beag_teeets Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Swings and roundabouts, what goes up must come down, how about Swansea, they had a period of success, nearly won Div1 (the proper one) then collapsed big style and are now on the way back up, same as Bristol, nearly in the Prem and Wolves are a big club again, Hull might get in the prem, Boro, Sunderland...etc..etc.. No one has a right to be a big club, but from small acorns big oak trees can grow. In the 20-odd years I have been following latics we have been promoted once and relegated twice, we have been crap more than we have been good but I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked United when I was a kid. I didn't, for several stupid reasons I picked Latics and gotta stick by that decision till I die. Before I die I fully expect to experience at least one more promotion and probably at least one relegation, a few decent cup runs and an absolute cup nightmare where we are knocked out of the FA cup by a non-league side full of butchers and postmen. Don't take it so seriously corp, chill out, its only a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I suspect the only factor may be (and this is PURE conjecture) that we might see a slight delay in the immediate term while TTA find a developer who meets their valuation of the residential plot. I would still a say there would be little delay. At the moment devolpers have lots of money to spend and there is a shortage of land. I think if we were going to sell it off in 2 years then we may have more of a problem. At the end of the day developers need to build houses or they won't have a business. So I think our valuation will be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Swings and roundabouts, what goes up must come down, how about Swansea, they had a period of success, nearly won Div1 (the proper one) then collapsed big style and are now on the way back up, same as Bristol, nearly in the Prem and Wolves are a big club again, Hull might get in the prem, Boro, Sunderland...etc..etc.. No one has a right to be a big club, but from small acorns big oak trees can grow. In the 20-odd years I have been following latics we have been promoted once and relegated twice, we have been crap more than we have been good but I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked United when I was a kid. I didn't, for several stupid reasons I picked Latics and gotta stick by that decision till I die. Before I die I fully expect to experience at least one more promotion and probably at least one relegation, a few decent cup runs and an absolute cup nightmare where we are knocked out of the FA cup by a non-league side full of butchers and postmen. Don't take it so seriously corp, chill out, its only a game. I think you fail to realise that times have changed in football over the years you've been watching. The failure of this club to cope with those changes, and thus well position itself to take maximum advantage of those changes (as some similar clubs have managed to), heightens the odds against our ability to overcome our current predicament. Small acorns do not grow at all when they are deprived of nutrition. Little nutrition comes the way of small acorns in football nowadays unless they're very clever or lucky acorns. As for taking it seriously, I'm not the one who gets shirty when the facts are laid bare. Edited April 3, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 That's all palpably true Corporal. It's precisely what TTA have identified too. Hence their plan to meet the realities of modern football - you must have a facility capable of earning money every day of the week, every week of the year. I agree it's frustrating in the interim, particularly when time and money spent on this future vision could perhaps otherwise be spent on the product on the park - and stem the flow of bored fans away from games. (It's not as if TTA have completely abandoned that side of things ... they recognise the importance of at least a respectable stab at going up and the absolute necessity of not going down). But I'm optimistic for the future. Optimistic enough to stomach the upheaval of the next two or three seasons. I just hope TTA stick with it long enough to see the dwindling crowds recover to something viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I think you fail to realise that times have changed in football over the years you've been watching. The failure of this club to cope with those changes, and thus well position itself to take maximum advantage of those changes (as some similar clubs have managed to), heightens the odds against our ability to overcome our current predicament. Small acorns do not grow at all when they are deprived of nutrition. Little nutrition comes the way of small acorns in football nowadays unless they're very clever or lucky acorns. As for taking it seriously, I'm not the one who gets shirty when the facts are laid bare. I suppose its a good job our acorn has some money behind it then. Money that can and will be spent in the summer. Meaning our acorn may well bloom next season. Bloody latics fans, such a fickle bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Swings and roundabouts, what goes up must come down, how about Swansea, they had a period of success, nearly won Div1 (the proper one) then collapsed big style and are now on the way back up, same as Bristol, nearly in the Prem and Wolves are a big club again, Hull might get in the prem, Boro, Sunderland...etc..etc.. No one has a right to be a big club, but from small acorns big oak trees can grow. In the 20-odd years I have been following latics we have been promoted once and relegated twice, we have been crap more than we have been good but I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked United when I was a kid. I didn't, for several stupid reasons I picked Latics and gotta stick by that decision till I die. Before I die I fully expect to experience at least one more promotion and probably at least one relegation, a few decent cup runs and an absolute cup nightmare where we are knocked out of the FA cup by a non-league side full of butchers and postmen. Don't take it so seriously corp, chill out, its only a game. Peace out man! Liked your post above.....especially about "I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked wankers".... I had a text conversation on Saturday night with my ex who is a closet Red scummer (part of the reason she's an ex) but is a Wrexham fan. She goes home and away....has done for years but still has this Red Scum part to her. So I took the opportunity on Saturday to rub in the salt. She admitted how she couldn't give a about the Red Scum beating Villa and that the reality of dropping out of the league and possibly playing the likes of Stalybridge (if they go up) was hitting home. Called it one her lowest points in her life. If we think we have it bad, we've got it nothing like Wrexham have......you choose you club (or more likely, the club gets a hold of you as Latics have with me) and you're destined for habitual unhappiness in some cases. With that hope of some, limited, success. CJ can spout Colchester, Scunny etc and watch them rise and fall in the circle of football. It's been going on since man first kicked a ball. Bradford.....up and away, then down, down, down. Swindon. Notts County. Wigan will soon be returning to parity once their bubble bursts....might be this season, probably next. Our turn to rise again might come. I for one don't agree our natural position is this level.....I think it's a struggling team in the next level up. I want us up and out of this division.....but we've no right to it. Neither have Swansea and Donny but it's obvious why they're up there and we're not. Only way we'll do a 1 season wonder is under Chris Moore tactics. No-one wants that.... (EDIT: Actually, some do want that...I regularly argue with one mate who exactly wants that, just not the repercussions after it....well, sorry, that's not the way to go.) .......So it's build, build, build gradually. And if you've not got the stomach....then the fickle lot walk away (as have done.) Until Everton etc next comes around again. I've not much time for those who can't stomach our darker days. Edited April 3, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Peace out man! Liked your post above.....especially about "I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked wankers".... I had a text conversation on Saturday night with my ex who is a closet Red scummer (part of the reason she's an ex) but is a Wrexham fan. She goes home and away....has done for years but still has this Red Scum part to her. So I took the opportunity on Saturday to rub in the salt. She admitted how she couldn't give a about the Red Scum beating Villa and that the reality of dropping out of the league and possibly playing the likes of Stalybridge (if they go up) was hitting home. Called it one her lowest points in her life. If we think we have it bad, we've got it nothing like Wrexham have......you choose you club (or more likely, the club gets a hold of you as Latics have with me) and you're destined for habitual unhappiness in some cases. With that hope of some, limited, success. CJ can spout Colchester, Scunny etc and watch them rise and fall in the circle of football. It's been going on since man first kicked a ball. Bradford.....up and away, then down, down, down. Swindon. Notts County. Wigan will soon be returning to parity once their bubble bursts....might be this season, probably next. Our turn to rise again might come. I for one don't agree our natural position is this level.....I think it's a struggling team in the next level up. I want us up and out of this division.....but we've no right to it. Neither have Swansea and Donny but it's obvious why they're up there and we're not. Only way we'll do a 1 season wonder is under Chris Moore tactics. No-one wants that.... (EDIT: Actually, some do want that...I regularly argue with one mate who exactly wants that, just not the repercussions after it....well, sorry, that's not the way to go.) .......So it's build, build, build gradually. And if you've not got the stomach....then the fickle lot walk away (as have done.) Until Everton etc next comes around again. I've not much time for those who can't stomach our darker days. me! I've read one of your posts and I agree with absoloutely everyting you say! Nurse the screens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 me! I've read one of your posts and I agree with absoloutely everyting you say! Nurse the screens Unless it applies to early Round FA Cup games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Unless it applies to early Round FA Cup games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I think you fail to realise that times have changed in football over the years you've been watching. The failure of this club to cope with those changes, and thus well position itself to take maximum advantage of those changes (as some similar clubs have managed to), heightens the odds against our ability to overcome our current predicament. Small acorns do not grow at all when they are deprived of nutrition. Little nutrition comes the way of small acorns in football nowadays unless they're very clever or lucky acorns. As for taking it seriously, I'm not the one who gets shirty when the facts are laid bare. Aye lad, when I were a lad they were proper footballers, real men wi' real boots on, none of this la di daa modern rubbish, hamstrings and metatarsals, diets? diets? It were a raw egg wi sherry in for breakfast and a pie at half time or you were a proper nonce, and you couldn't see the pitch for t'smoke and that were just from the players woodbines not the chimneys from t'mills. Keepers didn't need gloves in my day, they didn't feel the cold cos they had a proper woollen jumper, itchy wool too, not this lambswool nonsense like that lad in pink were wearing in t'Huddersfield end. Worlds gone soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I suppose its a good job our acorn has some money behind it then. Money that can and will be spent in the summer. Meaning our acorn may well bloom next season. Bloody latics fans, such a fickle bunch. You're on dodgy ground when you accuse people who have been watching regularly for more years than you've been on the planet of fickleness. As for the rest, haven't we said the same thing many times before? I suspect that we'll be saying it all again in twelve months time. Not least because the diehards have accepted what, reading between the lines, the club privately now believes. Which is, as you put it, 'we have found our level.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Aye lad, when I were a lad they were proper footballers, real men wi' real boots on, none of this la di daa modern rubbish, hamstrings and metatarsals, diets? diets? It were a raw egg wi sherry in for breakfast and a pie at half time or you were a proper nonce, and you couldn't see the pitch for t'smoke and that were just from the players woodbines not the chimneys from t'mills. Keepers didn't need gloves in my day, they didn't feel the cold cos they had a proper woollen jumper, itchy wool too, not this lambswool nonsense like that lad in pink were wearing in t'Huddersfield end. Worlds gone soft. Yes, yes-but nothing at all to do with anything I've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMO Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I suppose its a good job our acorn has some money behind it then. Money that can and will be spent in the summer. Meaning our acorn may well bloom next season. Bloody latics fans, such a fickle bunch. What is fickle about this discussion???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Peace out man! Liked your post above.....especially about "I don't moan about it, just accept that if I wanted to support a successful team I should have picked wankers".... .......So it's build, build, build gradually. And if you've not got the stomach....then the fickle lot walk away (as have done.) Until Everton etc next comes around again. I've not much time for those who can't stomach our darker days. Talk about missing the point. Or did I miss the decree that stated that football has ceased to be a competitive game, with success restricted to 'wankers,' and the rest of us condemned to following a pursuit no more challenging than knitting or flower pressing? Holier-than-thouness in relation to other fans is a dead-end too. Not least because it isn't the fickle who are walking away but a section of the hardcore that prevented the club declining further still over the past dozen years. Edited April 3, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) What is fickle about this discussion???? Nothing. Unless you're one of the chosen that is. Edited April 3, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 You're on dodgy ground when you accuse people who have been watching regularly for more years than you've been on the planet of fickleness. Aye , so watch it S_W "The Yoof of today ........ clueless" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) CJ can spout Colchester, Scunny etc and watch them rise and fall in the circle of football. It's been going on since man first kicked a ball. Bradford.....up and away, then down, down, down. Swindon. Notts County. Wigan will soon be returning to parity once their bubble bursts....might be this season, probably next. Our turn to rise again might come. I for one don't agree our natural position is this level.....I think it's a struggling team in the next level up. I want us up and out of this division.....but we've no right to it. Neither have Swansea and Donny but it's obvious why they're up there and we're not. Only way we'll do a 1 season wonder is under Chris Moore tactics. No-one wants that.... (EDIT: Actually, some do want that...I regularly argue with one mate who exactly wants that, just not the repercussions after it....well, sorry, that's not the way to go.) The point is that whether or not we can, in our diminished state as a club, survive at a higher level can only be put to the test if we actually achieve promotion. Presenting everything in terms of 'either this or Chris Moore again' is a red herring too. Have all promoted clubs of our size or smaller undergone a Chris Moore-style implosion? Edited April 3, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Talk about missing the point. Or did I miss the decree that stated that football has ceased to be a competitive game, with success restricted to 'wankers,' and the rest of us condemned to following a pursuit no more challenging than knitting or flower pressing? Holier-than-thouness in relation to other fans is a dead-end too. Not least because it isn't the fickle who are walking away but a section of the hardcore that prevented the club declining further still over the past dozen years. A competitive game? I'd say that leagues where any team can beat any other team on their given day is highly competitive. Udders beat this magnificent Swansea that you talk about at the Liberty only recently.....yet then we turned them over 4-1.....I'd say that's pretty competitive. Consistency is something you can't buy but you build. As for holier than thouness....first of all, stop kidding yourself that the fickledoms walking away now have previously "prevented the club declining further still"....only TTA's deep pockets and the like of me still staying have prevented that. And as they walk, it means TTAs pockets and our own too (with rises over the years) have had to become deeper. I and many like myself are what makes OAFC.....not those who choose when to support. You call me holier than thou....think it means anything to me? Edited April 3, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick6742 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 IMO Oldham's problems have only been enforced by the rise of the red scummers in the late 90's whilst it was also our period of decline, many potential fans jumping on the glory train. Whilst the loyal Oldham suppporters carry on following through thick and thin. We have had little to cheer over previous years but look how crowds do rise when we get the big games over the years ie. play offs, prem clubs in cup runs or LDV trophy Northern-final (As it was then). What I am saying is you will always have a hardcore fan base you will get glory seekers no matter what club you follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) The point is that whether or not we can, in our diminished state as a club, survive at a higher level can only be put to the test if we actually achieve promotion. Presenting everything in terms of 'either this or Chris Moore again' is a red herring too. Have all promoted clubs of our size or smaller undergone a Chris Moore-style implosion? Erm....I haven't said all other clubs have.....I've said that only those who can throw money at it like Donny and Swansea (for their fortunate reasons of catchment or Roman of League 1) or if you don't do that, then you have the likes of Colchester or Scunny who build, build, build...... We can't do the first option so must opt for the 2nd one.....unfortunately to you that sounds like accepting defeat and being doomed to stay at this level or lower forever. And that's the crux of it. Glass half full of hope or glass half empty of stagnation. A shame that you're drinking from that glass! PS The only thing I'm really pissed at is that I feel we were building 2yrs back, regardless to what others thought, but the majority decided to break it all back down and start again resulting in 2yrs of going nowhere. Now some want to do the same bloody thing again with the current manager. Hoping that doesn't happen this time. Edited April 3, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Jonesy, are you seriously defining hardcore and diehards as the "fans" who are now leaving and giving up? Rather than those that when asked if they are renewing their ST, respond with "YES". presumably you get a victoria cross for going home in your army. "I'm Oldham 'til I get fed up, I'm Oldham 'til I get fed up........" Utter cobblers, no matter how much YOU think such people are "hardcore" or "die hards", they quite clearly are NOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Erm....I haven't said all other clubs have.....I've said that only those who can throw money at it like Donny and Swansea (for their fortunate reasons of catchment or Roman of League 1) or if you don't do that, then you have the likes of Colchester or Scunny who build, build, build...... We can't do the first option so must opt for the 2nd one.....unfortunately to you that sounds like accepting defeat and being doomed to stay at this level or lower forever. And that's the crux of it. Glass half full of hope or glass half empty of stagnation. A shame that you're drinking from that glass! As you say BB we have to work on the second option and not a bad way to achieve success. However, wholesale changes year on year within both playing and management structures has led to stagnation. Then throw in the fact we invariably always lose our better players for bugger all at the end of their contracts, can be seen as a lack of vision, ambition or even progress. I don't want to see the club held to ransom but perhaps if we were a little more 'streetwise' when negotiating new deals or contract extensions we wouldn't constantly drop ourselves in the through lack of a plan B. Perhaps then we could do a Colchester or Scunny. Scunny are a great example, they had Maclean on loan, Rangers sold him from under them, they brought in another lad, then took a gamble on Sharp. I'd like to see us do that, I've no problems with losing players (Christ I still haven't got over selling Tommy Wright to Leicester, but we did replace him with TWO wingers in Tricky Ricky and Adams) as long as we replace them. Ricketts was a bad gamble, yes he had qualities but many weren't prepared to give him a chance, I was indifferent. This summer i'd like us to take a gamble on someone like Robertson and maybe O'Donnell for a season, instead of Crossley (Who hasn't done too badly but not really someone you can build for the future with) or Ricketts lets try and get a few on the up (Like Joe did) rather than those on the way down. If we play our cards right we'll have another year at least with most of this squad, make quality additions in the right areas and we may have a chance. Edited April 3, 2008 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) As you say BB we have to work on the second option and not a bad way to achieve success. However, wholesale changes year on year within both playing and management structures has led to stagnation. Then throw in the fact we invariably always lose our better players for bugger all at the end of their contracts, can be seen as a lack of vision, ambition or even progress. I don't want to see the club held to ransom but perhaps if we were a little more 'streetwise' when negotiating new deals or contract extensions we wouldn't constantly drop ourselves in the through lack of a plan B. Perhaps then we could do a Colchester or Scunny. But this is the problem I've had with this past few years....it's as much a lack of vision and ambition by the management as it is the same by the fans. Moore brought most players in on 2yr deals to do a 2yr job. Problem is, the plan only saw 1yr...Shez comes in...has 1yr of success with a good squad but can't hold onto the players as their contracts end. The stagnation has come from sacking the last manager and not toughing it out and sticking to the plan. And thus the chop and change began and still continues. Those who forced TTA's hand are as guilty as TTA are in my eyes for this stagnation. Reaping and sowing. I've said repeatedly though, I really don't think we'll see many departures this summer (2 or 3 at most) and a few fresh faces to add what we've got. That's what I wanted in the summer of 2006.....sadly for me, the wrong departure occurred. Hopefully the same won't happen this time and we do slowly build on what we've started this season only. Edited April 3, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 But this is the problem I've had with this past few years....it's as much a lack of vision and ambition by the management as it is the same by the fans. Moore brought those players in on 2yr deals to do a 2yr job. Problem is, the plan only saw 1yr...Shez comes in...has 1yr of success with a good squad but can't hold onto the players as their contracts end. The stagnation has come from sacking the last manager. And thus the chop and change began and still continues. Those who forced TTA's hand are as guilty as TTA are in my eyes for this stagnation. I've said repeatedly though, I really don't think we'll see many departures this summer (2 or 3 at most) and a few fresh faces to add what we've got. That's what I wanted in the summer of 2006.....sadly for me, the wrong departure occurred. Hopefully the same won't happen this time and we do slowly build on what we've started this season only. Those that vociferously wanted Ronnie out only need to see what a decent job he has done at the Bin Dippers, like us they were relegation fodder when he took over, brought a fair few new faces in, some worked out, some didn't. Similarly they finished around where we did in his first year. He offloaded some of the players that hadn't worked out and brought in a few new faces, again it hasn't all worked for him but he's used the loan market to his club's advantage and despite horrendous injury problems are right in the mix. Yes we've beaten them twice, but where has that got us? He may not gain promotion but will more than likely finish higher than last season and has progressed in his second year and probably will get another deal to try and take them onto the next level, even though he may do it this year. With the squad we had last season, and the position we were in, even though I wasn't really a fan of Ronnie I don't think we would have blown it. However, Ronnie is in the past and we have to stick with what we have, Shez will get it right it's whether certain individuals will aloow it him, BUT he has to learn from his mistakes. If we start poorly next season he may well not get that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Those that vociferously wanted Ronnie out only need to see what a decent job he has done at the Bin Dippers, like us they were relegation fodder when he took over, brought a fair few new faces in, some worked out, some didn't. Similarly they finished around where we did in his first year. He offloaded some of the players that hadn't worked out and brought in a few new faces, again it hasn't all worked for him but he's used the loan market to his club's advantage and despite horrendous injury problems are right in the mix. Yes we've beaten them twice, but where has that got us? He may not gain promotion but will more than likely finish higher than last season and has progressed in his second year and probably will get another deal to try and take them onto the next level, even though he may do it this year. With the squad we had last season, and the position we were in, even though I wasn't really a fan of Ronnie I don't think we would have blown it. However, Ronnie is in the past and we have to stick with what we have, Shez will get it right it's whether certain individuals will aloow it him, BUT he has to learn from his mistakes. If we start poorly next season he may well not get that time. Agree 100% with the above. Glad you noted their horrendous injuries they've also had.....but have been quite pro-active in using the loan market whilst waiting for Shuker et al to regain fitness. Also, indeed, it is in the past. But to address the question over stagnation (and hopefully how to avoid further stagnation) you have to learn from your past. I hope TTA do this time. Sadly, I'm not 100% convinced they have nor 100% convinced Shez will be here next season.....I'd say I'm 65/35 in my belief he'll still be here on what I've been told by not just anyone. First time I've aired this on here.....some have hinted at it. I know 1 or 2 are repeating the same as I've been told, but sadly have inserted it along with their own agenda of wanting Shez gone. I don't want Shez gone, but I know all ain't rosey behind the scenes and again, the ST sales might be the final straw. This greatly worries me! Edited April 3, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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