real Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 That is the whole point Harry... The club are pushing and taking un-reversible steps to go ahead with the Failsworth plans and many fans are against it... I think the vast majority of fans where behind the Oldham Arena plans... There is a clear and distinct difference... No, that step is not relevant to the failsworth plan. It is the same step under the BP re-development plan. So on that level it makes not one jot of difference. Just to be clear - those houses were going to be built under the Oldham Arena BP plan. It's an "un-reversible" step in "a" development but not in respect of moving to failsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 FAILSWORTH "OLD"ham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why don't you set one up? serious question, and if you're confident that others feel the same way... As much as I would LOVE too I am hardly in a postion to do that at the moment given many factors... Don't you worry though when one is formed that deserves backing I will be there... Like last time with the begging buckets... Many here presume I am totally against the trust...I am not ! If it worked I would back it... If it started to work I would back it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 AND............................................................................. ............... Without selling it there isn't enough money to redevelop it If the Council hadn't buggered around with the planning permission and instead granted it 3 months earlier as they should have done, we wouldn't be having this debate today, as a sale of the land had been agreed and a builder for the new Broadway stand was on board and a price agreed. BUT............................................................................. ................ that has gone now so we have to move on to plan????? B/C/D or whatever it is, or whatever it takes. Do any of you really think that with the experience that IH brings to the table with his knowledge of the town, these other sites that have been mentioned haven't been considered? We can debate the move to Failsworth all you like. At the moment, unless someone dramatically comes up with a realistic, cost effective alternative, then the options are stay at BP and slide further, or move to a puprose built new stadium at the Lancaster Club that has additional facilities, generating additional income that allows us to either at worst stand still or better still progress. Personally, I would rather stay at BP. I love the place. I don't give a frig that it is 3 sided. We should as a club and as fans turn that to our advantage, 3 sided fortress and all that. At the same time, I want us to progress. I've been to other grounds over the years and seen the better facilities on offer, the fans more involved around the ground on a match day and know that we need to do more, if we are ever to make that progress. It is for that reason I've come to the conclusion that we have little option but to move. I don't want to, but I know that if I still want to be watching football in my home time in 20 years, we are left with little or no choice. I want my son and his son to be watching football in this town when my time has gone. I wanted that to be at BP, but if it can't then so be it. As far as I care, you can do all the surveys you want at the turnstiles. They aren't going to change anything. It isn't about oh we'll stay at BP because the fans have spoken, it will be about we have taken the decision to move to the Lancaster club because it will give us the best chance of creating stability and generating additional income streams and improving the match day experience. If you want to do surveys, then by all means do so, but let them be about what we can do in the short term at BP. How can we get the fans singing off the same him sheet for the benefit of the team. We cant do much about improving the facilities at BP before the move, well apart from getting Azzure to buy more pies, but we can sure as hell try to unite the fans. I sit in the Chaddy, but to be honest, I'd sit anywhere to support the team. My mrs says she doesn't want to move, but if we could get everyone together, I'm sure I could persuade her if need be. We should all be together, not split up between the 2 ends. Lets do something positive rather than all this negative stuff. Thanks to the manager, the players are now doing it on the pitch, we as fans need to do our bit off it. Cheers, Harry Good post Harry. As my suggestion of a survey at the turnstile is being quoted, I feel the context is not. It was not as a suggestion to try and get the TTA to change their mind, it was in response to those that say there is complete oppostion to the move. I believe that survey will show that a majority are in favour of Failsworth, and knock dead in the water the underswell of opinion that Failsworth is a bad move. Risky, yes, but bad no. Of course, there are people with leigitimate questions regarding ownership etc, and the desire to know is a positive thing, after the Chris Moore experience. If any such survey showed that most are against it, then the subsequent questions should indicate why. You cannot help the way people feel, but I think the TTA should address these concerns head on, and show their in a sustained open communication campaign rather than just say trust us. The TTA have gained the trust by their actions, but no one can live on past glories, and the economic times have changed a lot in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I believe that survey will show that a majority are in favour of Failsworth, and knock dead in the water the underswell of opinion that Failsworth is a bad move. I think that is all people want... The debate and a chance for the fans to say they back it or reject it... I am still undecided with a lean to Failsworth being the right thing to do... Its location is a massive gamble though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 No, that step is not relevant to the failsworth plan. It is the same step under the BP re-development plan. So on that level it makes not one jot of difference. Just to be clear - those houses were going to be built under the Oldham Arena BP plan. It's an "un-reversible" step in "a" development but not in respect of moving to failsworth. I am 99% sure the reasoning given in the official article was to raise money for the Failsworth plan... Happy to be corrected though... I get your wider point though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I am 99% sure the reasoning given in the official article was to raise money for the Failsworth plan... Happy to be corrected though... I get your wider point though... Real is correct. The scheme announced on the 18th September for the houses behind the Chaddy End was proceeding irrespective of the move to Failsworth. The article stated that the the discussions had been going on for over 7 months, which was before Failsworth became a possibility. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 again, you go straight to the negatives, several members of the trust have been out and canvassed the opinions of several demographics of latic fans, truthfully this hasnt been done a lot at grounds as I have used the Feedback on the move and ideas off OWTB as to me it shows a good split of latics fans. As i know a higher percentage of posters on Owtb I can split there intrests etc. The fans forum was a white wash becuse hardly any fans turned up !!!!! If you took the failsworth dynamos and empty seats away it was embarressing considering how important the subject being discussed was ! Barry fought tooth and nail to get that forum done for no cover charge, with the club only conceeding on the day to give the money back. If more fans were there, more questions would have been asked and therefore answered But what's the point of questions when it's already a done deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Some would say it shows real ambition! It did show ambition. It was, unfortunately for Darlington, the ambition of a chairman who wished to make them 'bigger than Middlesbrough,' without having the means to seriously attempt to carry the project through (apparently.) The fact remains that no club with serious ambitions of establishing itself in the Championship would build a stadium that holds only 12000. Almost all stadiums with such small capacities are concentrated in the lower divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) but I know that if I still want to be watching football in my home time in 20 years, we are left with little or no choice. I want my son and his son to be watching football in this town when my time has gone. I wanted that to be at BP, but if it can't then so be it. If the aim is, as the small capacity of the proposed stadium suggests, to become 'self-sufficient' in the lower divisions, then you and your descendents will be watching semi-professional football in twenty years time, as there is clearly no future for professional football at lower division level. Most clubs are already in a state of slow motion meltdown. Edited October 12, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 But what's the point of questions when it's already a done deal? Well the forum wasnt a case of "ok so what do you think of this move to failsworth, open up to the floor" It was a case of "right, this is whats going to be happening, what do you want to know about it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Well the forum wasnt a case of "ok so what do you think of this move to failsworth, open up to the floor" It was a case of "right, this is whats going to be happening, what do you want to know about it" Exactly. A done deal, like I said. In this context questions are futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes but that was the exact situation when the plan was to redevelop BP. So tell me what is the difference between selling the land in December 2007 and selling it now. I suggest that it is very little, except that it is to provide a new stadium at Failsworth rather than redevelop BP. Harry The main difference being that what appears to be on offer now is a considerably inferior, smaller project that represents a downsizing of the club. In fact, didn't those who heard it say that Simon Corney admitted that the project was a downscaling in a recent interview on Radio Manchester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The main difference being that what appears to be on offer now is a considerably inferior, smaller project that represents a downsizing of the club. In fact, didn't those who heard it say that Simon Corney admitted that the project was a downscaling in a recent interview on Radio Manchester? You been resting Corp? Hope your energy levels are topped up and your keyboard has been reconditioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 You been resting Corp? Hope your energy levels are topped up and your keyboard has been reconditioned A week's holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes but that was the exact situation when the plan was to redevelop BP. So tell me what is the difference between selling the land in December 2007 and selling it now. I suggest that it is very little, except that it is to provide a new stadium at Failsworth rather than redevelop BP. Oh and they aren't selling the land at BP buy the way. The club are building houses on it themselves. Cheers, Harry The 'club' are building houses on it themselves? Does this mean the 'club' ie OAFC 2004 Ltd, will get recurring/residual income from these houses, or are we talking about Brass Bank - it TTA building houses here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The 'club' are building houses on it themselves? Does this mean the 'club' ie OAFC 2004 Ltd, will get recurring/residual income from these houses, or are we talking about Brass Bank - it TTA building houses here? If it is OAFC and not Brass Bank I'll eat my hat. Sod Failsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The main difference being that what appears to be on offer now is a considerably inferior, smaller project that represents a downsizing of the club. In fact, didn't those who heard it say that Simon Corney admitted that the project was a downscaling in a recent interview on Radio Manchester? No Corney didn't say it was a downscaling, he said that Failsworth was the best location available and the facilities for the ground at Failsworth would be better than what they could have done at BP. He didn't expand on that however. In terms of capacity it is a downsizing when really we would want the figure to go up, it's not considerably inferior though is it? The project as a whole has the potential to make the club more revenue the only trouble with that is we aren't even bothering to maximise our revenue potential at our current home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 No Corney didn't say it was a downscaling, he said that Failsworth was the best location available and the facilities for the ground at Failsworth would be better than what they could have done at BP. He didn't expand on that however. Unless other posters where lying he apparently did use the word downscaling / downsizing... One or the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) In terms of capacity it is a downsizing when really we would want the figure to go up, it's not considerably inferior though is it? The project as a whole has the potential to make the club more revenue the only trouble with that is we aren't even bothering to maximise our revenue potential at our current home. I would suggest we do not have enough information as of yet to make a judgement... We know OAFC will own the "stadium" but outside of that I dont think anything else has been said regarding who will own what and who will get profits from what ? If I am wrong then please someone who me the proof...I only want the info... Edited October 12, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Unless other posters where lying he apparently did use the word downscaling / downsizing... One or the other... If he did then fair enough, I don't remember it being said when I listened to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 In terms of capacity it is a downsizing when really we would want the figure to go up, it's not considerably inferior though is it? The project as a whole has the potential to make the club more revenue the only trouble with that is we aren't even bothering to maximise our revenue potential at our current home. It's a reduction of a full quarter on what was proposed for the BP redevelopment. Comparable to City cutting their capacity to about 36000. That would not be enough for their top four PL aspirations. Similarly, 12000 is not enough for a club aiming to establish itself in the Championship. Which makes me feel that this is not a serious intention anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Juventus, a team with a champions league pedigree are in the process of downgrading from a 67'000 seater stadium to a 40'000 seater stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Juventus, a team with a champions league pedigree are in the process of downgrading from a 67'000 seater stadium to a 40'000 seater stadium. So? Perhaps they'll find they've drastically miscalculated. Or maybe they'll raise prices massively to compensate-an option not open to a club like ours. Plus, they get massive income from TV and being in the CL etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Aren't Juve reknowned for surprisingly low attendance? Care to show me where? Well its a question that people keep asking so I am clearly not the only one to miss the answer... Unless your just going to repeat the bit about the club owning just the stadium ? Two replies? Calm yourself.... To be fair to you, my fly remark looks a little silly now because, like Harry, I slightly misinterpreted your query. You were a little vague. Despite this, until the plans are revealed I think it's fair to assume that the 'stadium' encompasses the full development, at least on that site (I heard noises about commercial development on the BP site). With regards to whether or not OAFC will own both the actual football stadium and any adjoining development, I can only assume they will. Why? Because SC has said OAFC will own the stadium. I accept it is possible that he has cleverly omitted that TTA will own the rest of the development, but what would be the point in that when the main purpose behind our move is to generate 24/7 income for the club? Why would TTA donate us a stadium in Failsworth and then build everyday commercial developments on it's doorstep for themselves only? It's important to remember that TTA are essentially giving us this new ground - it isn't being bought with the proceeds of OAFC's BP land because we have already sold that once. TTA bought BP back, not the club. Therefore I see no reason why they would go to the expense of building us a new ground but not let us have the additional income streams which they have deemed essential to our survival? Do you? Why would they throw £10M+ at a new ground for us if they could only anticipate us eventually being forced to sell it before going under?!? If the additional profit streams are for their pockets, why not just leave us at BP seeing as, in their opinion, we will die whether at BP or Failsworth without any additional income? Wouldn't they be better off giving us the commercial developments and keeping the football stadium themselves, to rent to us? Whilst I am thankful to TTA for this gift, I can't help but wonder if the resources they are using could be better spent. I do feel it's a poor move which will condemn us to a lowly future. Edited October 12, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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