GlossopLatic Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Is this the approach we are taking next season? If so I think its a good one, It seems to be reported that Dave Penney has been brought in because he knows abit about non-league and can unearth us some gems. As good a servents for the club as Allot and Gregan have both been what is the incentive for these guys to get us promoted? Will they both be looking to step up a level when they are the wrong side of 30 as their powers will be receeding and their opponents will be tougher they won't be wanted by the club then. We are better off bringing in players of about mid twenties downwards who in 2-3 years can see themselves as chamionship players or even above. Players like this have every incentive to get us promoted. Peterborough showed us how it is done get a group of talented young players who have the hunger and desire to make a career in football and get them to gel as a team. Plus if you get players in the earyand mid twenties age brackets even if you stay down they are still going to be young enough to give it another go. Hopefully next season we will see a side full of potential that can grow up together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellys_discopants Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Less loan players this season please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 That aswell all very well having a few loan players here to supplement the squad but no point stock piling them as long term their ambitions aren't with the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Is this the approach we are taking next season? If so I think its a good one, It seems to be reported that Dave Penney has been brought in because he knows abit about non-league and can unearth us some gems. As good a servents for the club as Allot and Gregan have both been what is the incentive for these guys to get us promoted? Will they both be looking to step up a level when they are the wrong side of 30 as their powers will be receeding and their opponents will be tougher they won't be wanted by the club then. We are better off bringing in players of about mid twenties downwards who in 2-3 years can see themselves as chamionship players or even above. Players like this have every incentive to get us promoted. Peterborough showed us how it is done get a group of talented young players who have the hunger and desire to make a career in football and get them to gel as a team. Plus if you get players in the earyand mid twenties age brackets even if you stay down they are still going to be young enough to give it another go. Hopefully next season we will see a side full of potential that can grow up together. Spot on and history backs this up. When we were last promoted from this league to what is now the championship, Friz had a nucleus of young hungry players and players who were not catching at a higher level ala Ogden (who came in for the experienced Harry Dowd (Boo) who broke a finger at Port vale on new years day and became part of a team that won 10 successive league games) Keith Hicks, Colin Garwood, Alan Groves, Ian Robins et al. Allied to some semi senior players in the likes of George McVitie and Dick Mulvaney and a player in Tony Bailey signed from Derby County in mid season that team of mainly hungry youngsters and mid 20's players stormed to the title. The following season, when we were looking to establish ourselves at the higher level, Friz brought in the likes of John Hurst from Everton, a very experienced pro who helped steady the ship and provide stability and a platform to improve season upon season. When Royle came in he basically did the same. The team he had that 1st season was made up mainly of young hungry kids, the likes of Paul Atkinson, John Ryan, John Bowden etc. When, at the end of that season we were forced to sell Ryan, Atkinson, and Roger Wylde, Royle turned to experience to once again steady the ship bringing in the likes of Martin Buchan and Donachie. As he steadied the ship in those testing financial times he eventually turned to the hungry younger players again. The likes of Irwin, Barret, Adams, Marshall, Warhurst, Barlow, Milligan, Henry, mixed in with players in their mid to late 20's, the likes of Bunn, Ritchie, Hallworth, Rhodes, Palmer and Redfearn. Lats season for me we had too much "too old" experience, players who if we had gone up were unlikely to make the step with the team and I said in my post the other day after Gregan was released that we were obviously looking to reduce the average age of our experienced players from 32-34 to 28/9-31/2. My signature states "Young untried managers make the most successful Latics Bosses - Jimmy Friz, Big Joe, Davros, Shez" The reality is that it is the same with players. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 The major thing that I had with Sheridan (as a very big fan of him) was the drinking culture in the club. This went from Sheridan himself, and was the main reason I can see as to why Gregan left (along with for loan - Hughes). All I ask is for a more disciplined ship. Be them young, old, middle of their career; talented or cheap cloggers. Get this sorted and the place will do better on that count. Whether Penney is better at other aspects of management remains to be seen. But the main worry for me is what the budget is to be in relation to others. But, hey, we have little idea what that will be either (and being honest in alot of ways I would rather it was cloth cutting rather than extravagent). What I'm saying is, in the words of Manuel, "I know nothing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-Mist Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 there was a great problem at the club with a boozing culture - my mate at work went to school in manc with the Sheridan clan and they are all a rum bunch believe me based on the tales he tells ! the Belle Vue dogs fiasco was just an accident waiting to happen and it showed that we had a bunch of hard drinking bullies in the club. Thank god DP aka DeNiro has got rid.. however would like to see some signings soon as aint got ST yet and would like to see a few names on shirts before I part with hard-earned for new season. Was seriously p***ed off with way last season fizzled out although writing was on wall since christmas. We need DeNiro to rekindle the fire and restore the faith ........ lets see some signings please and then I may be tempted to renew................ hanging on to the faith .... just ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Surely the season before last we had too many young players in the side and thats why we didn't get into the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Surely the season before last we had too many young players in the side and thats why we didn't get into the playoffs? It's a balance as I said above. But mainly young & hungry with not too much "too old" experienced heads mixed in. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 It's a balance as I said above. But mainly young & hungry with not too much "too old" experienced heads mixed in. Cheers, Harry I apologise I hadn't read your post, agree that a balance needs to be achieved and hunger within the player is needed, young or old. We need winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Surely the season before last we had too many young players in the side and thats why we didn't get into the playoffs? Not really. We had too many injuries to the more experienced players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Not really. We had too many injuries to the more experienced players. Who couldn't hack it in the end this season? I think this season we had a very good blend of youth and experience. Just that the players that were here didn't have the right attitude on/off the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Who couldn't hack it in the end this season? I think this season we had a very good blend of youth and experience. Just that the players that were here didn't have the right attitude on/off the pitch. No, who were dropped or played intermittently for most of the season. In one case particularly, despite a very promising start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 No, who were dropped or played intermittently for most of the season. In one case particularly, despite a very promising start. Or stopped trying the moment that the manager was a goner/when a new temporary manager came in. Why bother risking injury for a manager, that in the long run, is going to have no effect on your career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Or stopped trying the moment that the manager was a goner/when a new temporary manager came in. Why bother risking injury for a manager, that in the long run, is going to have no effect on your career? No point going over old ground too thoroughly, but Hughes/Allessandra was our best forward partnership at the start of the season. It was disrupted, for no other apparant reason than to bring in 'bigger' names on loan, who are well documented and never delivered. As for the end of the season, I could see the outcome after the Bristol Rovers game. I felt then we would never do it. But I never imagined it would be as bad as it was! I believe that the decision to sack Sheridan was the right one, and that we're further forward as a result. And I have high hopes for next season, but that's nothing new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 While I agree with much said in the OP, i think we shouldnt be too cynical about the old players. I dont buy into this "oh I am going to not play properly because if we get promoted I wont get a game". Even if they dont get a game for the team they help get promoted that season they are more than likely going to fix themselves up with another club with a promotion on there CV. Surely thats better than helping a side to mid table then getting released no? IMO the likes of Allott and Gregan have given their all, and are now deemed not good enough by the new manager, rather than old pros trying to avoid promotion in order to prelong their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 No point going over old ground too thoroughly, but Hughes/Allessandra was our best forward partnership at the start of the season. It was disrupted, for no other apparant reason than to bring in 'bigger' names on loan, who are well documented and never delivered. Millwall and Scunthorpe at home aside, when did this partnership truly flourish? I didn't go to every game last season so please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Millwall and Scunthorpe at home aside, when did this partnership truly flourish? I didn't go to every game last season so please enlighten me. It didnt, but if you look at stats and stats alone it apparently did. I think if you look at the stats the only reason we dropped down the league like we did was Lewis being dropped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Millwall and Scunthorpe at home aside, when did this partnership truly flourish? I didn't go to every game last season so please enlighten me. It didnt, but if you look at stats and stats alone it apparently did. I think if you look at the stats the only reason we dropped down the league like we did was Lewis being dropped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakefield-oldham Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 this is fast approaching to be one of the most critical stages this club has ever had. with all the experienced players gone and imo rightly so,its going to be a very short summer for dp to get a team together that is gonna gel for the start of the season out of the current crop thats left at the club i can only see 4 or maybe 5 of them getting in the team,so this leaves 6 players who will have to be signed and formed into some sort of a team,,and this includes a new club captain we are looking at a brand new team to start the season and if dp doesnt get the correct players in, then the season could be over before its begun im a little sceptical if all the experienced players should have been off loaded at the same time although i agree those who have been released,should have,,,,but all at the same time? dp has my full support and i just hope hes got what it takes to bring all these players together in such a short space of time looking forward to the new season,,but just a little concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Surely the season before last we had too many young players in the side and thats why we didn't get into the playoffs? The irony being that when we tended to rely on those younger players more, we got more points. When the oldies were on the pitch we were actually fighting a relegation battle. Millwall and Scunthorpe at home aside, when did this partnership truly flourish? The statistics for points and goals per game (and this applies to the end of 2007/8 as well) when Lewis Alessandra starts are higher. I actually wasted an hour on a Sunday morning checking it out with a geeky spreadsheet and the difference was quite stunning. Regretably the spreadsheet lives on an old laptop that died and I can't be arsed rebuilding it. One of the key numbers that came out of it was that the Alessandra/Hughes partnership at the start of the season was producing 90% more goals than Davies/Hughes did the previous season and also around 50% more points. Lee Hughes has been quoted as saying Alessandra is his preferred strike partner. To answer your question - when did it get a bleedin' chance to flourish? - Millwall home - a spectacular half hour - Leeds away - the second goal tells you everything about Alessandra. Taylor cuts in from the left and curls it in to the top corner with his right. LA never touches the ball but his work off the ball takes a defender away from Taylor. - Cheltenham at home it worked well and I'm sure LA laid off 2 of the goals for Hughes in that. - Scunthorpe - nuff said. I didn't go to Hartlepool, but by all accounts it worked rather well in the first 45 mniutes. We're probably looking at a good half of the games that they played together where it worked for the team and it worked for the partnership. Show me a team with a 50% win ratio and I show you a team that will get in to the top 4 or 5 in its division. The other point about Alessandra is what he gives to the midfield. He gives them a break. He gets the ball, holds it up, takes the pressure off them and then brings them back in to the game - not as a line across the middle but as a threat in and around the box. Whitaker in particular was a beneficiary of this. Compared (rather generously) to Wellens on these boards when Alessandra was starting games. The invisible man when LA was dropped. Our midfield struggled more once Alessandra was left out of the starting line up. Hughes in particular was left isolated. It's very rare that any side will have 2 strikers who can score 20 each in a season. But if you've got one who can finish as well as Hughes did and another who'll chip in with 10-12 and lay on a similar number for midfielders to knock in the net you have the makings of success. If we'd stuck with Hughes / Lewis (allowing for occasional rotation with O'Grady/Davies) we'd have played a game this week that would have seen the winner in the play-off finals. The best striker in the division? No. But one of the most significant contributors to the wider success of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 It didnt, but if you look at stats and stats alone it apparently did. I think if you look at the stats the only reason we dropped down the league like we did was Lewis being dropped Stats can be manipulated in anyway anyone wants to use them. For example, Darren Byfield played eight games for us last season and was never on the losing side, but I've yet to hear one Latics fans say we should have kept him, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Stats can be manipulated in anyway anyone wants to use them. For example, Darren Byfield played eight games for us last season and was never on the losing side, but I've yet to hear one Latics fans say we should have kept him, A fit Byfield who could last 90 minutes would be an asset at this level. When he was with us he was gone by the hour mark. I seem to recall we drew most of the games he played! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 A fit Byfield who could last 90 minutes would be an asset at this level. When he was with us he was gone by the hour mark. I seem to recall we drew most of the games he played! We won four and drew four. Promotion form in my book. And as it happens, Hughes scored seven goals in those eight games. Stats eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) We won four and drew four. Promotion form in my book. And as it happens, Hughes scored seven goals in those eight games. Stats eh! Nice one! It certainly wasn't one I'd picked up on. Translates to 84 points a season!! Edited May 16, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Byfield was by far and away the best loanee striker - still didn't need him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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