Hardy: More signings expected to arrive next week

[Diego_Sideburns]

Tonight's rarely wrong Chron says strikers and centre-backs are at the top of manager Dave Penney’s hit-list as the new Athletic boss continues to shape his squad for next season.

 

Penney has lodged interest in a host of players and is awaiting responses as he has the scope to bring in about half-a-dozen new outfield recruits, plus goalkeeping back-up for Fleming.

 

Alan Hardy says “We would have liked to have completed more transfer business by now as it obviously creates interest. But we will not be rushed into things and I expect more new players to be arriving next week.”

[Blue_tak]

The squad is looking pretty thin on the ground, at the moment, in all areas.

Goalkeepers: Greg Fleming.

 

Defenders: Neal Eardley, Kelvin Lomax, Reuben Hazell and Paul Black.

 

Midfielders: Jon Worthington, Danny Whitaker, Chris Taylor, Kieran Lee and Dale Stephens.

 

Forwards: Chris O’Grady, Deane Smalley, Lewis Alessandra and Matt Wolfenden (on short-term contract).

 

Plus utility man Rob Purdie and first-year professionals Ryan Brooke, Josh Ollerenshaw, Liam Dawson and Chris Rowney.

[opinions4u]

Goalkeepers: Greg Fleming.

 

Defenders: Neal Eardley, Kelvin Lomax, Reuben Hazell and Paul Black.

 

Midfielders: Jon Worthington, Danny Whitaker, Chris Taylor, Kieran Lee and Dale Stephens.

 

Forwards: Chris O’Grady, Deane Smalley, Lewis Alessandra and Matt Wolfenden (on short-term contract).

 

Plus utility man Rob Purdie and first-year professionals Ryan Brooke, Josh Ollerenshaw, Liam Dawson and Chris Rowney.

Needed:

One goalie (although he's hinted at 2)

A left back

2 x centre backs

2 x strikers (I see Smalley as a right winger)

Assumed Purdie as a midfielder.

Edited May 28, 2009 by opinions4u

[De_La_Vega]

Last year the squad was bloated and unmanageable, and if we add another 6 or 7 players we'll have exactly the same situation again. A club in our position should be using youngsters to cover the keeping position with a loan move to cover any injuries - otherwise what is the point in these kids being at the club?

 

As for transfers; I think that if we bring in a centre-half and a striker then we'll be looking at a decent squad - not great, but decent. On top of those two I'd like to see us bring in an experienced defender who can be a left-back but cover in the centre, but after that I'd stop unless we are going to start off-loading more players.

 

We currently have both full-back positions filled (albeit one of them by Lomax/Black) with cover for them both (either Lomax or Purdie), we have numerous guys who can play wide (Lee, O'Grady, Taylor, Smalley, Black & Purdie), 4 centre-mids (Stephens, Lee, Whitaker & Worthington) and 4 strikers (O'Grady, Alessandra, Wolfenden & Smalley).

 

Granted some of those are players covering multiple positions, and some are untested. However if the untested guys are so far from being ready then why are they with us, and one corrosive thing for squad morale last year seems to have been idle hands who couldn't get a game - reference Lee and Alessandra.

 

Burnley showed the benefits of squad togetherness and a belief in quality - that is something I think we should learn from. Having a massive squad just means that you have guys who can't ever play and blocks the chances of young lads coming through. If Black, Wolfy, Lomax, Stephens, Alessandra et al aren't good enough then they shouldn't be with us, and if they have the talent then get them in the team for my money.

[GlossopLatic]

The squad at the start of last season was manageable if we had a reserve team and we didn't p about with too many bad pointless loans we never maximised what we had a squad of about 6 more players gives us a squad of 25 including 4 first year proffessionals who will be playing reserve team football unless we have an outbreak of the Black death.

[opinions4u]

Last year the squad was bloated and unmanageable, and if we add another 6 or 7 players we'll have exactly the same situation again.

The resurgence of reserve team football addresses this.

 

A club in our position should be using youngsters to cover the keeping position with a loan move to cover any injuries - otherwise what is the point in these kids being at the club?

To learn their trade.

 

We currently have both full-back positions filled (albeit one of them by Lomax/Black) with cover for them both (either Lomax or Purdie).

As you hint, Lomax/Black is not a long term option at left back.

 

Granted some of those are players covering multiple positions, and some are untested. However if the untested guys are so far from being ready then why are they with us

"Ones for the future?"

 

and one corrosive thing for squad morale last year seems to have been idle hands who couldn't get a game - reference Lee and Alessandra.

Reserve team football.

 

Having a massive squad just means that you have guys who can't ever play and blocks the chances of young lads coming through.

Strength in depth is a key to gaining promotion. Nothing better than having somebody delivering the goods in a reserve team to keep up the pressure on the first team stars.

 

If Black, Wolfy, Lomax, Stephens, Alessandra et al aren't good enough then they shouldn't be with us, and if they have the talent then get them in the team for my money.

If they are good enough, they will make it. But using your logic nobody would ever progress from youth team to the first team. The gulf is simply too big. That progression takes time. Edited May 28, 2009 by opinions4u

[BigfinLatic]

Burnley showed the benefits of squad togetherness and a belief in quality - that is something I think we should learn from. Having a massive squad just means that you have guys who can't ever play and blocks the chances of young lads coming through. If Black, Wolfy, Lomax, Stephens, Alessandra et al aren't good enough then they shouldn't be with us, and if they have the talent then get them in the team for my money.

 

Nah, sorry - we desperately need quality at the mo - especially up top and in the back... i full expect Penney to sign as many players as he can...

 

Also - I dont buy the burnleh example - people whitter on about the lack of players they used and the quality... fair enough, they had an amazing core of 17/18 odd players... but the fact is there was still a bloomin youth team and reserves behind that whom just werent used. The fact is that we had to rely at the end of last year (and the year before) on players who should be reserves and youth players. If Penney signs enough quality this summer, and only uses 18 players meaning the likes of Brooke, Black, Stephens etc.. are never used, then that is fine with me.

 

Burnley got promoted as they had good players and a lot of luck with injuries... that is pretty much all we need too! Easy.

[GlossopLatic]

Nah, sorry - we desperately need quality at the mo - especially up top and in the back... i full expect Penney to sign as many players as he can...

 

Also - I dont buy the burnleh example - people whitter on about the lack of players they used and the quality... fair enough, they had an amazing core of 17/18 odd players... but the fact is there was still a bloomin youth team and reserves behind that whom just werent used. The fact is that we had to rely at the end of last year (and the year before) on players who should be reserves and youth players. If Penney signs enough quality this summer, and only uses 18 players meaning the likes of Brooke, Black, Stephens etc.. are never used, then that is fine with me.

 

Burnley got promoted as they had good players and a lot of luck with injuries... that is pretty much all we need too! Easy.

Plus if you had asked Owen Coyle at the start of last season and even now if he would have turned down an extra couple of players he would have taken it could even have got them automatic you might argue.

[Butter]

Foster from Darlo will be on me thinks.

[shefflatic]

Goalkeepers: Greg Fleming.

 

Defenders: Neal Eardley, Kelvin Lomax, Reuben Hazell and Paul Black.

 

Midfielders: Jon Worthington, Danny Whitaker, Chris Taylor, Kieran Lee and Dale Stephens.

 

Forwards: Chris O’Grady, Deane Smalley, Lewis Alessandra and Matt Wolfenden (on short-term contract).

 

Plus utility man Rob Purdie and first-year professionals Ryan Brooke, Josh Ollerenshaw, Liam Dawson and Chris Rowney.

 

PLUS:

 

1 GK

2 CB

1 LB

1 LW/RW

2 ST

 

Wolfy not included as will be gone by september, smalley can play either st or rw which helps, regard as rw primarily

Edited May 28, 2009 by shefflatic

[TheBigDog]

Needed:

One goalie (although he's hinted at 2)

A left back

2 x centre backs

2 x strikers (I see Smalley as a right winger)

Assumed Purdie as a midfielder.

 

Purdie definitely will play in midfield

 

Will we see Danny Jones back here? I still rate the lad.

[Diego_Sideburns]

In the Advertiser DP says: "There were a lot of senior players and a lot of younger players, but there was no-one inbetween and that’s a gap I’m trying to fill. Obviously, of the younger ones, Chris Taylor and Neal Eardley were named in the (league) team of the year so they have plenty of talent. I’ve also seen enough of Deane Smalley to know that he can be effective, while there’s also some youngsters below them."

 

[De_La_Vega]

I think if you look across football there will be a huge number of players who never kick on from playing reserve level football, because it is no substitute for the real thing. You talk about players "learning their trade", but how are they going to learn it in reserve team football if they haven't learnt it by their early twenties? Guys like Chris Hall, Matty Barlow and all the rest of them are perfect examples - whereas look at Tierney who is now a regular League 1 left-back through playing regularly.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think that guys like Black will come on as well through the reserves - if the lad is good enough to make it then he's good enough to be played now, or at least to be part of a squad with a realistic chance of playing. I'm not saying that these lads have to be first-team regulars, but if lads like Wolfenden, O'Grady, Alessandra, Black, Lomax and Stephens are not making a dozen or more starts in all comps across the next season then they are a waste of time.

 

As I say, if that is the case then I'll not argue, but you are wasting money if you keep them there ad infinitum.

 

Where exactly do you want these 6 players to play? Taking out the centre-half, striker and left-back that I assume we need; where are the other 3 guys going to fit in?

 

Talk about getting 2 strikers in, then where does Brooke go to play when O'Grady and Alessandra are the starting pair for the reserves? Where does Eaves get his first tastes of senior football?

 

Sorry, but 6 players is too many and you're putting too much faith in the reserves as the cure of our ills. Last year was not a mess because of the lack of a reserve team, although I'll agree that it didn't help.

[daniel8157]

I think if you look across football there will be a huge number of players who never kick on from playing reserve level football, because it is no substitute for the real thing. You talk about players "learning their trade", but how are they going to learn it in reserve team football if they haven't learnt it by their early twenties? Guys like Chris Hall, Matty Barlow and all the rest of them are perfect examples - whereas look at Tierney who is now a regular League 1 left-back through playing regularly.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think that guys like Black will come on as well through the reserves - if the lad is good enough to make it then he's good enough to be played now, or at least to be part of a squad with a realistic chance of playing. I'm not saying that these lads have to be first-team regulars, but if lads like Wolfenden, O'Grady, Alessandra, Black, Lomax and Stephens are not making a dozen or more starts in all comps across the next season then they are a waste of time.

 

As I say, if that is the case then I'll not argue, but you are wasting money if you keep them there ad infinitum.

 

Where exactly do you want these 6 players to play? Taking out the centre-half, striker and left-back that I assume we need; where are the other 3 guys going to fit in?

 

Talk about getting 2 strikers in, then where does Brooke go to play when O'Grady and Alessandra are the starting pair for the reserves? Where does Eaves get his first tastes of senior football?

 

Sorry, but 6 players is too many and you're putting too much faith in the reserves as the cure of our ills. Last year was not a mess because of the lack of a reserve team, although I'll agree that it didn't help.

 

This would be ideal if no one ever got injured or suspended, you also need to take into account form. Your best 11 will not be in from all season and may need to be droped for a couple of games.

 

Players like Black are not ready to be thrown into the team. He is someone that will progress (hopefully) with daily training, reserve matches and the odd first team game here and there. If they are then not good enough for the first team in the next couple of years, they will then be moved on

 

[jimsleftfoot]

Last year the squad was bloated and unmanageable, and if we add another 6 or 7 players we'll have exactly the same situation again. A club in our position should be using youngsters to cover the keeping position with a loan move to cover any injuries - otherwise what is the point in these kids being at the club?

 

As for transfers; I think that if we bring in a centre-half and a striker then we'll be looking at a decent squad - not great, but decent. On top of those two I'd like to see us bring in an experienced defender who can be a left-back but cover in the centre, but after that I'd stop unless we are going to start off-loading more players.

 

We currently have both full-back positions filled (albeit one of them by Lomax/Black) with cover for them both (either Lomax or Purdie), we have numerous guys who can play wide (Lee, O'Grady, Taylor, Smalley, Black & Purdie), 4 centre-mids (Stephens, Lee, Whitaker & Worthington) and 4 strikers (O'Grady, Alessandra, Wolfenden & Smalley).

 

Granted some of those are players covering multiple positions, and some are untested. However if the untested guys are so far from being ready then why are they with us, and one corrosive thing for squad morale last year seems to have been idle hands who couldn't get a game - reference Lee and Alessandra.

 

Burnley showed the benefits of squad togetherness and a belief in quality - that is something I think we should learn from. Having a massive squad just means that you have guys who can't ever play and blocks the chances of young lads coming through. If Black, Wolfy, Lomax, Stephens, Alessandra et al aren't good enough then they shouldn't be with us, and if they have the talent then get them in the team for my money.

 

Of course it is managable, how do you think the premiership sides work. The difference is how it is managed.

 

[opinions4u]

The difference is how it is managed.

Abserbloodylutely.

[De_La_Vega]

Premier League sides with large squads can afford to have entirely reserve teams - if we have the luxury of being able to fritter the cash on that then so be it.

 

As for injuries and suspensions, is that not what loans are for? Why not have a strong 1st XI that you have confidence in backed by younger lads, with the possibility of bringing people in selectively on loan to plug gaps?

 

As I see it if you buy two strikers then O'Grady, Alessandra and Wolfenden will be surplus to requirements - excepting injuries and suspensions. How better though, for Brooke to get a run in the team and play a few games than for covering just such an emergency? Alex Ferguson wanted 4 strikers back in the day - we seem to want about 6. Hmmm, but maybe it is just the way they're managed...

[Lookers_Carl]

So we want to go back to a small squad like in the ritchie days? where it was a case of if certain players were fit they played, for the simple reason their was no one else??

 

Sorry, not having that.

 

A bigger squad is necessary, especially with the transfer window. And the presence of regular reserve team football next season will give people who arent quite catching the first team a chance to impress the manager and maintain match fitness.

[BigfinLatic]

As I see it if you buy two strikers then O'Grady, Alessandra and Wolfenden will be surplus to requirements - excepting injuries and suspensions. How better though, for Brooke to get a run in the team and play a few games than for covering just such an emergency? Alex Ferguson wanted 4 strikers back in the day - we seem to want about 6. Hmmm, but maybe it is just the way they're managed...

 

You obviously have a different perspective to me - but that is exactly how I see it. My take is that O'Grady and Ales would be looking at a long hard stretch in the stiffs or will be out on loan somewhere else.

 

....and again your point is utterly flawed - Alex ferguson wants 4 strikers that PLAY - behind them you have Wellbeck, Mercheda, Manucho, Martin, Campbell... and amillion other RESERVE and YOUTH players who never see the light of day...

 

That is absolutely no different to us when you have reserves and youth - there should be some guys who just dont play... Brooke should be in the youth team, and O'Grady and Ales can happily dawdle in the stiffs and try to prove themselves.... if any of them prove themseves then great... but we still need 2 absolutely new players to make up our main strikeforce...

 

As for injuries and suspensions, is that not what loans are for? Why not have a strong 1st XI that you have confidence in backed by younger lads, with the possibility of bringing people in selectively on loan to plug gaps?

 

Exactly - this defeats your arguement immidiately, as none of the players we have can make this strong 1st 11/strikeforce whatever. Unfortunately we have a relic of a side that Penney is ripping to pieces and reshaping - that requires additions... then the dross will be sent out on loan/released etc... but to say that we dont need players for a reserve and youth team and that they all should be challenging is just wrong....

 

We just pay peanuts when the premiership pays diamonds... thats the only difference..

[Lookers_Carl]

Foster from Darlo will be on me thinks.

 

I doubt this

 

The reason being Penney has continually insisted he wants a "younger, fitter squad"

 

Foster is 34

[De_La_Vega]

Only thing is I didn't say that I thought that guys like O'Grady, Alessandra et al are good enough - but if you bring in guys above their heads then you just have a couple of lads sat earning for doing nothing. Even if they aren't good enough, I'd rather them be given a chance to prove themselves than just bypassed and left to rot. Plus I don't think O'Grady ever got a fair run in the team, and although I am far from convinced of his ability I have seen enough hard work that I'd be willing to give him the chance to fail.

 

To go back a couple too, the point is that I don't hink we have positions that are uncontested - we have a fair few players there already. The fact is that several are untried, but that is going to be worse if we bring in loads more players.

 

Besides which, nobody has answered my initial question - where do these 6 players fit in? If we add a left-back, a centre-half and a striker then that still leaves 3 outfield players who we're going to sign and I'd like to know where they're going to go rather than just being told we need them. Assuming Purdie plays wide-right then we have already got a large midfield / wide / up front contingent, but given that I rate Eardley and want to see Black play some games this year then I don't see where they all go.

[BigfinLatic]

Only thing is I didn't say that I thought that guys like O'Grady, Alessandra et al are good enough - but if you bring in guys above their heads then you just have a couple of lads sat earning for doing nothing. Even if they aren't good enough, I'd rather them be given a chance to prove themselves than just bypassed and left to rot. Plus I don't think O'Grady ever got a fair run in the team, and although I am far from convinced of his ability I have seen enough hard work that I'd be willing to give him the chance to fail.

 

Tell that to Sheridan. He brought these guys in/gave them contracts. Its now Dave Penney's team and he has no responsibility at all to play these guys if he doesnt think they are good enough. I'm not shedding a tear about that - I really really doubt you mean the fact you would like to see bad players play? I really doubt that.... theres no sentimentality in football, and I doubt DP has nay when assesing this squad...

 

To go back a couple too, the point is that I don't hink we have positions that are uncontested - we have a fair few players there already. The fact is that several are untried, but that is going to be worse if we bring in loads more players.

 

Besides which, nobody has answered my initial question - where do these 6 players fit in? If we add a left-back, a centre-half and a striker then that still leaves 3 outfield players who we're going to sign and I'd like to know where they're going to go rather than just being told we need them. Assuming Purdie plays wide-right then we have already got a large midfield / wide / up front contingent, but given that I rate Eardley and want to see Black play some games this year then I don't see where they all go.

 

I'm sorry, but this is getting as tedious as convincing the Corp that we shouldt all slit our wrists. We have answered the question - these players fit directly into our starting 11. The rubbish which is currently hear gets a stint in the ressies with the youth.. you are also totally assuming that some of the players who are currently at the club wont be shipped out for pastures new. I'm sure there are quite a few that DP wouldnt stop leaving if someone came in for a free transfer.

 

I also utterly disagree that bringing in better players is a worse idea than playing bad/unproven players that we have already. I personally wnat to see the best footballers possible in our starting 11 at the expense of anyone else... I'm sorry but I dont think that statement could be disagreed with by any other football fan out there...

 

Players such as Lomax, Black, Whitts, Lee, Stephens etc... I couldnt give a crap about sentimentality - they are all expendable.

[Guest]

Could one of these Dean Beckwith who has just left Hereford - He is 25 and 6 foot 3 central defender and has drawn the interests of a couple of clubs from league 1 and league 2 whoare looking to offer him deals according to sky sports - and he would be part of the ginger revolution

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11719_5352783,00.html

Edited May 28, 2009 by Guest

[scotty doesn't know]

I think if you look across football there will be a huge number of players who never kick on from playing reserve level football, because it is no substitute for the real thing. You talk about players "learning their trade", but how are they going to learn it in reserve team football if they haven't learnt it by their early twenties? Guys like Chris Hall, Matty Barlow and all the rest of them are perfect examples - whereas look at Tierney who is now a regular League 1 left-back through playing regularly.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think that guys like Black will come on as well through the reserves - if the lad is good enough to make it then he's good enough to be played now, or at least to be part of a squad with a realistic chance of playing. I'm not saying that these lads have to be first-team regulars, but if lads like Wolfenden, O'Grady, Alessandra, Black, Lomax and Stephens are not making a dozen or more starts in all comps across the next season then they are a waste of time.

 

As I say, if that is the case then I'll not argue, but you are wasting money if you keep them there ad infinitum.

 

Where exactly do you want these 6 players to play? Taking out the centre-half, striker and left-back that I assume we need; where are the other 3 guys going to fit in?

 

Talk about getting 2 strikers in, then where does Brooke go to play when O'Grady and Alessandra are the starting pair for the reserves? Where does Eaves get his first tastes of senior football?

 

Sorry, but 6 players is too many and you're putting too much faith in the reserves as the cure of our ills. Last year was not a mess because of the lack of a reserve team, although I'll agree that it didn't help.

you give the example of one player and players shouldnt play if they arent good enough

[opinions4u]

Lewis needs to pull his socks up based on that and previous info.. IF he doesn't respond as a better trainer (which appears the factor!!!) his career could slide.

I rate the guy, but agree completely with what you say.