Simple Question

[opinions4u]

I think TTA need to consider what Joe Royle is asking for budget wise very carefully.

 

I have a gut feeling that if he says that's what's needed to get out of this division, he's probably right.

 

And with a lesser manager it would probably need to be more.

 

Totally agree - not sure why Diego has it in for Joe with his sniping comments and "advice" on man management.

One thing Joe does tend to do is say nice things about individual players when talking to the press. Off the record comments such as this could undermine the work done elsewhere, and I think he'll know that.

 

I'm resigned to the playing side needing an almighty clearout. Which is a shame, because as a set of individuals there is a decent amount of talent. Gone to waste.

Edited April 25, 2009 by opinions4u

[Delfer]

The "chicken :censored:" comment was nothing to do with laying down the law and, although it referred to what we all know, it was unlikely to bring the best out of the players.

 

In fact the chicken :censored: comment is just a more polite way of saying "you can't polish a turd"

[edhunteruk]

I think TTA need to consider what Joe Royle is asking for budget wise very carefully.

 

I have a gut feeling that if he says that's what's needed to get out of this division, he's probably right.

 

And with a lesser manager it would probably need to be more.

 

i think he will ask for a very decent budget,as he knows exactly what its going to take and cost,to get out of this :censored:hole....if the tta's are with it and in agreement,i cant see them not backing him.

 

the only problem i can see,is if they say no,we dont want to spend that much,then joe will simply say,tell you what,im not going to try to make it work on peanuts,let someone else have a go.

 

then i think we really are going to be down for a season of struggle.

[Delfer]

I think TTA need to consider what Joe Royle is asking for budget wise very carefully.

 

I have a gut feeling that if he says that's what's needed to get out of this division, he's probably right.

 

And with a lesser manager it would probably need to be more.

 

 

One thing Joe does tend to do is say nice things about individual players when talking to the press. Off the record comments such as this could undermine the work done elsewhere, and I think he'll know that.

 

I'm resigned to the playing side needing an almighty clearout. Which is a shame, because as a set of individuals there is a decent amount of talent. Gone to waste.

 

Another who knows more than Joe about the job, you should apply, Joe would be :censored:ting his kecks

[singe]

I think TTA need to consider what Joe Royle is asking for budget wise very carefully.

 

I have a gut feeling that if he says that's what's needed to get out of this division, he's probably right.

 

And with a lesser manager it would probably need to be more.

 

 

One thing Joe does tend to do is say nice things about individual players when talking to the press. Off the record comments such as this could undermine the work done elsewhere, and I think he'll know that.

 

I'm resigned to the playing side needing an almighty clearout. Which is a shame, because as a set of individuals there is a decent amount of talent. Gone to waste

Another who knows more than Joe about the job, you should apply, Joe would be :censored:ting his kecks

Can't speak for O4U, but I think you have completely misinterpretted his post Delfer. I read it as a shame Joe has to do the clear out, as individually there are good players in there. The issue being the players own attitude. On paper it should be good. Especially the defence, Stam, Gregan, Eardley, Jones, Lomax all have enough skill for this division, they just don't seem to be able to put in a joined up performance or a run of joined up performances. For two very different managers points at the players.

[singe]

The "chicken :censored:" comment was nothing to do with laying down the law and, although it referred to what we all know, it was unlikely to bring the best out of the players

In fact the chicken :censored: comment is just a more polite way of saying "you can't polish a turd"

 

I have to say I am suprised at Diego's reaction to this.

IT was not a public comment, there has been plenty of praise. But that has failed.

It was not an of the record comment.

It was a private comment, and should be treated as such. Although quite possibly it was said, we have absolutely no proof it was said.

And should be treated with as such, as a minor part.

 

 

Even the person who said it used the word apparently, so is not so sure.

 

Given Joe's record of getting the best out of mediocre players, I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Most importantly, what if this really gets into his mind, and what he is really thinking? A good thing surely, as is probably very close to the truth!

[singe]

simple question what

as j r done that sheridan didnt answer nothing!!!!

 

WEll I can think of a few., just off the top of my head like.

1. Got rid of Windass. Not the best signing in OAFC history. Would have cost a fortune.

2. Got rid of Hughes. Who was very dis-interested in his own career at OAFC, and had been in freefall for months. And would not have been here in a few weeks as he refused our contract offer.

3. Released Liddell. Who was a great servant, but a season too far. Would have been on significant wages.

4. Got rid of Josh Bell, who no one at the club rated.

5. Got rid of Kabba. Who was not contributing enough.

6 Gave Lee a chance to prove himself

7. Was prepared to give Stephens a chance

8. Gave articulate interviews.

9. Identified the problems in about 5 minutes.

10. Did not go to Belle Vue.

11. Did not waste the family silver of pointless loans signing.

12. Did not play Budtz ahead of Flemming.

 

Obviosuly I could list about 50 more if you are intersted.

 

That is not to say Joe at all costs. hE has to be realistic about his budget. We (and the TTA) cannot afford Championship wages for another season.

 

EDIT. Crikey, I almost forgot about Seb Hines....

Edited April 26, 2009 by singe

[opinions4u]

Another who knows more than Joe about the job, you should apply, Joe would be :censored:ting his kecks

I do know a bit about man-management and motivation and getting the sum total of a team to add up to more than the sum of its individual talents, but doubt very much I would succeed as a football manager because despite my fairly decent footballing brain I have a problem that my feet rarely kick the round bally thing in to exactly the same space that the grey matter thinks it should go. Most football managers have a degree of talent themselves, I don't. So Joe should not be ":censored:ting his kecks" at the thought I may usurp him in some way.

 

I'm guessing you misunderstood my post in some way as your response took me by surprise. So I'll try to clarify it.

 

I think TTA need to consider what Joe Royle is asking for budget wise very carefully. I have a gut feeling that if he says that's what's needed to get out of this division, he's probably right.

I think Joe Royle has a decent idea what he wants to achieve next season. I think he probably now knows the nucleus of the team that he needs to deliver that and I think that he knows exactly how much it will cost.

 

And with a lesser manager it would probably need to be more.

I think Joe Royle is the man to do the job. A lesser manager (which all other candidates who could realistically be attracted to BP probably are) would need to spend more to get the same results. I hope TTA realise this and I hope they remain committed to the club, despite the personal financial cost that this could place on them.

 

One thing Joe does tend to do is say nice things about individual players when talking to the press. Off the record comments such as this (chicken :censored:) could undermine the work done elsewhere, and I think he'll know that.

I'm assuming this paragraph naffed you off in some way. But it really is quite simple. Joe Royle does try to big up players who he feels have contributed well when talking to the press. Read all the match reports on the club's official site and you will see this. It's a good management technique. It should make those individuals feel good about themselves and want to repeat the good things again next game. By comparison, Shez rarely did this and would often name and shame an individual where he felt the side had been let down.

 

The "chicken :censored:" comment was, I believe, not meant for public consumption. But it landed on here. Whether it is accurate or not, we don't actually know, but I will assume it is. Let's also assume the players have got wind of it - either told it by Joe or somebody else. It conflicts with what he's saying publicly at an individual level. It's a sweeping statement. It potentially undermines all those in the squad and negates the impact of the positive stroking I've just referred to. This could explain recent results on the pitch in some way. Assuming he gets his budget and takes the job I'm not particularly concerned as it all sits within the confines of this season. But if he gets his budget and builds his own team for next season, I expect to see a close knit team fighting for the cause. I would be very surprised to see Joe make similar comments about his own team.

 

I'm resigned to the playing side needing an almighty clearout. Which is a shame, because as a set of individuals there is a decent amount of talent. Gone to waste.

Maybe I've been looking through the rose tinted specs this season. But I think we've got 15 or 16 players at the club who, individually, are good enough to have got us out of this league. They have the ability but somewhere in that dressing room a spirit has died. That little extra "oomph" that brings out a performance when you really need it. I look at the goalkeeper (Fleming) and the back four (including Jones) and see decent footballers who keep getting it wrong. I look across the middle four (Smalley on the right) and see pacy wingers, Whitaker who can get forward and Allott (last season's best player) and wonder how it doesn't gel when it has so much to offer. And I look at the way we've failed to match Hughes to a strike partner despite bringing in loan players from a higher level and having a range of in house options.

 

Why this lot have lacked the team spirit and determination needed, why they have lacked the ability to drag out a result when it's been hard going has been something of a mystery to me. Some would say it's becasue they are crap. They might be right, but I think the problem lies deeper within the dynamics of the dressing room.

 

Why haven't they delivered for Joe Royle? Maybe it's because he has shaken that dressing room so hard that too many of them realise that they don't have a future here. Perhaps the worst outcome of hit return would have been for him to take them up via the play-offs and stick with them for next season though.

 

I think Joe Royle and his budget are what Latics need next season.

 

It doesn't mean he should be above criticism or questioning though.

Edited April 26, 2009 by opinions4u

[singe]

Can I just nail my thoughts to the chicken :censored: statement. Not spefically at you O4U.

How can they blame the performances under Joe to this comment, players that do that are deliberately shirking the issues.

It is beyond comprehension that professinal footballers would sulk for 2 weeks about a private comment.

And the whole team?

And how does that explain the fact the performances were the same for the 3 months (or more if you are really anti Shez!) before the comment was made.

 

I have staff like this, blame everyone, everything, pick up on any comment and blame eveyone but themselves for their actions. Sums up the past few seasons if true. I just don't beleive it is true, they are not that soft.

Edited April 26, 2009 by singe

[oafc0000]

The "chicken :censored:" comment was nothing to do with laying down the law and, although it referred to what we all know, it was unlikely to bring the best out of the players.

 

Right...we get it diego...you dont want Joe as manager but please stop the sniping....

[edhunteruk]

Can I just nail my thoughts to the chicken :censored: statement. Not spefically at you O4U.

How can they blame the performances under Joe to this comment, players that do that are deliberately shirking the issues.

It is beyond comprehension that professinal footballers would sulk for 2 weeks about a private comment.

And the whole team?

And how does that explain the fact the performances were the same for the 3 months (or more if you are really anti Shez!) before the comment was made.

 

I have staff like this, blame everyone, everything, pick up on any comment and blame eveyone but themselves for their actions. Sums up the past few seasons if true. I just don't beleive it is true, they are not that soft.

 

 

oh i dont know....there are a few young players in this squad that by all accounts,act as naughty schoolboys and abuse the position they are in,because they have no conception of normallity in there lives,they live inside a little bubble where everything is rosey because of the job they are doing.

 

in normal life,if you act the way they have this season,a co worker would of took them to one side by now and said look,you either pull your finger out and get with it,work together or we will leave you out to hang and let you hang yourself or shoot yourself in the foot.

 

anybody who has ever had responibility for staff will tell you the same,if the softly softly nice approach doesnt work,you then set them targets to achieve on a daily basisi,if this still has no effect you have another word and tell them straight,you either buck up or your gone,if they still refuse to cooperate,you give them enough rope to hang themself.

 

the simple facts are joe already knows that there not good enough,and if we did have a ressie team thats where they would be,as we havent they will soon find themself on union street clutching a p45,waiting for the job centre to open...chris hall being a prime example.

[Delfer]

Quote - The "chicken :censored:" comment was, I believe, not meant for public consumption. But it landed on here. Whether it is accurate or not, we don't actually know, but I will assume it is. Let's also assume the players have got wind of it

 

Well you do have a high and mighty opinion of yourself but then again anyone who calls themselves "opinions for you" would have I suppose. I would have thought however that anyone with your self accalimed management skills would know the dangers of assumption, yet your criticism as mentioned above is built on 2 major ones.

 

Key flaw sunshine. Don't expect it to dent your ego however. Maybe Joe might let you be his number 2 perhaps?

[singe]

Quote - The "chicken :censored:" comment was, I believe, not meant for public consumption. But it landed on here. Whether it is accurate or not, we don't actually know, but I will assume it is. Let's also assume the players have got wind of it

 

 

Well you do have a high and mighty opinion of yourself but then again anyone who calls themselves "opinions for you" would have I suppose. I would have thought however that anyone with your self accalimed management skills would know the dangers of assumption, yet your criticism as mentioned above is built on 2 major ones.

 

Key flaw sunshine. Don't expect it to dent your ego however. Maybe Joe might let you be his number 2 perhaps?

You two got history then?

[Delfer]

You two got history then?

 

Not particularly, just different opinions and I don't have as many

[opinions4u]

You two got history then?

Not until now it would seem.

 

I would have thought however that anyone with your self accalimed management skills would know the dangers of assumption, yet your criticism as mentioned above is built on 2 major ones.

I am fully aware of the dangers of making assumptions. That's why I used the word "assume" on numerous occasions to put the whole situation in context. If you don't get it after fairly straight forward explanations, then so be it.

 

Key flaw sunshine. Don't expect it to dent your ego however. Maybe Joe might let you be his number 2 perhaps?

You really are being a bit pointless over this.

 

Your choice.

Edited April 26, 2009 by opinions4u

[singe]

Not particularly, just different opinions and I don't have as many

So your problem is just his name? I am mildly amused by you criticising someone for "opinions", "ego's" and " I don't have as many" opinnions from what I ahve seen of your posts.

Edited April 26, 2009 by singe

[Delfer]

So your problem is just his name?

 

I don't have a problem just a different opinion and not as many (as you can see from his postings) as him. So stop stirring it.

[opinions4u]

I apologise for the naff name and for posting messages on a messageboard.

[oafc0000]

I apologise for the naff name and for posting messages on a messageboard.

 

I am fast learning Delfer is best ignored...I invite you to do the same...

[singe]

I am fast learning Delfer is best ignored...I invite you to do the same...

I have just had a look at some of his posts now. Imgaine being told off for stirring it by Delfer. Crikey.

 

I realise where he is coming from. He is the everyone-else-is-wrong-on-the-internet type.

[Delfer]

I have just had a look at some of his posts now. Imgaine being told off for stirring it by Delfer. Crikey.

 

I realise where he is coming from. He is the everyone-else-is-wrong-on-the-internet type.

 

Not at all singe, read some more and you'll find me agreeing with you on more than one occasion.

 

I hope you two/three feel better, like childish girls in the playground. You're even crap at bullying!

[oafcprozac]

Totally agree - not sure why Diego has it in for Joe with his sniping comments and "advice" on man management.

 

Diego's still sulking as he missed all the fun when the :censored: hit the fan the weekend of 14-15th March, denying him the chance to reach 700,000 OWTB Posts, the booker prize for literature and an ordination from the Pope.

 

On the plus side he got the chance to get pissed with the Shamrock Rovers lot!

[boundaryblue80]

WEll I can think of a few., just off the top of my head like.

1. Got rid of Windass. Not the best signing in OAFC history. Would have cost a fortune.

2. Got rid of Hughes. Who was very dis-interested in his own career at OAFC, and had been in freefall for months. And would not have been here in a few weeks as he refused our contract offer.

3. Released Liddell. Who was a great servant, but a season too far. Would have been on significant wages.

4. Got rid of Josh Bell, who no one at the club rated.

5. Got rid of Kabba. Who was not contributing enough.

6 Gave Lee a chance to prove himself

7. Was prepared to give Stephens a chance

8. Gave articulate interviews.

9. Identified the problems in about 5 minutes.

10. Did not go to Belle Vue.

11. Did not waste the family silver of pointless loans signing.

12. Did not play Budtz ahead of Flemming.

 

Obviosuly I could list about 50 more if you are intersted.

 

That is not to say Joe at all costs. hE has to be realistic about his budget. We (and the TTA) cannot afford Championship wages for another season.

 

EDIT. Crikey, I almost forgot about Seb Hines....

Agree with all that apart from Lids being a great servant.

 

And the bit missed...

 

INJURIES!!! Joe's had a terrible run of them since arriving, after other players leaving who needed to. Sad to see a few of the kids not step up and take their chance but both confidence and burn-out will be kicking in for some and after our season capitulating, it's no surprise Joe's had a very very difficult task. Anyone who says he's not good enough no all and will probably jump for joy at someone like Jim Gannon arriving. A bit like they did when Ronnie arrived...and likewise, 12mths down the line they'll be jumping up and down, throwing toys out and getting them sacked again....

 

More of the same...unless we keep hold of the best manager we could've asked for (regardless of history)...sadly, it's at the wrong time as TTA, IMO, won't give Royle anything like an decent budget to challenge and thus around we go again!

[IsleOfWightBlue]

i think he will ask for a very decent budget,as he knows exactly what its going to take and cost,to get out of this :censored:hole....if the tta's are with it and in agreement,i cant see them not backing him.

 

the only problem i can see,is if they say no,we dont want to spend that much,then joe will simply say,tell you what,im not going to try to make it work on peanuts,let someone else have a go.

 

then i think we really are going to be down for a season of struggle.

 

 

100% agree ... If JR isnt given what he believes he needs then its going to be grim .

 

[Diego_Sideburns]

On the plus side he got the chance to get pissed with the Shamrock Rovers lot!

 

Piss-ups with Shamrock Rovers and Burton Albion! Next season some of the Shamrock Rovers lot will be over to support 'Dale against either Latics or the Brewers for another piss-up. Can't wait for the fixtures.