HarryBosch Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I still find it strange that the defence in particular are getting stick and decribed as worrying. We aren't shipping loads of goals, the opposition are not having loads of attempts on goal and we dont look like conceeding loads. They decided pre-season that the defence was :censored: & they won't deviate from that no matter how few goals we concede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 That's crazy behaviour from Lomax. Must have been years of built up jealousy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 The problem with this quote is that you can't see the irony in it. Too clever for your own good you kid, wasted on here that level of intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I dont see much constructiive critisism on this thread just negativity yet again to yet another successful product from Tony Philiskirks youth setup. If you seriously believe that Tarky has not significantly stepped up this season you are clearly in a small minority as a look at the MOM polls so far will show. I still find it strange that the defence in particular are getting stick and decribed as worrying. We aren't shipping loads of goals, the opposition are not having loads of attempts on goal and we dont look like conceeding loads. What we have got is a way of playing that is quite open and whilst that sometimes leaves us prone more on the break. We are a relatively structured unit from a defensive point of view. We have also got a relatively young team and especially young defence and a mixture of inexperience and naivety will see us concede a few unnecessary goals. But, when you look at the goals conceeded, with the exception of the keeper in the last 2 games, none can be put down to any of the back 5. I'd class most of the goals conceeded as "team" goals rather than individual errors and that surely is a sign that individuals are not letting us down. I think people are concerned because we have lost the height of JYM but of the goals conceeded to date how many have been to headers? With our current style of play we are maybe more likely to concede than we would if we played as we did under PD, but how many would sacrifice our attacking potency for greater defensive tightness. Not me for sure. Who and where are all these 'successful' youth products? Taylor, Eardley, can't think of too many more. Don't think anyone is saying Tarkowski hasn't stepped up performance wise this season, merely that his career to date doesn't yet justify the plaudits some are giving him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Who and where are all these 'successful' youth products? Taylor, Eardley, can't think of too many more. Don't think anyone is saying Tarkowski hasn't stepped up performance wise this season, merely that his career to date doesn't yet justify the plaudits some are giving him. David Eyres was in non league until aged 26, wonder what they thought of him when he was Tarkys age ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Who and where are all these 'successful' youth products? Taylor, Eardley, can't think of too many more. Don't think anyone is saying Tarkowski hasn't stepped up performance wise this season, merely that his career to date doesn't yet justify the plaudits some are giving him. How far do you want to go back? Shall we say last 10 =12 years that TP has been here? Off the top of my head and besides the 2 you mention, Neal Trotman (PNE when in the Championship) Tom Eaves (sold for £300K to Bolton) Scott Vernon (Aberdeen) Will Haining (Scots Prem) Mark Teirney (Norwich) Andy Hughes (Reading, Leeds etc in the Champ) Danny Philliskirk (Chelsea) , Scott Spencer (Everton) MICAH RICHARDS, Scott Vernon (Aberdeen) Tarky. We've also turned down £400K for Dave Mellor and Carl Winchester 2 years ago. Theres a dozen names for you. You've then have several other players that have come through who haven't either stepped up and gone on to beigger things but have still had or having a decent career, the likes of Smalley and Alexandra. The plaudit that Tarky is getting is that people are acknowledging and seeing the potential that he could potentially play at a higher level. At the end of the day he is still only 20. I think you are acknowledging that he has stepped up this season so accept that he has improved. IF he carries on he could take a step up to the next level to progress his career. He fails to keep his current levels up and he obviously wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Who and where are all these 'successful' youth products? Taylor, Eardley, can't think of too many more. Don't think anyone is saying Tarkowski hasn't stepped up performance wise this season, merely that his career to date doesn't yet justify the plaudits some are giving him. Tierney's a good example of a player who many (including a manager) thought wouldn't make it above league 1 and few suggested his move to league 2 was an error. In fact I'd suggest (without checking) that he got far more scathing criticisms, but ended in the top league and is now playing at the same level as Eardley and Taylor. Mind you less than a year ago he played against a player who 3 years earlier was regarded as a failure who should be shipped out to a lower league; which goes to show that predicting how a player might develop in the future is a little tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Tierney's a good example of a player who many (including a manager) thought wouldn't make it above league 1 and few suggested his move to league 2 was an error. In fact I'd suggest (without checking) that he got far more scathing criticisms, but ended in the top league and is now playing at the same level as Eardley and Taylor. Mind you less than a year ago he played against a player who 3 years earlier was regarded as a failure who should be shipped out to a lower league; which goes to show that predicting how a player might develop in the future is a little tricky. True, many in the game thought Medi Abalimba would become a world beater when he was 16 at Derby, soon shipped out of the Latics, he's now at Corby Town. Edited August 27, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Derby stick five past Brentford. Posh stick six past Reading. Does suggest our defence isn't all that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 My we're a touchy bunch aren't we... Nobody has said that Tarkowski hasn't shown signs of.improvement this year and I definitely haven't implied that he shouldn't be playing. But then I guess that is a hallmark of talking bollocks; given no leg to stand on you have to manufacture the alternative argument to make yours more convincing. Politicians do it all the time, I just hadn't expected to see it on OWTB. At the moment Tarkowski is a decent footballing centrehalf who is a pretty average defender prone to moments of brain freeze and in need of a touch more aerial prowess. None of that is to say that he is useless, and it doesn't mean that he had no hope of improving to be a good pro over many years. What he isn't is outstanding, Premier League quality or player of the year in waiting. People who see that are looking at his performances with their minds made up - they want him to do well so every positive is magnified tenfold whereas mistakes are brushed away. Watch him objectively and stop trying to demonise anyone who has a more critical opinion. We all want himto succeed, but he'll have a better career by working out his faults rather than listening to sycophantic drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 .....but you win the player of the year by being the the best player right? And to date; even including pre-season, he's been our best player. So, he is on course in that regard no? Anyway, as you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 My we're a touchy bunch aren't we... Nobody has said that Tarkowski hasn't shown signs of.improvement this year and I definitely haven't implied that he shouldn't be playing. But then I guess that is a hallmark of talking bollocks; given no leg to stand on you have to manufacture the alternative argument to make yours more convincing. Politicians do it all the time, I just hadn't expected to see it on OWTB. At the moment Tarkowski is a decent footballing centrehalf who is a pretty average defender prone to moments of brain freeze and in need of a touch more aerial prowess. None of that is to say that he is useless, and it doesn't mean that he had no hope of improving to be a good pro over many years. What he isn't is outstanding, Premier League quality or player of the year in waiting. People who see that are looking at his performances with their minds made up - they want him to do well so every positive is magnified tenfold whereas mistakes are brushed away. Watch him objectively and stop trying to demonise anyone who has a more critical opinion. We all want himto succeed, but he'll have a better career by working out his faults rather than listening to sycophantic drivel. If you examine any player closely you will find mistakes, just look at Joe Hart for example, that applies at any level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 My we're a touchy bunch aren't we... Nobody has said that Tarkowski hasn't shown signs of.improvement this year and I definitely haven't implied that he shouldn't be playing. But then I guess that is a hallmark of talking bollocks; given no leg to stand on you have to manufacture the alternative argument to make yours more convincing. Politicians do it all the time, I just hadn't expected to see it on OWTB. At the moment Tarkowski is a decent footballing centrehalf who is a pretty average defender prone to moments of brain freeze and in need of a touch more aerial prowess. None of that is to say that he is useless, and it doesn't mean that he had no hope of improving to be a good pro over many years. What he isn't is outstanding, Premier League quality or player of the year in waiting. People who see that are looking at his performances with their minds made up - they want him to do well so every positive is magnified tenfold whereas mistakes are brushed away. Watch him objectively and stop trying to demonise anyone who has a more critical opinion. We all want himto succeed, but he'll have a better career by working out his faults rather than listening to sycophantic drivel. The double straw man approach. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 What he isn't is outstanding, Premier League quality or player of the year in waiting. People who see that are looking at his performances with their minds made up . If we already rated him are you saying we need to pretend he's :censored: for a few weeks in order to then have a valid opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 .....but you win the player of the year by being the the best player right? And to date; even including pre-season, he's been our best player. So, he is on course in that regard no? Anyway, as you were. Jesus : We've not even left August yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He remains a work in progress, but for those who are talking of him playing at many levels higher......remember how good Fitz Hall was, and assess the level he reached in his career!! Let me get the right. To show us that you dont think Tarky will go on to play one or two divisions higher, you want us to take the example of an ex Latics player who went on to play all his career one and two divisions higher? Bet you dont win many arguements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Let me get the right. To show us that you dont think Tarky will go on to play one or two divisions higher, you want us to take the example of an ex Latics player who went on to play all his career one and two divisions higher? Bet you dont win many arguements. . Call me crazy but I think he's pointing out that Fitz Hall was quite a lot better than Tarkowski and yet struggled to establish a Premiership career. So by default the inferior Tarkowski is probably not a Premier League player... I'll bet you win all the arguments when you fail to grasp what the other side are on about. Or did you and just chose to ignore the implied contrast between the abilities of the two players? Either way, bravo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 What I saw on Saturday in the second half was not that of an average defender he didn't let Hughes get a kick infact he completely dominated him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Let me get the right. To show us that you dont think Tarky will go on to play one or two divisions higher, you want us to take the example of an ex Latics player who went on to play all his career one and two divisions higher? Bet you dont win many arguements. It's worth remembering Fitz Hall was plying his trade at an older age than Tarky about 4 divisions lower at Chesham, if Latics hadn't had the connections he might have remained in non league to this day. Edited August 28, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 My we're a touchy bunch aren't we... Nobody has said that Tarkowski hasn't shown signs of.improvement this year and I definitely haven't implied that he shouldn't be playing. But then I guess that is a hallmark of talking bollocks; given no leg to stand on you have to manufacture the alternative argument to make yours more convincing. Politicians do it all the time, I just hadn't expected to see it on OWTB. At the moment Tarkowski is a decent footballing centrehalf who is a pretty average defender prone to moments of brain freeze and in need of a touch more aerial prowess. None of that is to say that he is useless, and it doesn't mean that he had no hope of improving to be a good pro over many years. What he isn't is outstanding, Premier League quality or player of the year in waiting. People who see that are looking at his performances with their minds made up - they want him to do well so every positive is magnified tenfold whereas mistakes are brushed away. Watch him objectively and stop trying to demonise anyone who has a more critical opinion. We all want himto succeed, but he'll have a better career by working out his faults rather than listening to sycophantic drivel. So you want us to pick a player whose defensive flaws will cost us in the long run? :censored:ing Fifth Columnist we've here, bring out the waterboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 So you want us to pick a player whose defensive flaws will cost us in the long run? :censored:ing Fifth Columnist we've here, bring out the waterboard When that player is the best we have and showing signs of improvement then why not. What that doesn't make him is a Premier League quality footballer or a quality player to be enjoyed while we are blessed with his presence. Taylor, Eardley, Fitz Hall, Clint Hill, Paul Murray, Chris Armstrong... All better players in their respective positions yet how many Premiership appearances do they have between them? Tarkowski was still running underneath the ball towards the end of last year and some on here have him as player of the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 What I saw on Saturday in the second half was not that of an average defender he didn't let Hughes get a kick infact he completely dominated him. Wow, he marked a 37yo out of the game, that'll get the scouts flocking down Sheepfoot Lane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wow, he marked a 37yo out of the game, that'll get the scouts flocking down Sheepfoot Lane! From what I saw he wasn't designated to mark anyone man to man, didn't the 37 year old speed past Grounds to win a penalty ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wow, he marked a 37yo out of the game, that'll get the scouts flocking down Sheepfoot Lane! A 37 year old who many on here were praying came back here not so long ago. You can only play what's put in front of you and on Saturday in the second half I thought he was excellent. I haven't said anything about him going onto captain England or anything. I was responding to a comment that he's an average defender Saturday he was way above average on Saturday. Only time will tell how far he goes though more performances like that and the scouts will start looking at him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 There are many ordinary centre backs in the Championship, Tarkowski is better than ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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