Corporal_Jones Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 They won't be around forever, which they also openly admit but they are trying to but the club on a level playing field before they do go What does this mean exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 What does this mean exactly? Not building a new stadium on a hill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 The average league gate under Ritchie wasn't as low as attendances have dipped recently. Nobody's talking about one-off gates. The fact remains that however you try to obscure it, gates averaged well over 6000 five years ago but didn't last season-and there is absolutely no chance that they will do so this season. If you want to paint that as some sort of progress, that's your privilege. Trying to reverse the point? YOU are claiming decline, I'm not painting progress. And if your idea of statistical analysis is to compare 1 game with a season average, then you're more than a little deluded. We could instead take a single gate from the 30's and claim that the premier league years were not much to talk about then. Eh? Eh? 3072 under AR. And what's more, erm, .....I think we got some pretty low gates when CM was around - 4300 ish in fact once - and we were 9th in the whole league table - blimey charlie - does that one count in your super comprehensive statistical study? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Trying to reverse the point? YOU are claiming decline, I'm not painting progress. And if your idea of statistical analysis is to compare 1 game with a season average, then you're more than a little deluded. We could instead take a single gate from the 30's and claim that the premier league years were not much to talk about then. Eh? Eh? 3072 under AR. And what's more, erm, .....I think we got some pretty low gates when CM was around - 4300 ish in fact once - and we were 9th in the whole league table - blimey charlie - does that one count in your super comprehensive statistical study? Once again, for the clapping seal: I haven't 'compared one game with a season average'; I'm pointing out that the average gate was well over 6000 when TTA arrived and nowhere even approaching that right now. One-off games can take care of themselves. 'I'm not painting progress'? Course you're not, real. Course you're not. Edited September 15, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Once again, for the clapping seal: I haven't 'compared one game with a season average'; I'm pointing out that the average gate was well over 6000 when TTA arrived and nowhere even approaching that right now. One-off games can take care of themselves. 'I'm not painting progress'? Course you're not, real. Course you're not. Ok, let's go over it again. Last season we got 5636 average; finished 10th The season before we got 5326. 8th Before that 6334. 6th Before that 5796. 10th Before that 6462. 19th Pick out a pattern from that if you like, but we're 160 people down on 3 years ago. Now, I've clearly said that I do not feel that it's a valid comparison to use the CM play off year, or even to some degree the years following, which were buoyed by a degree of dunkirk spirit. I think it's fairer, when looking at a claim of ongoing downward spiral, to look at a previous period in the same league, immediately before mr bigspender turned up signing championship players on championship wages for a league 1 team. 4972 average gate, with a low of 3072. As for the "course you're not" - where do I say we've made progress with gates? All I've ever said is that anyone who tries to claim our gates are heading one way or another is deluded. Equally people who claim that good football will bring people back appear to be deluded too. We got more finishing 10th under Moore than finishing 8th under Shez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Jeebers wept, not another poll about the impending demise of OAFC? The sooner we collapse and form a black hole that sucks in the whole town (except Failsworth - clings on by its Manchester roots), the better we'll be! Wht do we have the same people writing the same guff every time? How's this for an opinion? TTA have done some excellent things for this club, and they have made mistakes. Their total fiscal input into the club I would wager amounts to considerably less than the BP site is worth - these guys are business men after all and want to turn a profit. Essentially they told us that before their reign began... Why does it have to be stay or go? We'd all love the team to be better, but they aren't and the sole reason will not be the budget setting of the owners - why would they benefit from dragging us down? If DP went to them on bended knee and asked for a centre-half on loan, I'm sure we'd get one. Stop putting things up for the Corp to shoot at in order that we have the same chats every time a post reaches the top of the OWTB boards, and lets instead discuss something different. Gregan's recent :censored:ness anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) I really could not give a flying monkey about the TTA... Stuff em to be frank... All I care about is the long term future of Oldham Athletic... That is the only thing that concerns me... Whatever is best for OAFC.... Scares me how some of our fans think we actually owe TTA anything... I get the feeling that some fans would actually compromise ourselves because they feel some sort of deluded loyalty to TTA to allow them to make some money off our backs... If we think the plans are wrong we should fight it... Regardless whatever you think they have done for us... Now is not the time to be nice... Its time to think about what is best for us!!! Nothing personal...just business.... All that said, I am not sure if we are best moving or not / best sticking with TTA or not... Edited September 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) I really could not give a flying monkey about the TTA... Stuff em to be frank... All I care about is the long term future of Oldham Athletic... That is the only thing that concerns me... Whatever is best for OAFC.... Scares me how some of our fans think we actually owe TTA anything... I get the feeling that some fans would actually compromise ourselves because they feel some sort of deluded loyalty to TTA to allow them to make some money off our backs... If we think the plans are wrong we should fight it... Regardless whatever you think they have done for us... Now is not the time to be nice... Its time to think about what is best for us!!! Nothing personal...just business.... All that said, I am not sure if we are best moving or not / best sticking with TTA or not... Judging by your recent posts, I'd say that your starting going to matches again at BP would help. Cheers, Harry Edited September 15, 2009 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Stop putting things up for the Corp to shoot at in order that we have the same chats every time a post reaches the top of the OWTB boards I see what you did here, that's called irony. I think what Jonesy says is on the money, but he's over zealous sometimes...he's okay though, it's not his fault people reply to his posts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) can anyone honestly put there hands on there hearts and tell me that they think Simon, Simon & Danny have made one single desicion about this club without the clubs best interest at heart?? Yes! Moving us down to Failsworth! And the word "heart" is utterly ironic! They've lost their heart in OAFC...it's Project Brassbank now!!! The camp will be forever divided but moving us there seriously endangers us over redeveloping IMO. We've enough prime land to make it work at BP, if we hadn't we wouldn't have done the council marches to TTA's rally call etc. And pleeeeease don't start this economy thing...it's a great excuse. And the markets starting to slowly recover too now. Also, I see that nobody's pointing out how they've made plenty with the way the value of the Dollar to Pound has gone over recent years. All smoke and mirrors. And too many Latics Lemmings happily willing to jump off the cliff and see if the tide is in!!! Really isn't a leap of imagination to see a stadium with TTA gone. And then us gone soon after (as Eastland roars in the distance.) And even FC United moving into League One and into the stadium... TTA coming to us was ALWAYS a land deal....I knew that, most did....it didn't include moving us being railroaded down to the borderline of Oldham. It did include facilities for Oldham, centrally to Oldham. They've lost their heart in us...I'm happy for them to sell and recoup their losses (and more)...anything else...is suicidal and the more I point this out, the more it's eating away at me that we're doing what most fans merrily did under Chris Moore....going along with it and walking blindly into extinction!!! NB: Just read OAFC0000s post....now we've not seen eye to eye at times but f*** me...what a spot on post....these words should reverberate through every single Latics fan!!! TTA make a buck? Yes...but at what cost to us??? I really could not give a flying monkey about the TTA... Stuff em to be frank... All I care about is the long term future of Oldham Athletic... That is the only thing that concerns me... Whatever is best for OAFC.... Scares me how some of our fans think we actually owe TTA anything... I get the feeling that some fans would actually compromise ourselves because they feel some sort of deluded loyalty to TTA to allow them to make some money off our backs... If we think the plans are wrong we should fight it... Regardless whatever you think they have done for us... Now is not the time to be nice... Its time to think about what is best for us!!! Nothing personal...just business.... Edited September 15, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Ok, let's go over it again. Last season we got 5636 average; finished 10th The season before we got 5326. 8th Before that 6334. 6th Before that 5796. 10th Before that 6462. 19th Pick out a pattern from that if you like, but we're 160 people down on 3 years ago. Now, I've clearly said that I do not feel that it's a valid comparison to use the CM play off year, or even to some degree the years following, which were buoyed by a degree of dunkirk spirit. I think it's fairer, when looking at a claim of ongoing downward spiral, to look at a previous period in the same league, immediately before mr bigspender turned up signing championship players on championship wages for a league 1 team. 4972 average gate, with a low of 3072. As for the "course you're not" - where do I say we've made progress with gates? All I've ever said is that anyone who tries to claim our gates are heading one way or another is deluded. Equally people who claim that good football will bring people back appear to be deluded too. We got more finishing 10th under Moore than finishing 8th under Shez. Do you think it matters that we're only down by 160 on three years ago when the average gate was over 6000 when TA arrived, and five years on stands little chance of getting back to that level any time soon (baby)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Stop putting things up for the Corp to shoot at in order that we have the same chats every time a post reaches the top of the OWTB boards, and lets instead discuss something different. Gregan's recent :censored:ness anyone? You should have noticed by now that it isn't only me who has misgivings about the way the club is going. Far from it. And there are any number of threads discussing other subjects. Take a look-there's one over there. And over there. And over there. And over there. (Repeat until fade.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I cant see how they have some form of hidden agenda, surely they wouldnt have stuck around this long and lost so much money if they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I cant see how they have some form of hidden agenda, surely they wouldnt have stuck around this long and lost so much money if they did Ever heard of speculating to accumulate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Ever heard of speculating to accumulate? I don't think the plan has always to been to make a 'buck' - there would have been countless better investments for them to make in 2003. The vast majority of football club owners make a loss, and intend to do so. I suspect TTA spotted an opportunity to go on the football club ownership ride for free, in effect, through spending the profit they would eventually make off the land. I do however think that now they have failed, so to speak, and it is turning a little sour, that they want out asap and are cutting their losses, with considerably less regard for the club than they have previously shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think the plan has always to been to make a 'buck' - there would have been countless better investments for them to make in 2003. The vast majority of football club owners make a loss, and intend to do so. I suspect TTA spotted an opportunity to go on the football club ownership ride for free, in effect, through spending the profit they would eventually make off the land. I do however think that now they have failed, so to speak, and it is turning a little sour, that they want out asap and are cutting their losses, with considerably less regard for the club than they have previously shown. i reckon thats pretty much spot on. yes, they wouldnt have purchased the club without the land, but i dont think it was a solely land based venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 i reckon thats pretty much spot on. yes, they wouldnt have purchased the club without the land, but i dont think it was a solely land based venture. Nevermind that Daz, my Gregan post on the 'Relegation' thread is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think the plan has always to been to make a 'buck' Me neither. However, this: I cant see how they have some form of hidden agenda, surely they wouldnt have stuck around this long and lost so much money if they did suggests that that it isn't the plan even at this moment in time. Conversely, the fact that they have stuck around so long suggests that there is a hidden agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Ever heard of speculating to accumulate? If they'd done that we might be in the Championship by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I cant see how they have some form of hidden agenda, surely they wouldnt have stuck around this long and lost so much money if they did I honestly believe they wanted us to be the next Hull...it hasn't worked...it's time to execute plan B...actually, I think we're on plan F with the move, redevelop, move dance we've done...I feel for their efforts...I feel nothing for the move...but disaster! It isn't about them doing us over but more about where it leaves us. The fact they'll profit more from it means there's a fine line in what's acceptable to us FANS not to TTA as to quote them "we won't be here in a few years"...neither will we if we get this wrong!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I honestly believe they wanted us to be the next Hull...it hasn't worked...it's time to execute plan B...actually, I think we're on plan F with the move, redevelop, move dance we've done...I feel for their efforts...I feel nothing for the move...but disaster! It isn't about them doing us over but more about where it leaves us. The fact they'll profit more from it means there's a fine line in what's acceptable to us FANS not to TTA as to quote them "we won't be here in a few years"...neither will we if we get this wrong!!! Agreed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I honestly believe they wanted us to be the next Hull...it hasn't worked...it's time to execute plan B...actually, I think we're on plan F with the move, redevelop, move dance we've done...I feel for their efforts...I feel nothing for the move...but disaster! It isn't about them doing us over but more about where it leaves us. The fact they'll profit more from it means there's a fine line in what's acceptable to us FANS not to TTA as to quote them "we won't be here in a few years"...neither will we if we get this wrong!!! Done right, it can be made to look superficially good. We might be still struggling in this division by the time it's built, or even in the one below, but a shiny new stadium will, for the simple minded and the eternal optimists, seem to symbolise a fresh start. The local media will play their part: 'They've had some traumatic times over the years, but at last the little Latics have turned a corner. Here they are with their modern facilities, aiming to mount a challenge to recover their third division status...' Why do they need more than 12000 seats when gates have fallen to 3000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Done right, it can be made to look superficially good. We might be still struggling in this division by the time it's built, or even in the one below, but a shiny new stadium will, for the simple minded and the eternal optimists, seem to symbolise a fresh start. The local media will play their part: 'They've had some traumatic times over the years, but at last the little Latics have turned a corner. Here they are with their modern facilities, aiming to mount a challenge to recover their third division status...' Why do they need more than 12000 seats when gates have fallen to 3000? That is my worry as well... We know very little about the plans. We dont even know how much money Oldham Athletic will get from what is built. How much of the soccer dome profits will go to Latics ? Any ? All of them ? 50% ??? We simply dont know... Yet everything is steaming ahead! Edited September 16, 2009 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) That is my worry as well... We know very little about the plans. We dont even know how much money Oldham Athletic will get from what is built. How much of the soccer dome profits will go to Latics ? Any ? All of them ? 50% ??? We simply dont know... Yet everything is steaming ahead! And? The club actually does belong to them, we can merely express our wishes. In fact, :censored: it show me a money lender who will give you money for no return. They don't exist. As much as TTA have helped our club they are here for financial reasons...... I'm supposed to be a happy clapper according to the corp. Edited September 16, 2009 by footy68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 And? The club actually does belong to them, we can merely express our wishes. Oh :censored: it... If thats the general concencus on here then fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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