URGENT - Standard Email for Everyone To Use

[Diego_Sideburns]

As requested by I_C, here is the email I sent to Cllr Bashforth today with a request that everyone sends it from their own email account:

 

Dear Councillor Bashforth,

 

You say that your reason for refusal was not to do with the height of the buildings. However, after the Committee had refused the outline application, you stated that 'bulking' was one of the reasons.

 

You say that it was not match-day traffic you were concerned about, but you told the Committee how you had experienced match-day delay on the B & Q car park. You should have been aware that the match-day scenario had to be discounted because the stadium is already in existence, without your Officer having to remind you.

 

It is appreciated that you and your fellow Councillors cannot be experts in planning and traffic matters. That is why these matters have to be closely scrutinised by professional Officers. Regardless of the fact that the traffic impact on the proposed number of residential units has been found to comply with national criteria and standards, both by experts employed by the Council (on two separate occasions) and by the Highways Agency after seven months' deliberation, the insistence that you and your colleagues know best beggars belief.

 

You say that in this case, if the traffic issue can be resolved, the application could be back before the Committee as early as the 11th December, which you very much hope it is. The 'traffic issue' is your unwillingness to accept the views of the experts. Even if they spell out their findings differently so that you can understand them better, they will still state the same conclusion that the traffic impact of the proposals complies with all requirements

 

I ask you to reflect on the spurious notions raised by Members of the Committee such as:

 

The model prepared by the residents' group, which appeared to be constructed of a plasticine-type product, leading one of your colleagues to say it was reminiscent of 1960s' Russia. This implied that he had concluded that a very substandard type of development would be submitted at the detail stage and therefore he was not prepared to approve the outline application. Yet you allowed this to go unchallenged.

 

Another of your colleagues calculating that the residential units would sell for £200,000 each, leading to £100m profit which he considered to be an excessive level of profit. He seemed to have forgotten that they would not be built free of charge. In fact the Press reported that the construction price for the scheme was £80m when the outline application was submitted to the Council. The point is that the profit element of any development is not a matter for consideration by your Committee. Yet again you allowed this to go unchallenged.

 

Your calculation that 1000 occupants of the residential units would result in 2000 cars and disregard for the calculations by the experts.

 

Your colleague's ignorance about 'Little Wembley' (OAFC's training area) but nonetheless concern about its loss, which was irrelevant. Likewise, regardless of no adverse comment from Sport England, the same colleague expressed her concern about the loss of the indoor sports hall next to the Clayton Arms. These were premises owned by J.W. Lees and have been closed because the Brewery sold the premises to facilitate the redevelopment proposals.

 

Examples of Councillors at the meeting exhibiting their blatent lack of preparedness for the proper consideration of this outline application, were observed by so many members of the public, and this has resulted in the public losing faith not only in Oldham Council, but in local government generally.

 

The Committee disregarded the fact that all of the detail in the proposed development would come back to it for consideration in due course under the terms of the conditions recommended by your Officers. After your efforts to defer further consideration of the application for a third traffic survey failed, you gave the impression that you were determined to delay the project resulting in yet more expense for the Applicant, who has been working towards approval of the project for the past four years.

 

Members of your Committee are stating that if the number of residential units is reduced considerably, they will give the project their approval.

 

The Applicant has repeatedly stated that the project is only viable in its current form, after taking account of concessions made after continuing discussions with all parties. The project has not received adverse comments from the statutory consultees and is recommended for approval by your Officers. I repeat again that it is only an outline application and therefore your Committee will still have the final say on the detail, when submitted in due course.

 

In the meantime your Committee's procrastination has put the project in jeopardy, with the consequential detrimental affect on the regeneration of that part of the Borough and loss of employment opportunities. Not least the future of Oldham Athletic Football Club, for which the Borough is famous world-wide, is seriously in doubt. Likewise the tenancy of the Oldham Rugby League Club is placed in jeopardy. It is generally accepted that successful sporting teams produce more vibrant communities. One only needs to look at towns where football clubs have been allowed to go into decline or go out of existence altogether to see over the precipice on which OAFC is currently teetering. The club's owners will not continue to dig deep into their pockets when their very considerable efforts appear to be constantly rejected, without understandable reasons.

 

The approval of outline consent needs to be resolved as a matter of extreme urgency and I appeal to your Committee to reconsider the outline application in a proper, well-prepared manner at the earliest opportunity.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

______________________________

 

Cllr Bashforth's email address is:

steven.bashforth@oldham.gov.uk

 

The email should be copied to:

roger.hindle@oldham.gov.uk; javid.iqbal@oldham.gov.uk; tony.larkin@oldham.gov.uk; keith.pendlebury@oldham.gov.uk; philip.rogers@oldham.gov.uk; christine.wheeler@oldham.gov.uk; david.r.jones@oldham.gov.uk; andrew.kilburn@oldham.gov.uk; alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk; woolasp@parliament.uk; meacherm@parliament.uk; hodgem@parliament.uk; purnellj@parliament.uk; sutcliffeg@parliament.uk

_________________________________________________

 

 

We need everyone to take five minutes to send the email.

 

We really can make a difference!!!

 

Fill those email boxes!!!!

 

Keep the pressure on!!!!

[mastap]

Is anyone else having trouble sending? I keep getting a "server busy" message!!!

[boboafc]

sent to over 7 of the email address's

[c_ogden99]

Is anyone else having trouble sending? I keep getting a "server busy" message!!!

 

Yh im Getting that aswell

[Takemeanywhere]

As requested by I_C, here is the email I sent to Cllr Bashforth today with a request that everyone sends it from their own email account:

 

Dear Councillor Bashforth,

 

You say that your reason for refusal was not to do with the height of the buildings. However, after the Committee had refused the outline application, you stated that 'bulking' was one of the reasons.

 

You say that it was not match-day traffic you were concerned about, but you told the Committee how you had experienced match-day delay on the B & Q car park. You should have been aware that the match-day scenario had to be discounted because the stadium is already in existence, without your Officer having to remind you.

 

It is appreciated that you and your fellow Councillors cannot be experts in planning and traffic matters. That is why these matters have to be closely scrutinised by professional Officers. Regardless of the fact that the traffic impact on the proposed number of residential units has been found to comply with national criteria and standards, both by experts employed by the Council (on two separate occasions) and by the Highways Agency after seven months' deliberation, the insistence that you and your colleagues know best beggars belief.

 

You say that in this case, if the traffic issue can be resolved, the application could be back before the Committee as early as the 11th December, which you very much hope it is. The 'traffic issue' is your unwillingness to accept the views of the experts. Even if they spell out their findings differently so that you can understand them better, they will still state the same conclusion that the traffic impact of the proposals complies with all requirements

 

I ask you to reflect on the spurious notions raised by Members of the Committee such as:

 

The model prepared by the residents' group, which appeared to be constructed of a plasticine-type product, leading one of your colleagues to say it was reminiscent of 1960s' Russia. This implied that he had concluded that a very substandard type of development would be submitted at the detail stage and therefore he was not prepared to approve the outline application. Yet you allowed this to go unchallenged.

 

Another of your colleagues calculating that the residential units would sell for £200,000 each, leading to £100m profit which he considered to be an excessive level of profit. He seemed to have forgotten that they would not be built free of charge. In fact the Press reported that the construction price for the scheme was £80m when the outline application was submitted to the Council. The point is that the profit element of any development is not a matter for consideration by your Committee. Yet again you allowed this to go unchallenged.

 

Your calculation that 1000 occupants of the residential units would result in 2000 cars and disregard for the calculations by the experts.

 

Your colleague's ignorance about 'Little Wembley' (OAFC's training area) but nonetheless concern about its loss, which was irrelevant. Likewise, regardless of no adverse comment from Sport England, the same colleague expressed her concern about the loss of the indoor sports hall next to the Clayton Arms. These were premises owned by J.W. Lees and have been closed because the Brewery sold the premises to facilitate the redevelopment proposals.

 

Examples of Councillors at the meeting exhibiting their blatent lack of preparedness for the proper consideration of this outline application, were observed by so many members of the public, and this has resulted in the public losing faith not only in Oldham Council, but in local government generally.

 

The Committee disregarded the fact that all of the detail in the proposed development would come back to it for consideration in due course under the terms of the conditions recommended by your Officers. After your efforts to defer further consideration of the application for a third traffic survey failed, you gave the impression that you were determined to delay the project resulting in yet more expense for the Applicant, who has been working towards approval of the project for the past four years.

 

Members of your Committee are stating that if the number of residential units is reduced considerably, they will give the project their approval.

 

The Applicant has repeatedly stated that the project is only viable in its current form, after taking account of concessions made after continuing discussions with all parties. The project has not received adverse comments from the statutory consultees and is recommended for approval by your Officers. I repeat again that it is only an outline application and therefore your Committee will still have the final say on the detail, when submitted in due course.

 

In the meantime your Committee's procrastination has put the project in jeopardy, with the consequential detrimental affect on the regeneration of that part of the Borough and loss of employment opportunities. Not least the future of Oldham Athletic Football Club, for which the Borough is famous world-wide, is seriously in doubt. Likewise the tenancy of the Oldham Rugby League Club is placed in jeopardy. It is generally accepted that successful sporting teams produce more vibrant communities. One only needs to look at towns where football clubs have been allowed to go into decline or go out of existence altogether to see over the precipice on which OAFC is currently teetering. The club's owners will not continue to dig deep into their pockets when their very considerable efforts appear to be constantly rejected, without understandable reasons.

 

The approval of outline consent needs to be resolved as a matter of extreme urgency and I appeal to your Committee to reconsider the outline application in a proper, well-prepared manner at the earliest opportunity.

 

Yours faithfully,

______________________________

 

Cllr Bashforth's email address is:

steven.bashforth@oldham.gov.uk

 

The email should be copied to:

roger.hindle@oldham.gov.uk; javid.iqbal@oldham.gov.uk; tony.larkin@oldham.gov.uk; keith.pendlebury@oldham.gov.uk; philip.rogers@oldham.gov.uk; christine.wheeler@oldham.gov.uk; david.r.jones@oldham.gov.uk; andrew.kilburn@oldham.gov.uk; alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk; woolasp@parliament.uk; meacherm@parliament.uk; hodgem@parliament.uk; purnellj@parliament.uk; sutcliffeg@parliament.uk

_________________________________________________

 

I have sent the email minus the paragraph in bold. The reason being that it wasn't Cllr Bashforth who told the anecdote about being stuck on B&Q carpark on a Saturday afternoon. I'm fairly certain that it was Cllr Pendlebury but it certainly wasn't Bashforth. Also, he did point out (after an iterjection from Geoff Willerton) that the match day scenario would have to be discounted.

 

Apart from that, it is a fantastic letter and I have sent it to all of the people listed above.

[Guest amoweb]

I have sent the email minus the paragraph in bold. The reason being that it wasn't Cllr Bashforth who told the anecdote about being stuck on B&Q carpark on a Saturday afternoon. I'm fairly certain that it was Cllr Pendlebury but it certainly wasn't Bashforth. Also, he did point out (after an iterjection from Geoff Willerton) that the match day scenario would have to be discounted.

 

Apart from that, it is a fantastic letter and I have sent it to all of the people listed above.

 

 

Those of you that are getting server busy and are using Hotmai;, it seems that Hotmail's server is undergoing maintainence

[boboafc]

just recived this email

 

 

Dear All,

 

Thank you for your emails which all seem to be very similar and so I will reply to all at the same time, I am having to reply on one my personal email address as the council server is undergoing maintenance at the moment and it is only allowing me to receive messages and not to return them..

 

In Oldham, as in the rest of England, the final decision an most planning applications is made by a committee of elected councillors taken from across the political spectrum and from all walks of life. In Oldham, again as in many other local authorities, none of the councillors on the committee are experts in planning or traffic engineering and most are not career politicians and have full time jobs as well as their council work. I myself am an electrical engineer in the construction industry.

 

When the committee meets it is asked to consider a report prepared by professional officers who will recommend acceptance or refusal and it is then up to the committee to question officers how they have arrived at their recommendation. Because the committee are not experts, to do this they need a report to be as clear and concise as possible. In this case I, 6 other members of the committee, did not feel that the traffic report pertaining the the 693 apartments and hotel etc showed how the surrounding roads would cope with the obvious increase in traffic that would occur, especially in am and pm peak times. I have attached a copy of the report for your information. I have no issue with match day traffic at all, there has always been difficulties on match day and always will be, it is the rest of the time I was worried about. As someone who has lived in Royton most of my life, I know, and experience daily traffic increasing congestion on Broadway from the Elk Mill to Shaw Road End, Chadderton Way, Featherstall Road North and Oldham/Rochdale Road indeed at the Royton Community Council meeting last Monday people expressed concerns about increasing traffic in the centre of Royton and fears about difficulties crossing the road. Royton town centre has the busiest pedestrian crossing in the borough and Shaw Road End is amongst the busiest junctions in Greater Manchester. I did not feel that the traffic report addressed these existing problems and the future impact of the development and for that reason I voted to refuse. With regards to the possibility of key workers living in these properties, only a about 140 (will check that) would be made available for key workers and then it would depend upon how much the properties are and what level of discount could be given. Just as importantly would these people want to live in a large apartment development with no play areas for children?

 

I say again that my reason to refuse was my worries about the traffic issues, and I stated this as a reason at the close of the meeting, but as other members of the committee had given other reasons I was obliged to state them also. For the reasons why they came their own conclusions I am sure they will respond to you directly.

 

As I have said, It is not uncommon for large applications like this to go through the planning process more that once as concerns are resolved and compromises made. I hope now that the applicant deals with the concerns around the traffic report and re-submits the application as soon as possible (it could come back as early as December 11th) and then they should be able to go ahead with their plans.

 

It is very regrettable that the directors instead of getting on with resolving the committee's concerns, instead have taken advantage of the fans loyalty and love of the club and used them to launch a quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack on myself in particular, which has lead to both myself and family being subjected to the most appalling abuse. I am quite prepared to accept criticism in my role as ward councillor and as a member and chair of the planning committee, but the attacks on me go far beyond criticism and have left me wondering if its worth carrying on. I was physically threatened last night and am now fearful of being out on the streets.

 

I hope this goes someway to answering you questions, but I am happy to continue answer any further questions you may have. I would just ask that you allow me some time to get back to you as I am replying to every reasonable email I receive and please reply via my council email address

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Bob - I'm assuming that is from Councillor Bashforth.

 

I hope that anyone receiving that would point out that we are not doing this because of directives from OAFC or its employees. We are doing it because we can see for ourselves that a grave injustice occurred on Wednesday night. We don't need Alan Hardy or anyone else at OAFC to tell us that.

 

We have written emails and letters because we care about proper democratic process. We arranged the March ourselves and the Club only found out about it because we told them. Similarly, any further action will be co-ordinated and decided-upon by the fans and not because of instruction from The Club or its Directors.

 

We are not puppets.

 

I would also tell him that you don't condone violence or threats made to him and his family and would hope that he has contacted the Police to report such matters so that they can be dealt with and investigated properly.

[lincoln_latic]

Just seen this and realised it's exactly the same as the one I just posted form Cllr Bashforth. I actually (stupidly) thought it was a personal response.

 

Mods, please feel free to delete/merge my post as it is just a duplicate of this one.

[boboafc]

just sent him a new email with this added

I would also tell you that i don't condone violence or threats made to you and your family and would hope that you have contacted the Police to report such matters so that they can be dealt with and investigated properly

Edited November 18, 2007 by boboafc

[Inspiral_Carpet]

just sent him a new email with this added

 

 

That won't really make sense Bob.

 

Try to recall it and instead say:-

 

I don't condone violence or threats made to you or your family and would hope that you have contacted the Police to report such matters so that they can be dealt with and investigated properly.

[dave_ragg1984]

It is very regrettable that the directors instead of getting on with resolving the committee's concerns, instead have taken advantage of the fans loyalty and love of the club and used them to launch a quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack on myself in particular, which has lead to both myself and family being subjected to the most appalling abuse. I am quite prepared to accept criticism in my role as ward councillor and as a member and chair of the planning committee, but the attacks on me go far beyond criticism and have left me wondering if its worth carrying on. I was physically threatened last night and am now fearful of being out on the streets.

 

I receiverd that reply. Is he saying that the club have asked fans to launch vicious attacks on him? As far as I am concerned they haven't. Surely he cannot go round saying that the club are asking fans to launch a "quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack"on him?

[Lags]

my reply to bash the trash.

 

 

Dear Councillor Bashforth,

 

Firstly it saddens me that you report personal abuse against yourself and your family and this is wholly wrong and I for one hope this ceases herewith and the culprits dealt with accordingly.

 

I along with many others in that chamber that night when this awful decision was taken felt that you tried to sway other members of the committee into refusing this second application. For reason best known by yourself. Yes I know you passed the first application without any sign of objection, however you also knew without the mechanisms in the second application to pay for it, then it wouldn't be built.

 

I find your alleged concerns regarding traffic none founded. All the accepted methods in predicting future traffic were used to provide yourself with a reasoned argument to find in favour. Sure on any given day of the year we all experience traffic hold ups when the next day we don't in the same place. Yet you use your experiences when this very thing as occurred to yourself whilst driving through this area to qualify your mistake or excuse!.

 

Your highly qualified traffic officer (this is your opinion) Les Harrison not once but twice upon a councillor asking him to go over the report again told you and the rest of the committee he found no reason to deny this application on the grounds of traffic. You sir even tried to stop Les Harrison the ability to stress home this point by trying to suppress a response a second time unless he could add anything more to his first speech backing the application and the reports credibility.

 

Lastly one of your committee colleagues has replied to an email stating had he been involved with the residents group to the level you had, then he would have explained his interest and left the room. Why sir did you not feel you should do that too?

 

Maybe you felt you couldn't influence the vote from outside or maybe you feel you know better then Les Harrison to deliver the reports findings. Perhaps next time I need some plans drawing up to re-wire my home I should contact Les Harrison and not you. I mean you're only an Electrical Engineer apteral!

 

Come on Steven, all is not lost yet, you can do the right thing still.

[Takemeanywhere]

I have received an identical reply and I have just responded as follows:

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for responding so quickly to my email of this afternoon. I note that you are now using a standard response to emails received but I do not blame you for this, given the deluge of correspondence that you will surely be receiving.

 

I just want to make a couple of points in relation to your reply. Firstly, I am appalled by the news that you and your family are being subjected to threats and abuse. No reasonable citizen would condone such behaviour and I'm sure that you are aware that the majority of Latics fans are reasonable citizens. The minority always let us down.

 

Secondly, I must point out that I did not send my original email due to any pressure or encouragement from anyone at Oldham Athletic (or anywhere else, for that matter). I was present at the meeting on Wednesday and I was not only outraged at the decision but more than a little bemused that the discussions could have been allowed to take such a negative and at times perplexing turn. Some of the points made and questions asked suggested that those on the committee had not even taken the time to fully avail themselves of the plans. I'm sure that you are aware of the march that took place yesterday. That too was organised by the fans and not the club and I would suggest that you should reconsider the notion that the directors of the club are, in any way, taking advantage of the fans.

 

I don't wish to repeat the points made in my previous email, so I will simply finish by saying that I hope that the travesty of Wednesday night will be made right when next the plans for Boundary Park are put before you and your colleagues.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited November 18, 2007 by Takemeanywhere

[Inspiral_Carpet]

I receiverd that reply. Is he saying that the club have asked fans to launch vicious attacks on him? As far as I am concerned they haven't. Surely he cannot go round saying that the club are asking fans to launch a "quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack"on him?

 

 

Dave - You may want to send a copy of that to Alan Hardy.

 

It really does appear that Councillor Bashforth is accusing the Club's Officials of orchestrating a hate campaign. Maybe OAFC's Legal team may have a view on that?

[dave_ragg1984]

Dave - You may want to send a copy of that to Alan Hardy.

 

It really does appear that Councillor Bashforth is accusing the Club's Officials of orchestrating a hate campaign. Maybe OAFC's Legal team may have a view on that?

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. Will forward it later tonight.

[Guest oa_exile]

I was thinking the same thing. Will forward it later tonight.

 

Dave , i am sure Alan is swamped with e mails , indeed his inbox is probably on meltdown.

You may want to highlight that it is for his Urgent Attention as i agree he needs to see this.

 

Cheers Exile

[laticsmarra]

Email to Mr Bashforth and the suggested circulation list

 

Dear Mr Bashforth

 

First I must say that any abuse directed to you, your colleagues, or your family is regrettable and needs to be dealt with by the authorities.

 

Rest assured that the momentum for the fans protests is not from Alan Hardy, or Simon Corney, but from your council's constituents, who pay substantially increasing proportions of their income to live in this crumbling borough. We all have our own minds and personally myself, my family and most Latics fans are not prone to dash off to demonstrate on the streets at a whim.

 

The proposals were one of the largest investment opportunities to be put to a council committee in the last 10 years.You cannot hide behind the "we are only laymen" stance to cover up the unpreparedness of some of your colleagues for the meeting. You all put yourselves forward at elections as citizens capable of taking the big decisions. This is the 3rd incident that I personally have had an interest in, the other 2 being on educational issues, where the council and their officers have been out of their depth.

 

Unfortunately, the traffic problems around Broadway/Shaw Road End are exaggerated at the moment because of significant road works in Royton. These are making things much worse at the moment and are not representative of the normal traffic flows,you will not surprisingly have had complaints from Royton residents recently.

 

We are in a situation where significant outside investment is being offered to the borough and you and your councillors are indeed demonstrating that the borough is run by amateurs, incapable of making properly considered decisions on the evidence presented.

 

The events of the last week have also highlighted the embarrassment that many Oldhamers are feelling about living in a borough with no facilities to attract the outsider. This is a wider issue and you and your fellow councillors need to address this urgently. Lets not hide behind whatever form of political correctness is convenient, Oldham is a decaying embarrasment and yesterday's march was a cry for help to a floundering council,to help restore a project which would bring some pride back into Oldham.

 

Please find a way to get the project back on track without delay, time is of the essence and as far as I am aware there isn't a queue of outside agencies waiting to invest £80m in the borough.

[laticsrblue]

Surely this is libellous against all of the Latics directors.

 

It is very regrettable that the directors instead of getting on with resolving the committee's concerns, instead have taken advantage of the fans loyalty and love of the club and used them to launch a quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack on myself in particular, which has lead to both myself and family being subjected to the most appalling abuse."

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Surely this is libellous against all of the Latics directors.

 

It is very regrettable that the directors instead of getting on with resolving the committee's concerns, instead have taken advantage of the fans loyalty and love of the club and used them to launch a quite vicious and unwarranted personal attack on myself in particular, which has lead to both myself and family being subjected to the most appalling abuse."

 

 

I can confirm that the Directors of OAFC are aware of this allegation as several people have raised it with them.

 

It is in their hands now so let's see what happens.

[boboafc]

recived this email from michael meachers pa

Thank you for your email which I will bring to Michael Meacher's attention.

 

Regards,

 

Monica Masson

PA

[garcon]

With the ground and all the residents in his constituency, I suspect Mr Meacher is thinking very carefully before saying anything publicly. He may well be bringing influence to bear behind the scenes though, so don't be too harsh on him.

[beag_teeets]

I had the same reply from Meachers lacky, I forgot to put a title to the email that I sent to the mailing list, luckily his lacky put one in her mass reply to me.