second balls and can keep it, that's when the full-backs overlap and you get the width. If they get forward and the other team counter, obviously the midfielders cover back - again note the fluidity. Anyway, back to 4-4-2 on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'm excited about the Derbyshire and Smith combination. Big man, little man is something very effective still, especially with the extremes, Smith being so tall and Derbyshire being so brainy and clinical. Everytime I've seen them play together its been promising, so pleased they will get the chance to start together. Also, Smith's improvement over the past year has been remarkable; the lad has given us a threat, this year, that he just didn't offer last year. He seems to win every header now whereas last year he was getting bullied by defenders 6 inches smaller than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I I'm excited about the Derbyshire and Smith combination. Big man, little man is something very effective still, especially with the extremes, Smith being so tall and Derbyshire being so brainy and clinical. Everytime I've seen them play together its been promising, so pleased they will get the chance to start together. Also, Smith's improvement over the past year has been remarkable; the lad has given us a threat, this year, that he just didn't offer last year. He seems to win every header now whereas last year he was getting bullied by defenders 6 inches smaller than him. Not a starter for me, doesn't make enough of an impact and we resort to the hoof too early. He has been having an effect when used as a sub, would leave him in that role. Hopefully Cisak moving on will free up some pennies for a striker, especially with Derbyshire having to go back in mid December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think the last few games have proven that he is best used as an impact sub, rather than a starter. He's a great option to bring on when centre backs are beginning to tire and is awkward for them to face. I just don't think he's a good enough footballer to play from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgaz Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Only time will tell. He has rarely started so we can only assume that this will be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticdickovarmy Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Smith has to start up top with Derbyshire, cant disagree with a single thing that was said by Icestationlatic He has earned his chance and started to win some fans around and on the basis of what seen of him this season I would give him a deal 1 year extention in the summer as think he is out of contract then and cant imagine he is on a big wage If we go direct saturday and win 2-0 with 2 smith headers then brilliant, its about winning games not trying to play football having a lapse in concentration at the back and losing 1-0. It does need mixing up and Derbyshire can provide that with his every willing runs in the channel and will offer an outlet to feet The key to play Smith may well be the willingness of a runner from deep, Arsenal goal last night was a prime example. They threw it into the big man Giroud and Wilshere timed his run and scored with ease, we can do this as well it aint a lot of coaching its just quality into the box and anticipation of getting on the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The key to play Smith may well be the willingness of a runner from deep, Arsenal goal last night was a prime example. They threw it into the big man Giroud and Wilshere timed his run and scored with ease, we can do this as well it aint a lot of coaching its just quality into the box and anticipation of getting on the end of it. This is indeed the key - you can make the best players in the world look :censored:e if you all you do is smash it at them and stand watching. You either have to get it wide and cross it for him to attack or you have to lump it at him and overlap either wide or down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) He's won a few headers and scored a couple of decent goals. Generally though, he's clumsy, slow, takes an age to turn with a pretty poor first touch. I actually don't mind Smith, he's a tryer and offers us something different, just think he's getting bigged up a bit too much. Probably deserves start Saturday, bad sign though.. I'd much prefer a half fit/in form Simpson. Edited November 22, 2012 by longtimeblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Wouldn't it work better with Smith and Baxter up top instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticdickovarmy Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) It would probably work best with just smith and runners but I wouldnt for a second drop Derbyshire or play him deeper, in an ideal world Derbyshire, Smith and Baxter could all play in the same side and if Derbyshire is clever enough in his movement which I belive he is and was willing to sacrfice scoring goals for the team it would be even better if he makes runs all over the box when the ball comes in drags a CB marking him away allowing space for Baxter or the wide man from the other side to get in the box and to score goals In reality that requires them all to be on the same wavelength and good communication as well as Smith to nod the ball down into the right areas, bloody hard to do but not the most coaching in the world. A simple move that looks like its direct football but its actually clever coaching, Big Sam teams as much as I hate him do it very well and thats because someone like Nolan is a willing runner and gets double figures as a result often Edited November 22, 2012 by laticdickovarmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 .. I'd much prefer a half fit/in form Simpson. Is there such a creature? (I think Simpson will play wide on Saturday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Is there such a creature? (I think Simpson will play wide on Saturday) Didn't he play wide when he was at Huddersfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 If Smith continues to perform again when he gets his proper chance on Saturday - ie a start - I think that might tempt Dickov towards going 4-3-3. I can't see him dropping Baxter and Derbyshire, but if Smith scores again and plays well then there will be a lot of pressure to keep him in the team. I don't believe you have to have wingers to play that system. It's not just 'hoof'. You hit it long from the back when necessary but when Smith wins headers and the ball breaks down in midfield from pressing high, that's when you play your football - higher up the pitch. Having three up top offers more outlets. The two wide lads can also be found with relatively simple balls down the channels, which either drag the other team's full-backs back or tempt the centre-backs to cover and split - leaving space. The main thing, though, is that it's simply harder to pick men up - there's much more fluidity in the system. We keep getting out-numbered so easily in the middle in a 4-4-2, 4-4-1. And in those formations, as soon as we try to 'get it down and play', we just tend to move the ball out wide - and when it's not done with enough pace, it's too easy to defend against as we've seen with teams doubling up on Croft and Montano by pushing their full-backs up to join the wingers and then playing five across the middle to frustrate us in midfield. That, consequently, has led to the 'sideways and backwards passing', wasting time. Then we've resorted to hitting it long and drifted into the inevitable 'flick-on' from Smith/Simpson that playing with two strikers seems to encourage. Sod that, They need to control it and find the runners - but that and the flick-ons would surely be easier for Smith in my opinion if you have two up there alongside him. Also, if the ball sticks up top, or the three midfielders mop up winning second balls and can keep it, that's when the full-backs overlap and you get the width. If they get forward and the other team counter, obviously the midfielders cover back - again note the fluidity. Anyway, back to 4-4-2 on Saturday. So would that be something like this? Bouzanis Wabara Byrne Mvoto Grounds Furman Wes Changy Baxter Smith Derbyshire If so I'd be very happy to give that a go, Croft and Montano spending a little bit of time on the bench may do them good, although Croft might be able to fit into that system in place of Changy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Didn't he play wide when he was at Huddersfield? On the few occasions he was allowed near the matchday squad, yes. Brentford used him wide and centrally. I think he looks :censored:e wide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 So would that be something like this? Bouzanis Wabara Byrne Mvoto Grounds Furman Wes Changy Baxter Smith Derbyshire If so I'd be very happy to give that a go, Croft and Montano spending a little bit of time on the bench may do them good, although Croft might be able to fit into that system in place of Changy. I've been pondering something like that. IT could be great or it could be awful, depending on the disciple for the CMs to cover FBs going forward, or avoiding all the CBs and FBs either all rushing forward or (more likely) all sitting back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 On the few occasions he was allowed near the matchday squad, yes. Brentford used him wide and centrally. I think he looks :censored:e wide! Can't be as bad as what we currently have can he? Croft carnt beat a man to save his life! I'd play a 442 dimond system against Shrewsbury. Bouzanis Wabara Byrne Mvoto Grounds Furman Simpson Croft Baxter Smith Derbyshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) So would that be something like this? Bouzanis Wabara Byrne Mvoto Grounds Furman Wes Changy Baxter Smith Derbyshire If so I'd be very happy to give that a go, Croft and Montano spending a little bit of time on the bench may do them good, although Croft might be able to fit into that system in place of Changy. Recently, I think we've found that we're a better sode when Furman and Wes are pushing upfield a bit further and this system would encourage them to hold back because M'Changama and Baxter would be the offensive CM threat. And having Smith up front without having wingers seems odd. It takes our dynamism with our only threat being the CM area so like most team do with Croft and Montano, Baxter and M'Changama would be paired up on. We need to have variety in attack so a threat from midfield and out wide is needed. I'd go with. Bouzanis Wabara M'Voto Byrne Grounds Sutherland (even though I think he's out of his depth he has something to give us) Wes M'Changama Croft Smith Derbyshire Leaving Furman out is tough but it has to be done in my opinion. Everyone says how poor Croft is at taking on a man so why not let him cut inside instead of forcing him to have to run towards the byline to cross it? He could be effective on the left. Edited November 22, 2012 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Croft carnt beat a man to save his life! Neither could David Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Neither could David Beckham. But beckham made up for that with his delivery. What does croft do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticdickovarmy Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I dont understand why Croft is being made a scapgoat to be honest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I dont understand why Croft is being made a scapgoat to be honest? Who said he is? I just said he can't cross or take on a defender. Other than that he is a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStationLatic Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Yeah I agree with the suggested team. I think Croft also play in the central three due to his touch and passing - his weight might be in advantage in the middle too!! We saw something a bit similar in the home draw v Scunthorpe. Derbyshire and Smith started, but Simpson took over Smith's role and Baxter came on playing just off the front two. They rotated a lot (perhaps helped by moving away from a rigid 4-4-2) and we were all over them at the end. We even scored... And then Croft did a Gazza after Simpson had found tonnes of space on the left of the front three - we were 3-4-3 at that point I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticdickovarmy Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Who said he is? I just said he can't cross or take on a defender. Other than that he is a good player. Wasnt in regards to your comments mate, got a load of stick on twitter last 2 saturdays as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsSideOfLife Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Wasnt in regards to your comments mate, got a load of stick on twitter last 2 saturdays as well Yeah mate, I seen that. He gets stick because he can't beat a defender or at least try to beat them. He is a winger that's what they are suppose to do. Beat their man and whip a ball on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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