Zorrro Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) Andy Ritchies appointment would catch the imagination An interesting theory. I can't say I agree, but it's an interesting point nonetheless. Would the Oldham fans be more excited by an ex-manager coming back (an ex-manager who essentially failed), or would they look at the appointment of arguably the most promising young manager in the Football League and think "This guy has a reputation for bringing the best out of gifted youngsters and getting his team playing football, and therefore these are exciting times for Oldham"? What follows is clearly down to many factors, but I think a difference in attendance of 2000 people, based solely on the appointment of one rather than the other, is a little fanciful. Edited March 11, 2009 by Zorrro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 My preference is a no-brainer to me. The epitome of irony in one sentence. I'm sure you didn't mean it to read the way it did Stitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 We've already been told it will be cut, we are quite lucky that alot of high earners are out of contract this season though Given the recession and the impacts that will have - does a reduced wage bill = a reduced squad quality? The high earners who are looking for new contracts (either our players, or other clubs) may well find that the reduced advertising/sponsorship/supporter income that they are signing on much lower contracts. The TTA reduce the wage bill may not result in a lesser team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 An interesting theory. I can't say I agree, but it's an interesting point nonetheless. Would the Oldham fans be more excited by an ex-manager coming back (an ex-manager who essentially failed), or would they look at the appointment of arguably the most promising young manager in the Football League and think "This guy has a reputation for bringing the best out of gifted youngsters and getting his team playing football, and therefore these are exciting times for Oldham"? What follows is clearly down to many factors, but I think a difference in attendance of 2000 people, based solely on the appointment of one rather than the other, is a little fanciful. Appreciate you accepting my point of view. Refreshing. Is Gannon the 'most promising manager'? We know he probably is, but I suspect many of the people we are trying to (re)attract don't even know who the Stockport manager is, and when his appointment is justified by his record people will probably look back to Talbot and the wonders he had worked! Gannon is kind of a Ritchie of County, and he still wants out. No thanks.... Ritchie was hardly a failure either, he survived on a shoestring and was then sacked by Chris Moore at the first half chance. He has since won a promotion and although admittingly largely flopping at Huddersfield that's just the nature of the game. Maybe he has learned from that? Anyway I reckon Gannon may well flop wherever he ends up - like I said that's just the nature of the game. There are more examples than non-examples of managers doing well at one club, particularly a small one they know inside out, and then failing elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 What follows is clearly down to many factors, but I think a difference in attendance of 2000 people, based solely on the appointment of one rather than the other, is a little fanciful. Maybe. However I know at least one person who would go (maybe even buy a ST) if Stitch was appointed. If every other one of the current 4k could say the same thing then we would have 6k. I can picture this being the case with Ritchie, but certianly not Jim Gannon (who the f**k is he?? ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 but I suspect many of the people we are trying to (re)attract don't even know who the Stockport manager is Therein lies the problem with my argument. I'm reliant on the people of Oldham actually knowing about football. Whilst I'd be in no way heartbroken by Ritchie's reappointment, and I'm clearly not taking into account the fact he's gained experience since, I wasn't overly enamoured by him first time around. (In fact, his unwillingness to make substitutions when they were necessary almost had me thrown out of the Main Stand on numerous occasions.) Of course, there's the fact that he'd be in charge of a better squad with better owners above his head. This may well be a telling factor. In summary, I'd have either of 'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 A balanced view?!? That's coming from you?!? :laught16: Anyway, I can state a preference without publically assessing the merits of the considerations. But for your sake, Gannon may look an attractive proposition to the remaining hardcore who have taken note of his impressive record, but our current numero uno problemo is the lapsed fan base. Jim Gannon won't catch the imagination - Talbot and Moores apointments didn't and they both came with a similarly decent record (and were :censored:e). Andy Ritchies appointment would catch the imagination, and if I'm wrong and it didn't then we might as well all pack up and go home anyway. To summarise I'd rather watch us play under the legend infront of 6k than under a County legend infront of 4k. Ritchie would care more and has a lot more experience than last time he was here as a novice(and did ok). Also he has gotten out of this league before being sacked for NOT spending money. Gannon hasn't gotten out of this league, and wants to jump ship because there is no money to spend. My preference is a no-brainer to me. Ed, I could never explain it to you. and it seems you dont even want to try... an extra 2k on the gate if ritchie was manager...that may or may not be the case....although i would much prefer the club to appoint a manager on his managemnt record and or potential rather than how many extra fans would come back to bp. if you said big joe was back and it would give us an extra 3k fans great,but if they cant do the job and cant get us to where we want to be then whats the point.... we have been down the fans favourite route,and it doesnt work....and hasnt worked....shez has got us into a fantastic position on more than 1 occasion,but is sadly lacking in taking it that little bit further... we have also been down the appoint someone who doesnt have a history with the club route and that didnt work. the next manager of latics should be appointed on his ability to do the job in hand,to train manage pick and deliver a team on the poitch cpapble of getting promoted....to command respect from players and fans alike and to not be seen to pussy foot around senior players in case they get upset..... the next manager shouldnt be appointed just because they may or may not put an extra 2k bums on seats.....you could have bp full and rocking with 10k fans every home game....but it would count for nothing if the manager cant get the team to play and progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Maybe. However I know at least one person who would go (maybe even buy a ST) if Stitch was appointed. If every other one of the current 4k could say the same thing then we would have 6k. I can picture this being the case with Ritchie, but certianly not Jim Gannon (who the f**k is he?? ). In reality, there is no way every other person is going to entice a mate to BP on the strength that Andy Ritchie is back as manager. Good football, goals and promotion could see a significant increase in gates, and who is to say ritchie won't produce these necessary factors? That said, Jim Gannon is already proving he has what it takes - without letting sentiment cloud our vision. I know three people who won't return until ANY new manager arrives, so on the basis of your own maths Stitch, 7000 is achievable if we got M**re back! Personally, I would be ok with either, but I'm leaning a lot more heavilly toward JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I know three people who won't return until ANY new manager arrives Who? Who? Is one of them Rez? I bet the people sat around him are the Shez Inners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Who? Who? Is one of them Rez? I bet the people sat around him are the Shez Inners Rez has indeed stated his intent to stay at home in future - as have Jimmy Elliott and Andy Holland. I would do the same if it were not for my ST. ps. There is NOBODY sits near Rez (For obvious reasons!) - would you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Jim Gannon seems a good shout to me... what about Keith Hill? Or is that just a ridiculous and silly suggestion? He has certainly done very well at Dale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Jim Gannon seems a good shout to me... what about Keith Hill? Or is that just a ridiculous and silly suggestion? He has certainly done very well at Dale. He has - I'd prefer someone with experience at this level though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) an extra 2k on the gate if ritchie was manager...that may or may not be the case....although i would much prefer the club to appoint a manager on his managemnt record and or potential rather than how many extra fans would come back to bp. if you said big joe was back and it would give us an extra 3k fans great,but if they cant do the job and cant get us to where we want to be then whats the point.... the next manager shouldnt be appointed just because they may or may not put an extra 2k bums on seats.....you could have bp full and rocking with 10k fans every home game....but it would count for nothing if the manager cant get the team to play and progress. I have suggested Andy Ritchie, not Roger Palmer. Andy Ritchie is a decent manager. Why the need to say it three times? we have been down the fans favourite route,and it doesnt work....and hasnt worked....shez has got us into a fantastic position on more than 1 occasion,but is sadly lacking in taking it that little bit further... we have also been down the appoint someone who doesnt have a history with the club route and that didnt work. Which would suggest to me it is irrelevant either way. Although I would argue that inexperienced appointments from within have done better than all the others over recent years....have you forgotten about Dowie? Shez has gotten us into some fantastic positions hasn't he? He might not have finished the job (yet), but at least he has gone close. Maybe Stitch could bring the best traits of both?? and it seems you dont even want to try... I have tried a number of times - you don't want to know. Edited March 11, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have suggested Andy Ritchie, not Roger Palmer. Andy Ritchie is a decent manager. Why the need to say it three times? Which would suggest to me it is irrelevant either way. Although I would argue that inexperienced appointments from within have done better than all the others over recent years....have you forgotten about Dowie? Shez has gotten us into some fantastic positions hasn't he? He might not have finished the job (yet), but at least he has gone close. Maybe Stitch could bring the best traits of both?? thats true..but getting close isnt good enough now....we have been getting close for 3 seasons and no further....we got close with dowie....but not the full shibang.... all i am saying is....a manager should be appointed on his ability to deliver a team that plays good football and has the credentials to take a club forward to a higher division not someone who is a crowd pleaser or just to put bums on seats... current managers operating like this with a certain degree of success are gannon and hill at rochdale.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Therein lies the problem with my argument. I'm reliant on the people of Oldham actually knowing about football. Whilst I'd be in no way heartbroken by Ritchie's reappointment, and I'm clearly not taking into account the fact he's gained experience since, I wasn't overly enamoured by him first time around. (In fact, his unwillingness to make substitutions when they were necessary almost had me thrown out of the Main Stand on numerous occasions.) Of course, there's the fact that he'd be in charge of a better squad with better owners above his head. This may well be a telling factor. In summary, I'd have either of 'em I'd have either too, both would be good appointments IMO. I will say that being just 25 I was only 14-17 during Ritchies tenure and didn't know enough about the game or pay enough attention to have a worthwhile opinion on the finer points of his management. I still knew the players though and looking back at the squads he had he must have done something right! If he came back he would offer everything he did then plus a lot more, and I have no doubt that his appointment would put more bums on seats than any, bar Royle. That would surely be a fundamental consideration in any appointment given the shocking crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 all i am saying is....a manager should be appointed on his ability to deliver a team that plays good football and has the credentials to take a club forward to a higher division not someone who is a crowd pleaser or just to put bums on seats... current managers operating like this with a certain degree of success are gannon and hill at rochdale.... I reckon anybody impartial would have Shez in alongside Hill on those criteria. As for Gannon, well I've seen Stockport twice this season and seen one good half from them. At BP they looked like 11 kids well out of their depth with not a chest between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 As for Gannon, well I've seen Stockport twice this season and seen one good half from them. At BP they looked like 11 kids well out of their depth with not a chest between them. I think their financial problems were well and truly coming home to roost at dressing room level the week before they arrived at BP (where they were outclassed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I think their financial problems were well and truly coming home to roost at dressing room level the week before they arrived at BP (where they were outclassed). They still played all the football though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'd have either too, both would be good appointments IMO. I will say that being just 25 I was only 14-17 during Ritchies tenure and didn't know enough about the game or pay enough attention to have a worthwhile opinion on the finer points of his management. I still knew the players though and looking back at the squads he had he must have done something right! If he came back he would offer everything he did then plus a lot more, and I have no doubt that his appointment would put more bums on seats than any, bar Royle. That would surely be a fundamental consideration in any appointment given the shocking crowds. The fundamental flaw in the ritchie would put bums back on seats arguement is that when Ritchie became manager the crowds went down. Now maybe Joe Royle might capture the imagination however this will only be the initial impact over the first few games after the initial honeymoon period was over unless we were playing great football the crowds would drop back down to the levels they once were. Now of course we still have a manager and a man who I really want to succeed too given his service to the club. But if Oldham and John Sheridan were to go their seperate ways then the man coming in has to be given time to make an impact I do wonder these days about if Fergie or Joe had been starting out today wether or not they would have got the time they did to build what they achieved. We also have to accept the whole package with Gannon it would be that he can be abit gobby, Ritchie was accused of many of the same things shez did. Dowie goes through clubs like Tiger Woods and if he came back and had an impact don't be surprised to see him touting himself around plus we didnt always play pretty football under him we often won ugly. Aidy Boothroyd would arguably prefer a win at all costs mentality and the football maybe less attractive. Even Royle was accused of not spending wisely when he had the big money. All these things are worth bearing in mind when we want shot of a manager and when we make our choice for a new one and sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the otherside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penrhyn Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 If Shezz does go, does anyone think we might go for a Royle - Ritchie combo until the end of the season. To buy some time and maybe make the right appointment, games are coming thick and fast now. I just feel any permanent appointment made now if in fact needed would take up a lot of resources and time. Unless of course TTA have successions planned and have someone already in mind ie Jim Gannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 They still played all the football though... At BP? I didn't see it that way. That said, to be fair, what I have seen of them over the last 12 months has impressed me greatly. I would question the "keep it on the floor" tactic when your home ground represents something between a swamp and a beach!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Bosnian Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Dave Pace would do a good job for us, he doesn't stand for any messing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 when Ritchie became manager the crowds went down. Were crowds not higher under Ritchie than they are now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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