De_La_Vega Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sorry, meant to add that the average loan players signed must be a management issue rather than a failing of TTA's. We have some loanees who aren't great, but others have been quietly successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Seriously? Mate are you on something? Abusing the loan system? What Machiavellian leaders we have if they are cheating the loan system to bring us wank players! Yes, I agree that the loan system is not being used particularly well and it does affect our relationship with players. But the issue isn't really about the loanees but rather that we haven't signed exciting players through it since we got Kilkenny. Ideally though I would like to see players retained for longer than one season, which was one of my key gripes with Shez and which happened again this close season. Plenty of clubs still take a slightly longer view, and several of them are amongst the more successful of recent years (Scunny spring to mind) - this is something we should look to emulate. But going back to the loan system, if we could get our hands on :censored: for a longer period then I'd be a happy bunny. I'd like to see him groomed as a centre-half for the long haul. :censored:..excellent the rest not. last season..jones ..not bad at all the rest crap i'd delve further, but i just aint bothered,but the point is that the club is running its policy of relaying on loan signings to to the hilt, because its cheaper than paying a player to develop and be part of a team,not wondering for a month and disappear into obscurity again. i certainty dont feel any type of affection for the continuing 3/4 loan players we have playing every week..especially when they are crap and not very bothered about it anyway. this has been a TTA policy since they arrived..it hasn't worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) :censored:..excellent the rest not. last season..jones ..not bad at all the rest crap i'd delve further, but i just aint bothered,but the point is that the club is running its policy of relaying on loan signings to to the hilt, because its cheaper than paying a player to develop and be part of a team,not wondering for a month and disappear into obscurity again. i certainty dont feel any type of affection for the continuing 3/4 loan players we have playing every week..especially when they are crap and not very bothered about it anyway. this has been a TTA policy since they arrived..it hasn't worked. I see you'r point punkster but money will always be an issue for us. I think its more to do with the type of loan players we go for rather than loan players per say... I see little point in picking up a player returning from injury who is not match fit. All loan players are going to be lacking match sharpness but fitness is a another thing. The whole Heff loan was a joke. Even in the game I saw you could tell he was running at about 70% of capacity (he showed his ability by great off the ball positioning for his goal). Its bloody pointless. Finally he gets close to match fitness and he is off back. Seems stupid... Edited January 3, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I see you'r point punkster but money will always be an issue for us. I think its more to do with the type of loan players we go for rather than loan players per say... I see little point in picking up a player returning from injury who is not match fit. All loan players are going to be lacking match sharpness but fitness is a another thing. The whole Heff loan was a joke. Even in the game I saw you could tell he was running at about 70% of capacity (he showed his ability by great off the ball positioning for his goal). Its bloody pointless. Finally he gets close to match fitness and he is off back. Seems stupid... we have history in doing that...brett omerod being the most pointless loan ever springs to mind. royle took gambles and chucked in the kids,bought rejects from leeds,city and the rest was history. TTA policy is to "just fill in a pair of boots with anyone",not allow a squad to grow and develop. its constantly changing..no pattern emerges,no form develops,and for the fans,no regularity and passion for the team is there. the passion for the CLUB may still be there,but not for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 we have history in doing that...brett omerod being the most pointless loan ever springs to mind. royle took gambles and chucked in the kids,bought rejects from leeds,city and the rest was history. TTA policy is to "just fill in a pair of boots with anyone",not allow a squad to grow and develop. its constantly changing..no pattern emerges,no form develops,and for the fans,no regularity and passion for the team is there. the passion for the CLUB may still be there,but not for the team. Well, I'm not sure about that. I'd go with Dele Adebola being the most pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well, I'm not sure about that. I'd go with Dele Adebola being the most pointless. lol..there has been soooooo many! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 we have history in doing that...brett omerod being the most pointless loan ever springs to mind. royle took gambles and chucked in the kids,bought rejects from leeds,city and the rest was history. TTA policy is to "just fill in a pair of boots with anyone",not allow a squad to grow and develop. its constantly changing..no pattern emerges,no form develops,and for the fans,no regularity and passion for the team is there. the passion for the CLUB may still be there,but not for the team. Different game now though mate, Bosman and transfer windows have seen to that. You can't go out in October and buy a left back for £10k and a pack of smarties anymore. Too much money in the game, player want more clauses than a Santa convention and the deal has to "right for them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Different game now though mate, Bosman and transfer windows have seen to that. You can't go out in October and buy a left back for £10k and a pack of smarties anymore. Too much money in the game, player want more clauses than a Santa convention and the deal has to "right for them". whats stopping penney blooding youngsters? whats stopping penney from looking at kids from other clubs who just aren't getting anywhere(eg at city,utd etc) c'mon...whether we think colbeck is ok or not,was he worth £60 grand??? in fact why hasn't this happened over the last 5 years? we all know the consequence's from the bosman ruling and the very silly windows...but it affects every single club in the world. ok..the big boys can cope anyway, but why haven't we when other smaller clubs our size seem to do ok...scunthorpe springs to mind? they get players who WANT to be at the club for the right reasons...not your feckin parker types... the scouting system at latics has been rightly questioned on here many times...thinking about it now,there's the answer to this whole problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 whats stopping penney blooding youngsters? whats stopping penney from looking at kids from other clubs who just aren't getting anywhere(eg at city,utd etc) Brooke? :censored: on season long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Brooke? :censored: on season long? Good points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Brooke? :censored: on season long? brooke...and? :censored:(i have already said a great loan deal)...and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 brooke...and? :censored:(i have already said a great loan deal)...and? you raised a question and it was answered. Are you shifting the goalposts now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 you raised a question and it was answered. Are you shifting the goalposts now? so just one example on each proves its working? and from what i have seen of brooke, i'm not entirely convinced in that dept... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 so just one example on each proves its working? and from what i have seen of brooke, i'm not entirely convinced in that dept... Ok then Paul Black and Nick Blackman half season loan. You can't say why hasn't he done this and done that and then when you get an answer say your not entirely convinced. Your point was why hasn't he done it. The fact remains he has whether they have worked out or not is an entirely different point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) so just one example on each proves its working? and from what i have seen of brooke, i'm not entirely convinced in that dept... I agree with you to be honest*. I fail to see what trying Eaves would have not given us that Blackman brought. What the hell are we trying out other teams' kids for when our own are sitting on their arses? And this has been happening since before Moore took over (alright he got nigh on forced to play Eardley and Taylor). *The not playing our own kids point. Edited January 3, 2010 by OldhamSheridan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ok then Paul Black and Nick Blackman half season loan. You can't say why hasn't he done this and done that and then when you get an answer say your not entirely convinced. Your point was why hasn't he done it. The fact remains he has whether they have worked out or not is an entirely different point. paul black..isn't having the best of luck regarding injuries...but has he still made the complete breakthrough to be a regular first team choice? blackman...apart from one of the best goals for a bit by him,not a success by a long way...why? not good enough according to penney because of his reluctance to give him a run? attitude(according to some here)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 paul black..isn't having the best of luck regarding injuries...but has he still made the complete breakthrough to be a regular first team choice? blackman...apart from one of the best goals for a bit by him,not a success by a long way...why? not good enough according to penney because of his reluctance to give him a run? attitude(according to some here)? Whether they are good enough or not is obviously opinion. Blackman started off fine imo, but has failed to build on that and has gone backward, I presume a view shared by the management. Black has been unlucky with injury, but has been given his chanced and before his injury, imo didn't let us down and was holding his place on merit. However, despite our opinions on whether/if these players have had/will have/may have any sort of impact was not the point you raised John. You asked why the manager hadn't tried 2 things, when it is quite obvious he has with varying degrees of success/failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 paul black..isn't having the best of luck regarding injuries...but has he still made the complete breakthrough to be a regular first team choice? That's pretty unfair to judge as yet, but from what I've seen he's not looked out of his depth at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I agree with you to be honest*. I fail to see what trying Eaves would have not given us that Blackman brought. What the hell are we trying out other teams' kids for when our own are sitting on their arses? And this has been happening since before Moore took over (alright he got nigh on forced to play Eardley and Taylor). *The not playing our own kids point. chucking kids in at the moment of need was a latics forte...the likes of taylor,eardley,of recent times being excellent examples. royle did it (milligan,henry,goram,barlow, etc) frizz did it(ogden,ryan,robins,bell) TBH,im not very clued up on how the kids of today are in terms of making that step up..maybe someone more in the knowledge can mention quite bluntly if some are up to a sudden step up if need arises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 That's pretty unfair to judge as yet, but from what I've seen he's not looked out of his depth at all. i said that from a penney prospective..he hasn't been given the chance. i certainly rate him,from what i've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Whether they are good enough or not is obviously opinion. Blackman started off fine imo, but has failed to build on that and has gone backward, I presume a view shared by the management. Black has been unlucky with injury, but has been given his chanced and before his injury, imo didn't let us down and was holding his place on merit. However, despite our opinions on whether/if these players have had/will have/may have any sort of impact was not the point you raised John. You asked why the manager hadn't tried 2 things, when it is quite obvious he has with varying degrees of success/failure. do you think the loan system latics have played very heavily over the last 5 years has worked? improved the team and the way it operates as a unit? i don't. results and barring one season with shez in the play offs,its not worked in the slightest. its not working this season either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 chucking kids in at the moment of need was a latics forte...the likes of taylor,eardley,of recent times being excellent examples. royle did it (milligan,henry,goram,barlow, etc) frizz did it(ogden,ryan,robins,bell) TBH,im not very clued up on how the kids of today are in terms of making that step up..maybe someone more in the knowledge can mention quite bluntly if some are up to a sudden step up if need arises? No idea but it has to be doubtful looking at how many players the youth system have produced over the last ten years or so that have gone on to have good league careers. Not hard to work out why when Man Utd soccer scholls in Oldham are advertised on live TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 No idea but it has to be doubtful looking at how many players the youth system have produced over the last ten years or so that have gone on to have good league careers. Not hard to work out why when Man Utd soccer scholls in Oldham are advertised on live TV. but hasn't latics always been in the shadow of utd, city etc when it came to catching talent? hasn't latics been in a better position of giving a kid a chance of first team football, than 95% at utd/city ever see past their usual short and non evenful careers? that was always latics selling point.."you'll get a chance quicker here if you are good enough..we can be the stepping stone to a great career, if you put that effort in" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 More to the point Richards, Spencer and Philliskirk say that this a place to come to if you want a step up. We certainly won't stand in your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 but hasn't latics always been in the shadow of utd, city etc when it came to catching talent? hasn't latics been in a better position of giving a kid a chance of first team football, than 95% at utd/city ever see past their usual short and non evenful careers? that was always latics selling point.."you'll get a chance quicker here if you are good enough..we can be the stepping stone to a great career, if you put that effort in" Not to the same degree as now when clubs sign up players much younger than was once the case and run much bigger academies, many more youth sides etc. I get the impression that if a kid has two legs and shows an interest then a big club will have first bite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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