Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Somebody on the internet is wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 To take the proposed new stadium from a 12,000 seat arena to a 20,000 seat arena, will cost around an extra £8 million. Where will that £8 million pounds come from? When you can answer that, we can debate the point some more. The surplus left over from the sale of the BP site....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Ok corp. Now you and me share a number of the same general concerns. However, my view tends to be, shall we say, a little more optimistic than yours So let me explain my point again just for you. Or in fact just answer this question. To take the proposed new stadium from a 12,000 seat arena to a 20,000 seat arena, will cost around an extra £8 million. Where will that £8 million pounds come from? When you can answer that, we can debate the point some more. I would at this stage rather have a 12,000 seat stadium, that can be expanded in the future, with facilities that are producing additional income streams thus making us self sufficient for £20million, than a stadium that holds 20,000 for the same £20 million pounds but doesn't produce the additional income streams so that we are reliant on either a sugar daddy type owner (i.e C.M. or TTA) or we have to cut budgets or make losses that ultimately takes us back to where we were in 2003. Cheers, Harry How do you expect me to answer where the money to build a 20,000-seater stadium is to come from? I don't know where any of the money for the current project is supposed to be coming from and, I'd guess, neither do you. People have already asked questions about where these additional income streams you mention are supposed to arise from (as well as how the Failsworth project is to be funded at all when BP was reliant on the land and hosuing surrounding it.) You could see this clearly in the BP plan, but not with this one. Apart from that, so far we have no idea even if it's a serious proposal with more potential than any of the previous blueprints that now feed the paper lice on some shelves in a musty cupboard somewhere. All I know is that those clubs that built stadiums with capacities reflecting when they wanted to be are...where they wanted to be, or well on the way. None of them went through a Chris Moore-type crisis as a result of building their stadiums. (How long can the spectre of CM be used by the Chosen Ones to beat down those who don't unquestioningly swallow everything that comes out of the club?) On the other hand, those clubs that built little stadiums, refecting little ambitions, are where they started off, by and large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The surplus left over from the sale of the BP site....? :laught16: What surplus Stitch? There won't be enough to fund the full £20 million. Try working the figures out, not forgetting how much the owners have put in since 2003. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhamathleticfailsworth Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm more of a 'reader' on this board than a 'poster' but I have to vent my feelings on this one: This proposed complex will consist not only of a football ground but of other facilities which once operative will (hopefully) generate the much talked of 'revenue streams' which will eventually make OAFC self-sufficient. In short this is a long-term project designed to stabilise the club's foreseeable future. If you want a short-term project that will leave with us with an Emirates-style stadium, just pop along and go and get us a multi-millionnaire sugar daddy who'll pay for it all. Good luck with that. The fact is this proposal reflects the resources at the club's disposal, which as we all know, are modest. This in mind there is absolutely no point in building some giant stadium we can fill to about a quarter capacity and leaving us with the potentially crippling problem of maintaining a vastly under-populated stadium at the expense of a competitive playing side. Darlington? Though ordinary to look at Colchester's and Shrewsbury's respective grounds are quite remarkable in that with capacities of a mere 10,000, they can be expanded to hold around 40,000. Let's get this site built and let's get OAFC paying its own bills and suddenly, when TTA decide it's time to go, Oldham Athletic become an attractive asset to a potential buyer. And, when at this time we are (hopefully, again) heading in the right direction on the pitch and the crowds are starting to burgeon guess what, we fill in the corners and then guess what, we start adding tiers. This will not be a huge undertaking for a successful and self-sufficient club. To those of you who prefer to mope in darkened rooms pattering Sylvia Plath-esque sentiments about the club on your computers, it is your refusal to find the positive in anything that would sound the death knell for this team we all, bizzarely, love so much. Not the council, not TTA, not the players, you. You would truly be astonished the impact collective enthusiasm and ambition can have. Give it a go. This is an exciting venture and could form the foundations on which OAFC could become a force once more. PS. FAO TTA, please don't be disheartened by some of the spoilt, misery junkies on here. They DO NOT speak for all of us, good luck with the venture I for one am 100% behind you. That is all. Woof. 100 % Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 On the other hand, those clubs that built little stadiums, refecting little ambitions, are where they started off, by and large. For the third time, what size stadium would you want? Not that difficult surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The surplus left over from the sale of the BP site....? Some how, I dont think the BP site will go for £20m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Answer the question. What would you want to see? Something that matches the cscale of the BP plan. Isn't that obvious? Funny how wanting the BP plan, or something akin to it, is now construed as a wildly unrealistic desire for an Emirates stadium only with 90,000 seats instead of 60,000. Down and down we go. You'll need a micropscope to see OAFC soon. Edited July 22, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 How do you expect me to answer where the money to build a 20,000-seater stadium is to come from? I don't know where any of the money for the current project is supposed to be coming from and, I'd guess, neither do you. People have already asked questions about where these additional income streams you mention are supposed to arise from (as well as how the Failsworth project is to be funded at all when BP was reliant on the land and hosuing surrounding it.) You could see this clearly in the BP plan, but not with this one. Apart from that, so far we have no idea even if it's a serious proposal with more potential than any of the previous blueprints that now feed the paper lice on some shelves in a musty cupboard somewhere. All I know is that those clubs that built stadiums with capacities reflecting when they wanted to be are...where they wanted to be, or well on the way. None of them went through a Chris Moore-type crisis as a result of building their stadiums. (How long can the spectre of CM be used by the Chosen Ones to beat down those who don't unquestioningly swallow everything that comes out of the club?) On the other hand, those clubs that built little stadiums, refecting little ambitions, are where they started off, by and large. So what would you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Says who? That the new stadium, if built, will never have its capacity expanded? It's another one of those predictions of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Down and down we go. You'll need a micropscope to see OAFC soon. ....... talking just for the sake of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So what would you want? He's not going to say is he? Afraid of saying so that he can continue to snipe generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 And this is precisely where you can be shown to be talking complete :censored:. Not bother to mess around? Of course they frigging well would – IF WE WERE IN A POSITION WHERE THERE WERE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY COME AND SIT IN THE SEATS AND IT MADE FINANCIAL SENSE. They would not throw away money because they couldn’t be bothered, just like they aren’t throwing money away now on seats for show. For someone who goes on all the time about how the club should be aiming for promotion, you are remarkably casual about wanting to drain the playing budget for the sake of the prestige of having 12,000 empty seats each week – or have you found a way to spend the same pound twice? We'll have, like other clubs who build little grounds, and unlike those clubs that build stadiums with capacituies that reflect their ambitions, no sizeable playing budget. You know it, and I know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Lashers ground currently at just under 10K and good example of what kind of plan we should be looking to have in place at Latics Now they have moved up a league they have started to add onto the ground, when the full stadium is finally completed the capacity will be about 16,000 with potential for 25,000 eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggy_oafc Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 People are not comparing it to the Emirates, but to the proposed 16,000-seat redevelopment of BP, from which this represents a serious retreat. And also to the 15,000 capacity SP 2000 fiasco. Nor is anybody talking about sugar daddies. Some have, however, mentioned the vision that TTA said they had for the club when they took over. 'A serious retreat', oh my God please tell me you're taking the pi$$. Moving to a brand new location and building a 12,000 state of the art seater stadium with the potential to increase the capacity by an extra, staggering 28,000 represents a 'serious retreat' from staying put and rebuilding the ground to a virtually fixed capacity of 16,000. Er, OK then. Woof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The aim of TTA has always been to turn OAFC into a self sustaining club. Building a bigger stadium would obviously be more expensive. If with a 12000 seater stadium we can be self sufficient then I am happy. It does not show a lack of ambition, it shows common sense which is what the TTA have always aimed for. And following times of uncertainty is what we should all be wanting I would've thought Yes-the common sense that says that 12,000 capacity is more than enough for a club that will never get out of the third division. I'm so proud to support one of those clubs whose fans show common sense instead of all that demanding, draining ambition stuff. Perhaps we ought to take up Buddhism and live the contemplative life and have done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Something that matches the cscale of the BP plan. Isn't that obvious? Funny how wanting the BP plan, or something akin to it, is now construed as a wildly unrealistic desire for an Emirates stadium only with 90,000 seats instead of 60,000. Down and down we go. You'll need a micropscope to see OAFC soon. Hardly, why build a stadium we cant fill? When we can fill the capacity of the new stadium, we can expand it. It could end up as a 40000 seater if we need that much room. Whats the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Though ordinary to look at Colchester's and Shrewsbury's respective grounds are quite remarkable in that with capacities of a mere 10,000, they can be expanded to hold around 40,000. But they never will be, that's the point. They'll never be expanded beyond 10,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 How do you expect me to answer where the money to build a 20,000-seater stadium is to come from? I don't know where any of the money for the current project is supposed to be coming from and, I'd guess, neither do you. People have already asked questions about where these additional income streams you mention are supposed to arise from (as well as how the Failsworth project is to be funded at all when BP was reliant on the land and hosuing surrounding it.) You could see this clearly in the BP plan, but not with this one. Apart from that, so far we have no idea even if it's a serious proposal with more potential than any of the previous blueprints that now feed the paper lice on some shelves in a musty cupboard somewhere. All I know is that those clubs that built stadiums with capacities reflecting when they wanted to be are...where they wanted to be, or well on the way. None of them went through a Chris Moore-type crisis as a result of building their stadiums. (How long can the spectre of CM be used by the Chosen Ones to beat down those who don't unquestioningly swallow everything that comes out of the club?) On the other hand, those clubs that built little stadiums, refecting little ambitions, are where they started off, by and large. Still no answer for where the £8 mill is coming from then to justify your lack of ambition comment? In terms of me knowing your both right and wrong. As the club haven't yet stated then officially I don't know, but my profession gives me the experience to work it out to a relatively fairly accurate degree based on the information that has been put out both in the statement last night and previous statements from the club/owners. The statement last night said that architects will now be appointed to draw up the scheme. So when those plans are available (which again according to the statement should allow the planning committee to make a decision before the end of 2009) we will see what the proposals are to produce the additional income streams. Sorry, Corp, where exactly are Bournemouth, Darlington, Northampton, Shrewsbury, Southampton, Millwall, Huddersfield, Coventry and even Middlesboro (all right I'll give you Boro) and then theres Oxford. Well Darlo & Bournemouth have been in Administration twice, Northampton have never gone anywhere, Shresbury is still in its infancy, Southampton have been relegated twice, Millwall are back where they started, in fact might even be a division lower, Huddersfield are no better off, neither are Coventry, who in fact because their stadium plan was over ambitious ended up in Admin. And as I said then there's Oxford. Relegated out of the league. So I'm afraid that for every Bolton and Derby you refer to there is a Darlington or Oxford or Southampton etc etc. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Lashers ground currently at just under 10K and good example of what kind of plan we should be looking to have in place at Latics Now they have moved up a league they have started to add onto the ground, when the full stadium is finally completed the capacity will be about 16,000 with potential for 25,000 eventually. Yes-but, as I keep saying, our's won't be. Can't you see that this is a settlement for permanent lower division football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Why can we afford a new stadium but not afford to redevelop BP? A very sensible question I asked at the start of this discussion... Suddenly we have someone willing to buy the land... Begs the question why cant we redevelop BP.... If we are going to have a smaller ambitions, why not have those smaller ambitions at BP... How much would a new main stand with conference facilities and a gym cost for example... :censored: loads of issues surrounding this outside of the size of the stadium.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 But they never will be, that's the point. They'll never be expanded beyond 10,000. Hows the crystal ball coming along then? You dont know this CJ you are speculating. The stadia can be expanded if it is needed. If we are filling the new stadium week in-week out, it makes financial sense to expand, until then, it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm so proud to support one of those clubs whose fans show common sense instead of all that demanding, draining ambition stuff. Perhaps we ought to take up Buddhism and live the contemplative life and have done with it. zoinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm more of a 'reader' on this board than a 'poster' but I have to vent my feelings on this one: This proposed complex will consist not only of a football ground but of other facilities which once operative will (hopefully) generate the much talked of 'revenue streams' which will eventually make OAFC self-sufficient. In short this is a long-term project designed to stabilise the club's foreseeable future. If you want a short-term project that will leave with us with an Emirates-style stadium, just pop along and go and get us a multi-millionnaire sugar daddy who'll pay for it all. Good luck with that. The fact is this proposal reflects the resources at the club's disposal, which as we all know, are modest. This in mind there is absolutely no point in building some giant stadium we can fill to about a quarter capacity and leaving us with the potentially crippling problem of maintaining a vastly under-populated stadium at the expense of a competitive playing side. Darlington? Though ordinary to look at Colchester's and Shrewsbury's respective grounds are quite remarkable in that with capacities of a mere 10,000, they can be expanded to hold around 40,000. Let's get this site built and let's get OAFC paying its own bills and suddenly, when TTA decide it's time to go, Oldham Athletic become an attractive asset to a potential buyer. And, when at this time we are (hopefully, again) heading in the right direction on the pitch and the crowds are starting to burgeon guess what, we fill in the corners and then guess what, we start adding tiers. This will not be a huge undertaking for a successful and self-sufficient club. To those of you who prefer to mope in darkened rooms pattering Sylvia Plath-esque sentiments about the club on your computers, it is your refusal to find the positive in anything that would sound the death knell for this team we all, bizzarely, love so much. Not the council, not TTA, not the players, you. You would truly be astonished the impact collective enthusiasm and ambition can have. Give it a go. This is an exciting venture and could form the foundations on which OAFC could become a force once more. PS. FAO TTA, please don't be disheartened by some of the spoilt, misery junkies on here. They DO NOT speak for all of us, good luck with the venture I for one am 100% behind you. That is all. Woof. Bloody good call. Woof woof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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