oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) The future of public transport in Manchester ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE35onlIySk&hl=en&fs=1 Reminds of when I used to get the tram to Salford Qauys Edited December 2, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Like I said... Democracy is a great thing... One of the pittfalls though is the right decision isnt always come to...thats all... The "right" decision being what? The one you support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The "right" decision being what? The one you support? Of course No doubt you believe your opinion is right ? Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a opinion would it I like to think my future children will grow up where the car isnt king... I like them to view it has a nasty, smelly, dirty, expensive option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) Democracy is a great thing... One of the pittfalls though is the right decision isnt always come to...thats all... Wheras if you let a dictator decide he'll always get it right will he? And regardless of who makes the decision, who actually determines whether it's the right one or not? Is it you? Because what you appear to be saying is that even if an overwhelming majority of people vote no they will still be wrong and you will be right which rather goes against the principle of democracy that you are keen to remind us is a great thing. Edited December 2, 2008 by M_OAFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I like to think my future children will grow up where the car isnt king... I like them to view it has a nasty, smelly, dirty, expensive option What is it you have against the car? Were you run over when you were a kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think I'm going to vote Yes for the charge. We do need public transport improvements and less congestion, I don't think this scheme is perfect but I think it will make a big improvement. It would be much better if we didn't have to pay the charge to get the improvements but I don't think there is any other choice for Greater Manchester for a long, long time. I think it will affect employment and people but there are still choices for everyone and will have to adapt to the changes, including myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Wheras if you let a dictator decide he'll always get it right will he? Didnt say that And regardless of who makes the decision, who actually determines whether it's the right one or not? Is it you? Because what you appear to be saying is that even if an overwhelming majority of people vote no they will still be wrong and you will be right which rather goes against the principle of democracy that you are keen to remind us is a great thing. Does it bollox I think if we had a vote of the return of the death penalty it would be past... Dosent make it right.... Democracy stands up for the protection of the small voice as much as it does for the voice of the masses... Politics clearly isnt your strong point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 And respect for others isn't yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 What is it you have against the car? Where do I start ????????????????????????? Global Warming and the fact it runs off a unsustainable fuel source just for starters... The car has created a situation where mass movements of people have become the norm which in turns fuels the need for cars for commuting instead of having self sustaining pockets of local business being feed by local workers. This in turns has created greater pockets of poverty and wealth. You can look this up in many books documenting the destruction of the local communities written by world experts. The combustion engine was a massive step forward for mankind....what we did with the technology was completely wrong and model typical parasite human behaviour.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Didnt say that Does it bollox I think if we had a vote of the return of the death penalty it would be past... Dosent make it right.... Democracy stands up for the protection of the small voice as much as it does for the voice of the masses... Politics clearly isnt your strong point Interesting. You are pointing out the difference between perfect procedural justice and imperfect procedural justice. Sadly my knowledge of political theory is as weak as is my understanding of the management of traffic management systems, so I won't even bother crossing swords with such a titanic intellect as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) Interesting. You are pointing out the difference between perfect procedural justice and imperfect procedural justice. Sadly my knowledge of political theory is as weak as is my understanding of the management of traffic management systems, so I won't even bother crossing swords with such a titanic intellect as yours. Considering you couldn't come up with the most basic of case studies to back up your flawed view that local business will suffer from the congestion charge I wouldn't bother mate... To be honest, this will be my last post to you... You dodge any question I put your way anyway... Edited December 2, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Businesses will only suffer from this if they don't adapt to the changes, if they can't/won't adapt they aren't a viable buisness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Where do I start ????????????????????????? Global Warming and the fact it runs off a unsustainable fuel source just for starters... The car has created a situation where mass movements of people have become the norm which in turns fuels the need for cars for commuting instead of having self sustaining pockets of local business being feed by local workers. This in turns has created greater pockets of poverty and wealth. You can look this up in many books documenting the destruction of the local communities written by world experts. The combustion engine was a massive step forward for mankind....what we did with the technology was completely wrong and model typical parasite human behaviour.... I'm almost crying with laughter reading that. So.... the car is the single cause of global warming is it? And the only thing that runs off an unsustainable fuel source? I won't even start on the theory that the car is solely to blame for the destruction of local communities.... that's so utterly insane I wouldn't even know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Businesses will only suffer from this if they don't adapt to the changes, if they can't/won't adapt they aren't a viable buisness. A 100% fact..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Does it bollox. I think if we had a vote of the return of the death penalty it would be past... Dosent make it right But that's exactly my point, who are you to say it wouldn't be right. I'm not for one second suggesting you should suddenly have to change your opinion and start agreeing with the majority. But if the majority of people believe we should be hanging people then that's what we should be doing. That's what democracy is. But you seem to want to tell us that we should only be doing it if you happen to think it's right. Politics clearly isnt your strong point I've got an A level in it as it goes. That could be your next crusade, stop giving A levels to selfish ignorant people who know nothing about the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 So.... the car is the single cause of global warming is it? And the only thing that runs off an unsustainable fuel source? Neither did I say or suggest that.... I won't even start on the theory that the car is solely to blame for the destruction of local communities.... that's so utterly insane I wouldn't even know where to start. Again, Neither did I say or suggest that.... Many factors contribute... Including the car and the idea that people can travel great distances, cheaply to better themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Considering you couldn't come up with the most basic of case studies to back up your flawed view that local business will suffer from the congestion charge I wouldn't bother mate... To be honest, this will be my last post to you... You dodge any question I put your anyway... I told you already, if you understand principles of economics you don't need to actually interview a shopkeeper who will lose out, any more than you need to interview a thrusting entrepreneur who lives in Warrington and works in Manchester about how people are selfish parasites unless they work in the local community. Howver, I did leave you a couple of broad examples from everyday life LOL! With this example, you will have corner shops either side of the line. I know which one I would go to. Likewise any number of small businesses that will be no more of a drive for many people - they will still drive to the shop, they will just turn left instead of right and go to another one. With the vagueries of local geography this will happen in many unpredictable ways all round the zone. No doubt people will drive quite a way longer to avoid the charge, this increasing pollution. :laught16: :laught16: Are you sure you get upset because I don't answer you, or is it it that like with everyone else who makes a good point against your argument, you have nothing but your emoticons and ill manners to support your position with? LOL ROFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I'm not for one second suggesting you should suddenly have to change your opinion and start agreeing with the majority. But if the majority of people believe we should be hanging people then that's what we should be doing. Scary theory.... At the start of the Nazi moment the party had support from the masses... I think you need to reassess your view of the world and people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 But you've clearly decided you're going to blame the car and that motorists should bear the brunt of changing the world. Typical anti-car loobyist without a single comprehensible argument. By the way, was it the car that made you move to Warrington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Businesses will only suffer from this if they don't adapt to the changes, if they can't/won't adapt they aren't a viable buisness. More accurately Macca, is to say that a large strong business will be able to absorb the cost increase without noticing, although it is still an unnecessary increase in the current climate. It will push some businesses which are disproportionately affected to the brink, and some which are struggling at the moment over the brink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 But you've clearly decided you're going to blame the car and that motorists should bear the brunt of changing the world. I will blame the car for areas it is responsible for... I also believe taxes should be applied to air travel and other similar forms of transport... Considering where talking about charges for the use of roads it seems the wrong argument to discuss air travel etc but im up for that if you want.... Typical anti-car loobyist without a single comprehensible argument. Says the pro car man... With all his great suggestions By the way, was it the car that made you move to Warrington? I have no idea what your going on about... I dont drive I move to Warrington because my wife lives here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Didnt say that So according to you democracy doesn't work because the people too often make decisions that you don't agree with but you don't want a dictator either. So what do you want then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have no idea what your going on about... I dont drive I move to Warrington because my wife lives here You were the one bemoaning the breakdown of local communities and people moving long distances.... (and blaming the car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 So according to you democracy doesn't work because the people too often make decisions that you don't agree with but you don't want a dictator either. So what do you want then? Didnt say that either... Democracy works just fine... Its the best of all the methods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 You were the one bemoaning the breakdown of local communities and people moving long distances.... (and blaming the car). Still confused what moving to live with my wife has to do with anything My point is more to do with people seeing Liverpool to Manchester or further a field as a acceptable daily commute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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