It's a shame you couldn't go tonight.....

[Alec1954]

One of the local labour councillors - Jim McMahon - has also raised this issue. So, as a local resident I emailed him to ask him a few questions including what the issue was with the land. He replied that he couldn't explain it in writing and I'd need to meet with him for him to be able to explain the issue. I don't have time to waste like that, so I asked him to send me something anyway, I said I'd try real hard to understand it (presumably he thinks his brain is bigger and more capable than mine). He didn't send anything.

 

Smoke and Mirrors I reckon. And a lot of party political bullcrap.

 

I'm not voting labour after seeing the way they've responded to this. And wasn't it labour councillors that tried to stop the BP Arena. Oppose Latics when in power, oppose latics when not in power- consistent if nothing else.

 

 

After attending the two planning meetings for BP and seeing the councillors in action I was really concerned at their abilities to make decsions..no just read and write!

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

Did anyone raise the ghost of John Arnold and his yet again feverish raising of charitable use of land etc. etc???? Is this guy going to find blockers?

 

Er, the Council aren't selling the land, so Mr Arnold can go on all he likes.

 

The council (and therefore the residents of failsworth) are renting the land to OAFC and will receive an income (ground rent)

 

The Council will rentain "ownership" to the freehold of the site.

 

Problem solved

[Macca]

God I'm under pressure now..... I'm trying to remember so bloody much of all that was said!

 

Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong......... Oldham Athletic do not owe a penney to any financial institutions, the Inland Revenue or any other football clubs, i.e. nobody who could serve us with a winding up order for example.

We do however operate with loses to the tune of close to £1M a season, these loses are covered by TTA. The business of OAFC basically owes TTA, but TTA will NEVER call that debt back in. They, as Simon Corney put it "write cheques" to the tune of £16K a week to make up the short fall between our income and outgoings.

 

So (and this is me speaking) the move to Failsworth needs to generate this extra £16K a week to make us sustainable at our current level of attendance and expenditure. BUT, we will also have extra revenue streams (Alan Hardy mentioned some possible sources could be a bowling alley, cinema complex etc), and then what ever we make over that £16K a week can go into team building or whatever the Manager/Board feel we need....... if the crowd goes up, even more can be spent on the team!

 

Doesn't sound too bad then. I remember when Moore was in charge we owed him £4 million in the end, must have owed other as well as Moore when he decided to give it up.

[ghostofcecere]

Doesn't sound too bad then. I remember when Moore was in charge we owed him £4 million in the end, must have owed other as well as Moore when he decided to give it up.

It seemed to me that SC was suggesting that until quite recently we still owed monies to other clubs from players transfers...... I'm guessing this was a Chris Moore legacy.

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Simon Corney has a Blackberry.

 

 

Anyone know his Blackberry Messenger PIN?

Edited December 9, 2009 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore

[Zorrro]

Only businessmen should own a Blackberry.

[TwentySixBlack]

I believe Lees used to be a part of Ashton as well?

 

Oldham used to be in Lancashire - tend to overlook that one.

 

Was an interesting evening - glad I attended.

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Only businessmen should own a Blackberry.

 

And people who like reliable, non gimmicky, smartphones.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore

[ghostofcecere]

Simon Corney has a Blackberry.

 

 

Anyone know his Blackberry Messenger PIN?

I was actually thinking about sending a Blackberry Messenger request vis his OAFC email address while I was in there....... if he'd have accepted I was gonna tell him to stop bloody typing and look interested

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Only businessmen should own a Blackberry.

 

Unless that was a subtle way of saying that Simon Corney isn't a businessman.

[leeslover]

Oldham used to be in Lancashire - tend to overlook that one.

At risk of a bitch-slapping you do. You must have missed this (with apologies to those not so keen on the Monarchy, like me):

 

TO: THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY AND COUNTY

 

PALATINE OF LANCASTER

 

 

GREETINGS!

 

 

Know ye that this day, November 29th in the year of our Lord Two Thousand and Nine, the 58th year of the reign of

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Duke of Lancaster,

is Lancashire Day.

 

Know ye also, and rejoice, that by virtue of Her Majesty's County Palatine of Lancaster, the citizens of the Hundreds of Lonsdale, North and South of the Sands, Amounderness, Leyland, Blackburn, Salford and West Derby are forever entitled to style themselves Lancastrians.

 

Throughout the County Palatine, from the Furness Fells to the River Mersey, from the Irish Sea to the Pennines, this day shall ever mark the peoples' pleasure in that excellent distinction - true Lancastrians, proud of the Red Rose and loyal to our Sovereign Duke.

 

 

GOD BLESS LANCASHIRE AND

 

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN,

 

DUKE OF LANCASTER.

 

Oldham falls within the Hundred of Salford, so maybe we are fake Mancs after all

[Corneys_world]

Thank you to all those who attended tonight.

 

I hope those who didnt attended, will do so at the next consultation.

[kellysheroes]

will there be a new training facilities at the new site???

 

also, nice new fresh stadium better facilities attracts better players better product on the pitch attracts the fans back is this possible??? i think it is... cmon oldham

[LaticsPete]

A good event.

As people have said it was honest and open, and the position put forward by SC, IH and AH was coherent and reasonable. I have no desire to go to Failsworth but the move seems inevitable - and almost desirable if the club is to have a future. It's going to happen and there was a real invitation from the club for supporters to comment on how to make the move as big a success as possible. That seems to be the big challenge/opportunity for all of us now. We won't agree on everything but there's nothing to be gained by not being constructive.

 

[Lags]

Er, the Council aren't selling the land, so Mr Arnold can go on all he likes.

 

The council (and therefore the residents of failsworth) are renting the land to OAFC and will receive an income (ground rent)

 

The Council will rentain "ownership" to the freehold of the site.

 

Problem solved

 

And the aero space part of the plot will be owned by the same company that owns the BP land. So I believe that isn't OAFC Football club.

 

TTA will fund the side/club at the current levels for a further 3 years (the budget this season SC said was the same as last season) If Failworth falls through after this period of time the cloth will be cut to match income. So the budget hasn't been cut this season as previously mentioned.

 

DP asked that the club provide breakfast and dinner for the players (new to the club) which as increased costs by £60K. It was designed to improve player fitness!!!!!! still on the bright side the players out for the season can earn their keep by cooking and serving the remaining well bodied players.

 

12,000 seats are more than enough it was said and there is no plan B after Failsworth.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Lags

[singe]

That point is perfectly illustrated by the fact that someone made the point that Failsworth only became part of OMBC in 1974, which was after they'd started watching the club.

They presumably overlooked the point that Royton, Shaw and Chadderton were similarly independant as Unitary councils until 1974 too.

 

What was Oldham 40 years ago has now been completely forgotten. I lived in Shaw in the late 70s. It wasn't "part" of Oldham, it was Shaw, NEAR Oldham.

My mum was part of the campaign to keep Saddleworth in Yorkshire, and some would wish that they had succeeded, though it is possible that Oldham would be destitute with Saddleworth money!!

My mum ALWYS puts Diggle/Uppermill Nr Oldham too!

My point is, that what is Oldham is made of many parts, geo-physical, your era of being brought up, but the worst one is a postcode, that has no basis on reality at all. ( a bit like your constituency in an election!!!)

[beag_teeets]

And the aero space part of the plot will be owned by the same company that owns the BP land. So I believe that isn't OAFC Football club.

 

TTA will fund the side/club at the current levels for a further 3 years (the budget this season SC said was the same as last season) If Failworth falls through after this period of time the cloth will be cut to match income. So the budget hasn't been cut this season as previously mentioned.

 

DP asked that the club provide breakfast and dinner for the players (new to the club) which as increased costs by £60K. It was designed to improve player fitness!!!!!! still on the bright side the players out for the season can earn their keep by cooking and serving the remaining well bodied players.

 

12,000 seats are more than enough it was said and there is no plan B after Failsworth.

 

 

And that's just for Gregan alone!

 

It was said that the 12,000 seats are more than enough at the current time, I felt it was implied that if this situation changed it would be looked at, that architects are designing it with expansion in mind. It was also said that it wouldn't be a Shrewsbury or Colchester so this doesn't imply that expansion would be corners filled in, probably like the RRE, if needs be another tier could be put on. Just crossed my mind, I wonder how much this cost the board at the time the RRE was built, if it was a couple of hundred grand would that money have been better spent on keeping us in the Premiership? Just a thought.

 

When you pushed him on a plan B he did think for a few seconds and said something vague about possibly doing something at BP but this would be very scaled down - I think that this would end up as a lego shoe-box as it would be built without the retail/community revenue a new site would bring.

 

What struck me was that he didn't immediately say "dunno, er...er..nowt... flog the club" he thought of a different solution to tackling the issue of the ground not being up to snuff but obviously on a much smaller scale. To me this wasn't the action of a man looking for an exit plan.

 

Just going back to the site of BP, he said that 18 months ago, (was that the time of the march and the redevelop BP? I can't remember,) he said that the land the was valued at £1m an acre - now, they had a recent offer of £250,000 an acre. This drastic drop in the value of the land at the BP site was a major reason why they shelved the BP plans, this plan was to be funded by the houses..etc.. as the expected revenue of this dropped dramatically the figures didn't stack up. In an answer to BB80 he said that this came as a surprise to them too, the developer they were in talks with suddenly dropped their offer by 50%. - Perhaps this could have been communicated better at the time but for all I know this could have happened on the same day as Dogs-gate?

 

He did also say that the plan is to go from finishing one season at BP to starting the next at Failsworth, discussions about a temporary ground share had taken place but this wasn't going to happen. Seems to me from attending last night and various other events like this that TTA are pretty much in constant discussions and schemes to do stuff, the charge that they are naive and blunder about is sometimes true but I think every avenue is explored, yes in the hope it will make them a few quid but also and primarily for the good of the club.

 

When you consider that Notts Co have been put up for sale - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...nty/8405269.stm for all their faults we could be doing a lot worse for owners.

 

BTW, this wasn't as a riposte to you Lags, just quoted you to make the gag about Gregan and talk about the 12,000 issue.

 

Just seen I also meant to make the point that I too felt the question about who was going to own the various bits of the new site wasn't answered properly. You've given the answer above that TTA will own the non-council bits under the umbrella of the club. I guess this means that OAFC will own the ground under the guise of TTA and the retail/community revenue generating bits will be Brass Bank or which ever holding company it is done under. I've slept on this and think that this is pretty much like the current situation and it boils down to the TTA own that bit and money may well go in their back pocket BUT, as we have seen, when money is needed for players and the club TTA do reach for the cheque book and loanees are brought in. Similar to the money currently coming in from NHS park, this probably goes to TTA but ultimately it is channelled back in to the club.

Edited December 10, 2009 by beag_teeets

[Rick]

Just going back to the site of BP, he said that 18 months ago, (was that the time of the march and the redevelop BP? I can't remember,) he said that the land the was valued at £1m an acre - now, they had a recent offer of £250,000 an acre. This drastic drop in the value of the land at the BP site was a major reason why they shelved the BP plans, this plan was to be funded by the houses..etc.. as the expected revenue of this dropped dramatically the figures didn't stack up. In an answer to BB80 he said that this came as a surprise to them too, the developer they were in talks with suddenly dropped their offer by 50%. - Perhaps this could have been communicated better at the time but for all I know this could have happened on the same day as Dogs-gate?

I wonder what the cost per acre is at the Broadway site? How much per acre the BP site will be on the day we move into Failsworth?

 

I also don't understand how they can expect to have a hotel, bowling alley, bingo hall, gym, cinema or whatever so close to Manchester and expect people to go to Failsworth instead - surely moving closer to the Metropolis will only mean more competition. It must only be about 10 minutes on the bus. I'd expect there to be more relative demand and less competition.

 

It is good to hear though, that those that were able to attend last night came away feeling much more secure about the owners plans and long term commitment. I am just still not sold on the "Failsworth or rot at BP" principle and can't understand why this can all be possible in one place and not another (I am not necessarily talking about redeveloping BP itself here, but the site as a whole (although the Blackpool example looks absolutely first rate to me (with no club owned bowling alley, bingo hall....you get my drift)))

 

See what I did there? I got myself into a sprial of ever decreasing brackets

[beag_teeets]

Interestingly Blackpool was mentioned, they were close to going to the wall until being saved by Belekon. Corney said last night that if someone with similarly deep pockets was to help them out they wouldn't say no. Wardle was also mentioned and he wasn't interested in investing, can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines "I'm not as mad as you are".

[danoafc]

I wonder what the cost per acre is at the Broadway site? How much per acre the BP site will be on the day we move into Failsworth?

 

I also don't understand how they can expect to have a hotel, bowling alley, bingo hall, gym, cinema or whatever so close to Manchester and expect people to go to Failsworth instead - surely moving closer to the Metropolis will only mean more competition. It must only be about 10 minutes on the bus. I'd expect there to be more relative demand and less competition.

 

It is good to hear though, that those that were able to attend last night came away feeling much more secure about the owners plans and long term commitment. I am just still not sold on the "Failsworth or rot at BP" principle and can't understand why this can all be possible in one place and not another (I am not necessarily talking about redeveloping BP itself here, but the site as a whole (although the Blackpool example looks absolutely first rate to me (with no club owned bowling alley, bingo hall....you get my drift)))

 

See what I did there? I got myself into a sprial of ever decreasing brackets

 

I think the point is Rick, SC was saying that the club could redevelop BP by selling off some land for housing etc, but would simply be unable to provide the infrastructure/off field income to allow the club to more or less support itself, meaning TTA would still need to keep writing the cheques for the shortfall, which they aren't prepared to do long term.

 

I'm not sure what your point about Blackpool is - I'm not sure if you are saying it's a good scheme or a bad one, but SC mentioned he'd had a meeting with Karl Oyston a while ago and without the Belekon money they'd have been screwed.

Edited December 10, 2009 by danoafc

[Lookers_Carl]

I think the point is Rick, SC was saying that the club could redevelop BP by selling off some land for housing etc, but would simply be unable to provide the infrastructure/off field income to allow the club to more or less support itself, meaning TTA would still need to keep writing the cheques for the shortfall, which they aren't prepared to do long term.

 

I'm not sure what your point about Blackpool is - I'm not sure if you are saying it's a good scheme or a bad one, but SC mentioned he'd had a meeting with Karl Oyston a while ago and without the Belekon money they'd have been screwed.

 

SC stated that Belekon has funded the bloomfield road redevelopment and is putting into the club in the region of £1m a year, and that they would have been screwed and then some without his £££

[jsslatic]

I also don't understand how they can expect to have a hotel, bowling alley, bingo hall, gym, cinema or whatever so close to Manchester and expect people to go to Failsworth instead - surely moving closer to the Metropolis will only mean more competition. It must only be about 10 minutes on the bus. I'd expect there to be more relative demand and less competition.

 

Depends. One would assume the cost of a night's stay, or gym membership, or cinema tickets would be cheaper outside of town, so people would probably choose Failsworth instead.

 

Also, even if it's only an extra ten minutes on the bus...it's still ten minutes away. If I had the choice between going bowling, to the gym or to the cinema in either place X or somewhere ten minutes further away, then I'd go to place X. There's no point travelling further if you don't need to.

[Rick]

I think the point is Rick, SC was saying that the club could redevelop BP by selling off some land for housing etc, but would simply be unable to provide the infrastructure/off field income to allow the club to more or less support itself, meaning TTA would still need to keep writing the cheques for the shortfall, which they aren't prepared to do long term.

 

I'm not sure what your point about Blackpool is - I'm not sure if you are saying it's a good scheme or a bad one, but SC mentioned he'd had a meeting with Karl Oyston a while ago and without the Belekon money they'd have been screwed.

 

The Blackpool development is excellent Dan. At least from what you can see when they're on the telly.

 

I suppose that the problem that Blackpool have, that we may not, is that they are in a bad position so far as the amount of competition they are surrounded by. There wouldn't be much point them building a Hotel on to their ground would there? I suppose without this potential additional revenue scheme, they certainly would have been screwed without a wealthy benefactor.

 

Perhaps I just bought all of the Oldham Arena justification when it was given to us but still think that if we can do it in Failsworth, we should be able to do it on the bit of land inbetween the two Broadways and close to Clayton Playing Fields.

[Rick]

Depends. One would assume the cost of a night's stay, or gym membership, or cinema tickets would be cheaper outside of town, so people would probably choose Failsworth instead.

 

Also, even if it's only an extra ten minutes on the bus...it's still ten minutes away. If I had the choice between going bowling, to the gym or to the cinema in either place X or somewhere ten minutes further away, then I'd go to place X. There's no point travelling further if you don't need to.

Well I'd rather travel from Newhey (nestled neatly at the foot of the Pennines close but also comfortably distant from Shaw and Milnrow) to Manchester to watch a movie, do a bit of shopping and have something to eat than go to Sandbrook Park in Rochdale.

 

Whatever happened to the Roxy by the way? Hmmm.....

[Lags]

The Blackpool development is excellent Dan. At least from what you can see when they're on the telly.

 

I suppose that the problem that Blackpool have, that we may not, is that they are in a bad position so far as the amount of competition they are surrounded by. There wouldn't be much point them building a Hotel on to their ground would there? I suppose without this potential additional revenue scheme, they certainly would have been screwed without a wealthy benefactor.

 

Perhaps I just bought all of the Oldham Arena justification when it was given to us but still think that if we can do it in Failsworth, we should be able to do it on the bit of land inbetween the two Broadways and close to Clayton Playing Fields.

 

The official line is that when BP redevelopement was proposed the land was worth 1 million an acre. The last offer was 250K per acre. SC stated he expected now the real going rate is somewhere inbetween should a sale be struck. I would hazzard a guess the land would be worth more without a football ground as part of it. Now if a russian came along with a promise of 1 million a season for 10 years perhaps we could go back to plan A at BP, who knows?.

 

It was clearly stated Wardle wasn't interested, but that begs the question, why bother turning up to talk? another guess would say maybe he was interested a little if the right deal in terms of percentage owned was right (for him).