NIKI1234 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Here is another club going down the incentive route http://www.port-vale.premiumtv.co.uk/page/...1281088,00.html If vale can do it for 5000, with a similar incentive how many do you think we could shift.... 7000??? Afterall we are a bigger club than Vale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Interesting. It looks like an amazing deal and I'd love to see Latics try something similar. Big flaw there though. What's to stop someone ordering 5000 U-9 tickets which are free and therefore guaranteeing the cheap prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 You'd need to find 5000 nine year olds as the club has details on every season ticket holder Jeff, get to work mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 You'd need to find 5000 nine year olds as the club has details on every season ticket holder Jeff, get to work mate Eh? What's to stop me ordering an ST for me and one each for my 15 children aged between 1 and 9 at my address? If enough people did that, then they would easily hit the 5000 target which guarantees the cheap prices. Ok, so I've only got 3 and strictly speaking, they don't live here but it's easy to inflate the numbers should you (and a few others) wish. There is no way of knowing if the U-9s exist as they won't be on the Electoral Roll. Just see it is a potential loophole that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 "Right Kid's who want's a FREE season ticket to watch Latics next season ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I know that I'm going to get slated for this, but here goes. I do not understand why there are so many people in favour of these schemes. The Port Vale scheme is utter madness. If they sell 5,000 season tickets at £183 they are bringing in revenue of well under a million quid with the liklihood of no matchday revenue apart from the away fans. I know that people will go on about pies and programmes etc but realistically, the margin on these is minimal. If Port Vale sold season tickets for £300 they would probably sell 2,500, giving them revenue of a couple of hundred grand less but with added revenue each match (probably an extra thousand punters at £20 a throw). The atmosphere created by five thousand fans is not going to be that much better than with three and a half or four thousand. The club will have significantly less revenue over the season and so will be significantly less competitive in the transfer market. I want to watch a decent Latics team and appreciate that I have to pay a reasonable price for that to be the case. Our season tickets will be about £300 this time round, thus costing me £13 a game. That is not an excessive price in my opinion. I appreciate that there will be people who can't afford £300 up front but that is the way of the world and there will also be people who cannot afford £183. Give me a team challenging for promotion next season at £13 a game over a team battling to stay up at £8 a game. Edited April 4, 2008 by Latics & England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 5,000 would produce spin offs like extra catering and car park revenue. Latics have to move with the times and with falling gates cannot possibly offer the same deal next season as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 I know that I'm going to get slated for this, but here goes. I do not understand why there are so many people in favour of these schemes. The Port Vale scheme is utter madness. If they sell 5,000 season tickets at £183 they are bringing in revenue of well under a million quid with the liklihood of no matchday revenue apart from the away fans. I know that people will go on about pies and programmes etc but realistically, the margin on these is minimal. If Port Vale sold season tickets for £300 they would probably sell 2,500, giving them revenue of a couple of hundred grand less but with added revenue each match (probably an extra thousand punters at £20 a throw). The atmosphere created by five thousand fans is not going to be that much better than with three and a half or four thousand. The club will have significantly less revenue over the season and so will be significantly less competitive in the transfer market. I want to watch a decent Latics team and appreciate that I have to pay a reasonable price for that to be the case. Our season tickets will be about £300 this time round, thus costing me £13 a game. That is not an excessive price in my opinion. I appreciate that there will be people who can't afford £300 up front but that is the way of the world and there will also be people who cannot afford £183. Give me a team challenging for promotion next season at £13 a game over a team battling to stay up at £8 a game. Its not gaurenteed that we automatically become a struggling side if we offer an icentive.... Could it not be possible that we have a good season with our current crop of players with crowds of 7000 and word gets around that we are actually half decent and we still have 1000 or so fans turning up and paying on the gate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMO Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I know that I'm going to get slated for this, but here goes. I do not understand why there are so many people in favour of these schemes. The Port Vale scheme is utter madness. If they sell 5,000 season tickets at £183 they are bringing in revenue of well under a million quid with the liklihood of no matchday revenue apart from the away fans. I know that people will go on about pies and programmes etc but realistically, the margin on these is minimal. If Port Vale sold season tickets for £300 they would probably sell 2,500, giving them revenue of a couple of hundred grand less but with added revenue each match (probably an extra thousand punters at £20 a throw). The atmosphere created by five thousand fans is not going to be that much better than with three and a half or four thousand. The club will have significantly less revenue over the season and so will be significantly less competitive in the transfer market. I want to watch a decent Latics team and appreciate that I have to pay a reasonable price for that to be the case. Our season tickets will be about £300 this time round, thus costing me £13 a game. That is not an excessive price in my opinion. I appreciate that there will be people who can't afford £300 up front but that is the way of the world and there will also be people who cannot afford £183. Give me a team challenging for promotion next season at £13 a game over a team battling to stay up at £8 a game. £20 a game for 3rd Division Football is far from reasonable, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 £20 a game for 3rd Division Football is far from reasonable, That is a completely different argument. I agree that a pay on the day price of £20 is excessive for this level of football but we are talking about season ticket prices and I do not accept that £13 a game is over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why not use the Trotman money to subsidise cheaper Season Tickets? Would make good business sense to me. £150 a pop, everyones a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I know that I'm going to get slated for this, but here goes. I do not understand why there are so many people in favour of these schemes. The Port Vale scheme is utter madness. If they sell 5,000 season tickets at £183 they are bringing in revenue of well under a million quid with the liklihood of no matchday revenue apart from the away fans. I know that people will go on about pies and programmes etc but realistically, the margin on these is minimal. If Port Vale sold season tickets for £300 they would probably sell 2,500, giving them revenue of a couple of hundred grand less but with added revenue each match (probably an extra thousand punters at £20 a throw). The atmosphere created by five thousand fans is not going to be that much better than with three and a half or four thousand. The club will have significantly less revenue over the season and so will be significantly less competitive in the transfer market. I want to watch a decent Latics team and appreciate that I have to pay a reasonable price for that to be the case. Our season tickets will be about £300 this time round, thus costing me £13 a game. That is not an excessive price in my opinion. I appreciate that there will be people who can't afford £300 up front but that is the way of the world and there will also be people who cannot afford £183. Give me a team challenging for promotion next season at £13 a game over a team battling to stay up at £8 a game. Depends though. On recent results and their performance at VP vs us, they're not as bad as their points total suggest. If Sinnott's come in and got them playing well and they think that with, say an extra couple of signings, they'd be in with a shout next year of promotion then maybe they want to rake in all the money pre-season, buy the players and get 46 games out of them, rather than just the games from January onwards. Let's face it, the sides that have come up this year have hardly set the league alight. Swindon and Bristol Rovers are languishing at the wrong end of the table (although the latter has games in hand), Hartlepool flirted with relegation. Walsall made a fist of it but are starting to slip. They're doesn't appear to be that much difference between the bottom of L1 and top of L2. Chesterfield, Brentford, Rotherham and Bradford all had squad clear outs and are mid-table L2 sides, and the Millers would be with Chestefield on the cusp of the playoffs if they hadn't have had their ten point deduction. Keep the nucleus of your side and bring in a couple of players and I think any side going down this year will stand a good shot of going back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why not use the Trotman money to subsidise cheaper Season Tickets? Would make good business sense to me. £150 a pop, everyones a winner. Except Simon Corney, who would in effect have paid for half of the crowd's admission fees to come to his already loss-making football ground, and would have the choice of either taking that out of his own pocket or reducing the wage bill. Anyway Slurms, I've got some good news for you. I know a Zimbabwean general who is fleeing the country. He is taking £20 million with him but he needs a UK bank account to deposit it into. If you just PM me your bank account details he'll use yours and split the loot. Interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why not use the Trotman money to subsidise cheaper Season Tickets? Would make good business sense to me. £150 a pop, everyones a winner. £300 x 3500 = £1,050,000, gate receipts averaging 2000 x £18 x 23 games = £828,000: Total £1,878,000 £150 x 5000 = £750,000, gate receipts averaging 500 x £18 x £23 = £207,000: Total £957,000. Drop in receipts:- £921,000 i.e all the Trotman money and another £400k lost on top, a heavily reduced wage budget too! I prefer Latics & England's way. And £6.50 a game is plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 £300 x 3500 = £1,050,000, gate receipts averaging 2000 x £18 x 23 games = £828,000: Total £1,878,000 £150 x 5000 = £750,000, gate receipts averaging 500 x £18 x £23 = £207,000: Total £957,000. Drop in receipts:- £921,000 i.e all the Trotman money and another £400k lost on top, a heavily reduced wage budget too! I prefer Latics & England's way. And £6.50 a game is plain silly. Your sums assume that we won't get any more fans if we hugely cut the prices. Now that is plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Your sums assume that we won't get any more fans if we hugely cut the prices. Now that is plain silly. I've assumed an extra 1500 ST holders. And dropped the pay on the days accordingly. I can't see many people paying on the day at £18 when it's £6.50 on a ST. So instead, let's take our best home gate of the season and use that as the ST figure and no pay on the days at all:- 8168 (vs Hudds in the cup) x £150 = £1,225,200 So, still less. You'd need over 9200 fans and the trotman money. And that way a £500k fee would evaporate in 1 year. And we'd get no pay on the days at all. And what if we only get 5000 at £150? Do we fold the club or just accept a terrible season and relegation? You said it makes good business sense to you, but did you actually bother to add it all up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoid Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Your sums assume that we won't get any more fans if we hugely cut the prices. Now that is plain silly. remind me just how many turned up for northampton last season when we were Flying high, on the back of a great run and all for £2, the only real way were going to boost crowds is to win games week in week out. Edit: Just looked it up 10300 (ish). * 150 (assuming that many will come at 6.50 a game, which they wont) = 1,545,000 + average of 800 away fans (guesstimate) @ £20 = £368,000 = £1,913,000 only slightly more than reals £1,878,000 we earn now and thats making to massive errors 1) the same number of people will come at £6.50 a game as will for £2 a game. 2) the 10300ish doesnt include any away fans. Edited April 4, 2008 by arnoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I will post this LINK again --------------> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/col...icle3485612.ece As you all can tell I am in favour of Latics putting together an incentive scheme on Season Tickets. I dismiss the figures that 'real' has given.....and would also add that apart from more 'on the day' revenue generated, Bradford have also found that their profile in the area has increased and they are actually finding it easier to get sponsorship deals. I really cannot see what the big deal is.....Latics simply agree to sell Season Tickets at a reduced level IF a certain number of pledges are made (don't ask me the ins and outs and all the legalities...just assume it can be done cos Bradford have done it and Vale are trying it). Presumably the target amount of pledges would have to generate the same income that would be created by the 3,000 (or whatever figure Latics expect to sell) season tickets sold at standard prices would produce. IF the target isn't reached then the scheme is dropped and ST prices revert back to standard. READ THE TIMES ARTICLE BELOW............ If the accountants measure the dash for cash in the Barclays Premier League in astronomical amounts, fans at the bottom of football's pile know precisely the cost of their love of the game: £3.25, in some cases. That is the price for a match ticket being offered by Bradford City, who are proving that enterprise and a little thought for the people who pack the stands can go a long way to reviving a club. Bradford have been in freefall since being relegated from the top flight seven years ago, enduring two spells in administration along the way. Another bout of relegation last season to Coca-Cola League Two should have meant tumbleweed blowing through empty stands. But if Julian Rhodes, the chairman, has been unable to turn the tide on the field, he has been able to keep bums on seats. By offering season tickets at £6 a match, the average gate was more than 13,000 during Bradford's drop into the fourth tier. Now season tickets are on sale for next season at only £150 and the deal includes a buy one, get one free option: of 12,000 season-ticket holders, 9,000 are adults, and they are being offered one more ticket if they purchase by the middle of June. Each person's admission per match works out at an astonishing £3.25. Last season's knock-down prices helped to turn losses of £500,000 a year into a small profit. Now Rhodes believes that he can aim for gates of 20,000 in a bit of business that is delighting supporters' groups and opening doors to more young fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoid Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Bradford Don't have city,utd, and bolton nearby though, they have huddersfield, leeds and let's not forget those bastions of massive attendances Farsley and Halifax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Bradford Don't have city,utd, and bolton nearby though, they have huddersfield, leeds and let's not forget those bastions of massive attendances Farsley and Halifax Zzzzzzzz That's why Bradford can aim for 10k and actually get 12/13k....whereas we won't, but nor do we need to. If we're currently selling 3,000 season tickest at X then we will need to sell double the amount (6,000 or season tickets) at half price for it to work .Simple eh ? Edited April 4, 2008 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoid Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Zzzzzzzz That's why Bradford can aim for 10k and actually get 12/13k....whereas we won't, but nor do we need to. If we're currently selling 3,000 season tickest at X then we will need to sell double the amount (6,000 or season tickets) at half price for it to work .Simple eh ? simple in theory but we wont sell twice as many at half the price in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Zzzzzzzz That's why Bradford can aim for 10k and actually get 12/13k....whereas we won't, but nor do we need to. If we're currently selling 3,000 season tickest at X then we will need to sell double the amount (6,000 or season tickets) at half price for it to work .Simple eh ? There are two fundamental flaws in this theory. One, your assumption that selling twice as many season tickets at half the price leads to the same amount of revenue ignores the impact on pay on the day fans. I would strongly argue that the first 2,000 additional season tickets we sell would be at the expense of 1,500 pay on the day fans (a loss of £690k of matchday income being partly offset by an additional £300k of season ticket sales) Two, you are assuming that there are a large number of people who do not go to BP based on cost alone. If the reason someone doesn't go is anything other than price, a reduction in price will not lead to them attending games. Personally I have doubts that there are too many people who don't go because of the price. I am not saying that there aren't quite a few but I don't believe it is in the thousands. Price may be A reason for some people but not THE reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 have to say i agree with latics and england on this one. he has summed it up very well so i wont add anything further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 simple in theory but we wont sell twice as many at half the price in reality. Perhaps not, but what's the harm in trying ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) There are two fundamental flaws in this theory. One, your assumption that selling twice as many season tickets at half the price leads to the same amount of revenue ignores the impact on pay on the day fans. I would strongly argue that the first 2,000 additional season tickets we sell would be at the expense of 1,500 pay on the day fans (a loss of £690k of matchday income being partly offset by an additional £300k of season ticket sales) Two, you are assuming that there are a large number of people who do not go to BP based on cost alone. If the reason someone doesn't go is anything other than price, a reduction in price will not lead to them attending games. Personally I have doubts that there are too many people who don't go because of the price. I am not saying that there aren't quite a few but I don't believe it is in the thousands. Price may be A reason for some people but not THE reason. With regards to the possible decrease in pay on the day revenue you may well be right...you may well be wrong....nobody can be sure until it has been tried...at Bradford it has been tried and resulted in a small profit....I can see no reason why it can't be done at Oldham, albeit on a smaller scale. There is of course the extra revenue from matchday sales. There is also a case for saying that, again as has happened in Bradford's case, sponsorship revenue would increase due to the increased profile of the club etc. So even if the income generated from pay on the day gate receipts decreases (and of course there is an argument to say it could actually increase), there are other income streams that could increase. With regards to your second point, I feel there are hundreds of 'reasons' why people don't go to BP anymore....I've heard them all believe me....but I am definitely sure that a lot of people don't go to BP because of cost... I also hear often that people don't enjoy it anymore....they moan about the lack of atmosphere etc...hopefully having twice as many fans inside the ground may help the atmosphere... At the end of the day, none of us can predict whether the scheme would work at Latics and if it did what the impacts would be on on revenue, atmosphere, club profile, creating future fans, generating sponsorship etc etc BUT surely it's worth a try. Edited April 5, 2008 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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