KYLEOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Cant escape this issue for love nor money at the moment and I have had all the people involved in this proposal trying to sell it to me for months and I am still in the no camp. It’s the biggest proposed congestion scheme in the world at 80sq miles the next biggest is London at 15sq. Its nothing to do with the environment despite what people say and would probably have the same cut in emissions as it would if we were to just cull 800 cows! Methane and co2 etc…. As for congestion BOLLOX! the current road infrastructure is sufficient for the next 15 years where its going to be upgraded anyway. Also I asked if the charges were to end at 10.00am what happens if I am driving down the road at 9.55 am and 200 yards from a camera or the border of a proposed “charged ring” I would just pull over and wait 5 mins, wont this lead to congestion? Lol Also if somebody stumbles into the zone on an outside ring (droylsden etc) and doesnt have credit on the congestion charge displayed on the dash would we chase the £1? I was told NO it would cost to much to chase the debt, so what do you do? DONT PAY!!! lol The whole thing stems from public transport being privatised and a lack of investment from central government, a flat rate of £5 is pittance but don’t lie to me regarding the need for the whole concept!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The population being allowed to vote in this congestion charging malarky is about 5million. The population of Tyne and Wear and County Durham is less than that roughly about half if I was estimating. So why is it that Tyne and Wear, (plus county Durham) has a much better integrated transport system. For example if you want to go from Durham to Newcastle at peak times (a journey I used to do regularly) it takes at least 45 mins by car or 20 mins by train, unsurprisingly I used to use the train as there wasn't a big difference in price once you'd factored in running costs, petrol and car parking. If you want to go from Sunderland to Newcastle you can either go by car, bus, train or metro (which is a mix of tram and underground) and depending on the time of the day and whereabouts in sunderland you were and whereabouts in Newcastle you wanted to be you might be better choosing different options but usually the train/metro (which must run on the same lines) is the best bet. I'm not (or more accurately the people of the North east aren't) being given a vote to see if I want to pay more via a congestion charge to have a much better integrated transport system because the North East has already got a decent transport system. The people around here are not being asked to pay more to fund a new Tyne Tunnel (one of the largest sources of congestion) the people who will eventually use it will have to pay (and it won't be more than the one currently used in terms of inflation). If the North East can have a much better transport system covering the same sort of area without ever having to pay for it (and the congestion is appalling- worse than Manchester's I reckon) then why should the people of G. Manchester (supposedly the UK's second metropolis) have to pay for an equivalent. I don't have a problem with public transport and use it when it is the best option in either terms of speed or cost. In the past I've survived a lot easier without a car in Durham than I ever would have in Heywood and due to a problem with my right leg I will continue to survive without a car for the foreseeable future. Why can I survive so well, because there's a decent transport system which has already been funded and paid for something that Manchester has lacked for as long as I remember. Its quite simple the population of Manchester is now being asked to pay more for something that should have been sorted ages ago and all on the basis of reducing congestion. Its utter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYLEOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) If you were to commute to work through the charging scheme and you really didn’t want to pay, what you could do is phone you councils licensing department up and register your car as a private hire taxi! Thus meaning your exempt of any charges lol Its around £90 one off fee I think so in just over 18 working days the rest of your commutes are free lol Its amazing how many Bentleys are registered as private hire cabs in London. SO I HEARD ON TOP GEAR! AND I DONT CONDONE THIS!!! BAD PEOPLE!! Edited December 2, 2008 by KYLEOAFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Cant escape this issue for love nor money at the moment and I have had all the people involved in this proposal trying to sell it to me for months and I am still in the no camp. It’s the biggest proposed congestion scheme in the world at 80sq miles the next biggest is London at 15sq. Its nothing to do with the environment despite what people say and would probably have the same cut in emissions as it would if we were to just cull 800 cows! Methane and co2 etc…. As for congestion BOLLOX! the current road infrastructure is sufficient for the next 15 years where its going to be upgraded anyway. Also I asked if the charges were to end at 10.00am what happens if I am driving down the road at 9.55 am and 200 yards from a camera or the border of a proposed “charged ring” I would just pull over and wait 5 mins, wont this lead to congestion? Lol Also if somebody stumbles into the zone on an outside ring (droylsden etc) and doesnt have credit on the congestion charge displayed on the dash would we chase the £1? I was told NO it would cost to much to chase the debt, so what do you do? DONT PAY!!! lol The whole thing stems from public transport being privatised and a lack of investment from central government, a flat rate of £5 is pittance but don’t lie to me regarding the need for the whole concept!!! My God. Kyle, you've just put the icing on top of the NO cake for me. Vote NO. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYLEOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 My God. Kyle, you've just put the icing on top of the NO cake for me. Vote NO. Cheers! No problem lol Cows/livestock are more danger to the environment than cars and thats a fact! As for the Blackmail effort ie in order to get better public transport we have to charge you thats ludicrous! Government pulled the funding for the metro link so we said basically loan us the money and we will pay it back over a set period with congestion charging scheme. Its costing around 320 million to set the scheme up in the first place before anything happens. Ive voted no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) So, 1 simple question to the pro-chargers who drive. Would you vote for a pay-per-mile across the whole country or are you a hypocrite? I would defo back national road charging of this kind! Congestion zones are defo the back door to national road charging.... Edited December 2, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Some interesting points for and against. I started the thread mainly because I haven't found anybody whatsoever in the YES camp and, being open minded, hoped to hear what the arguments were for it before casting my vote. oafc0000 has swung it for me (and, i'd imagine others) with his sneering, superior attitude and twisting of other peoples words/opinions. He brings home for me exactly what the kind of people trying to get this through are like - patronising & not to be trusted. If life has taught me anything it's that someone who has an opinion on and an answer to ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is generally best ignored. So, thanks for everyones input. Especially oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) My God. Kyle, you've just put the icing on top of the NO cake for me. Vote NO. Cheers! THats what swung it for you ? Kind of shows up the level of thinking about the charge.... By the looks of it the No vote is the way its going.... This is the problem when you let the people decide... If we let the people decide everything we would have hanging, 90 public holidays and national creame tea day Edited December 2, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping Jimmy Thunder Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 are you not a 'person'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 If we let the people decide everything we would have hanging, 90 public holidays and national creame tea day sounds good to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 THats what swung it for you ? Kind of shows up the level of thinking about the charge.... By the looks of it the No vote is the way its going.... This is the problem when you let the people decide... If we let the people decide everything we would have hanging, 90 public holidays and national creame tea day Do me a favour, let me place my vote the way I want to. I think your approach to swinging people to the YES vote (if that's what you are doing - I doubt you wouldn't have hung around so long on this thread otherwise) is actually having an adverse effect. You sound like some religious zealot. No hard feelings, but you are starting to get on my nerves - sorry mate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I would defo back national road charging of this kind! Congestion zones are defo the back door to national road charging.... So, on top of road tax and fuel duty you think road users should have to pay more? You're happy to pay more and more tax to the government? You've said it's a tax on the ignorant and selfish, presumably based on your "anyone who drives into manchester" comments, but I haven't mentioned a single journey into manchester, so surely you mean "it's a tax on some of the people who i see as ignorant and selfish, plus some others who are not, whilst some others who are also ignorant and selfish (by drivings dozens/hundreds of miles along side public transport in other directions) pay nothing" So, a randomly targetted tax that hits some of your intended targets, misses loads of others and hits a lot of unintended targets. Now, that is a pretty selfish and ignorant way of running a government imho. Do you drive? and If so, where to and how many miles a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 are you not a 'person'? no, he's an unselfish businessman. do keep up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Do me a favour, let me place my vote the way I want to. I think your approach to swinging people to the YES vote (if that's what you are doing - I doubt you wouldn't have hung around so long on this thread otherwise) is actually having an adverse effect. You sound like some religious zealot. No hard feelings, but you are starting to get on my nerves - sorry mate.... starting? that's some thick skin you've got there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 sounds good to me Could I offer you a tax cut and the return of the birch as an additional sweetener in case you waver? I'm in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 no, he's an unselfish businessman. do keep up Does he own his own business? He kept that one close to his chest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Do me a favour, let me place my vote the way I want to. I think your approach to swinging people to the YES vote (if that's what you are doing - I doubt you wouldn't have hung around so long on this thread otherwise) is actually having an adverse effect. You sound like some religious zealot. No hard feelings, but you are starting to get on my nerves - sorry mate.... You can place your vote anyway you want... Post your opinion on a public forum and you can expect it to be challenged As for getting on your nerves.... Stop being so soft...softy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You can place your vote anyway you want... Post your opinion on a public forum and you can expect it to be challenged As for getting on your nerves.... Stop being so soft...softy Fair point about the opinions, but you are never going to sway what clearly is the opinion of the majority. It's not about giving up either, however you just have to accept that sometimes not everybody will agree with you. Good luck to you sir. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 So, on top of road tax and fuel duty you think road users should have to pay more? No, I didnt say that.... You're happy to pay more and more tax to the government? As a general principle yeah I am..... Do you drive? and If so, where to and how many miles a year? I dont drive out of principle.... My Wife does though.. She drives every day.. Its a requirement for her job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Fair point about the opinions, but you are never going to sway what clearly is the opinion of the majority. he's never gonna sway anybody about anything the way he goes about it. he might have some very valid points/facts/opinions but I, for one, can't get past the tone & manner in which he puts them across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 THats what swung it for you ? Kind of shows up the level of thinking about the charge.... By the looks of it the No vote is the way its going.... This is the problem when you let the people decide... If we let the people decide everything we would have hanging, 90 public holidays and national creame tea day Democracy, eh, who'd have thunk it........Power to the People! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping Jimmy Thunder Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 It has suddenly dawned on me. OAFC0000 is actually a vehement advocate of the 'no' vote and believes (incorrectly) that the congestion charge will actually Kerry Packer his business. However he is all too aware that preaching in a 'holier than thou' manner will not win people over, but will in fact sway people the other way. He therefore had a very cunning plan and preached the exact opposite of what he believes, knowing that ultimately his aims will be achieved. It worked a little on me. I was 55% 'no', 45% 'yes'. Now I'm about 80/20. I think it worked a little on Rummy also. Genius. No wonder you are a successful business man OAFC0000, I doff my hat to you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Are you the blond one from Scooby Doo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Democracy, eh, who'd have thunk it........Power to the People! Democracy is fine... Its the process of putting much more clever people in charge Regardless of what people think of Brown... I rest safe at night that he is in charge and not some of the posters on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 It has suddenly dawned on me. OAFC0000 is actually a vehement advocate of the 'no' vote and believes (incorrectly) that the congestion charge will actually Kerry Packer his business. However he is all too aware that preaching in a 'holier than thou' manner will not win people over, but will in fact sway people the other way. He therefore had a very cunning plan and preached the exact opposite of what he believes, knowing that ultimately his aims will be achieved. It worked a little on me. I was 55% 'no', 45% 'yes'. Now I'm about 80/20. I think it worked a little on Rummy also. Genius. No wonder you are a successful business man OAFC0000, I doff my hat to you sir. Cracking post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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