Council Propose Land Swap Deal

[Macca]

Council Propose Land Swap Deal

 

Just seen this article in the chron. I think it's a good compromise not that FRAG would accept this at all. Are the council admitting that the land does have charitable status?

[LaticMark]

According to the Oldham Advertiser: "Oldham Council is to forge ahead with plans to allow Oldham Athletic to build a new stadium in Failsworth by registering the disputed land as a charitable trust.

 

As part of the 'scheme' it will apply to the Charity Commission for permission to swap the charitable status of 8.6 acres of land north of the Lancaster Club with an as yet unidentified site.

 

The council hopes this will appease residents opposed to losing the swathes of grassland to a 12,000 seater stadium and community facilities, and allow the stalled development to progress.

 

Following expert legal advice the council has finally accepted that the land has charitable status after months of discussion with the regulator were inconclusive."

 

Is that clear? Sounds a bit like Clayton Playing Fields (Part 2)?

 

[leeslover]

Council Propose Land Swap Deal

 

Just seen this article in the chron. I think it's a good compromise not that FRAG would accept this at all. Are the council admitting that the land does have charitable status?

We need someone to explain what this trust status business is about. Not a clue myself. Of course FRAG won't ever be happy but it removes a big obstacle, if there are no legal blocks then the council can just treat them as a dozen arsey locals led by a boggle-eyed loony with bizarre hair.

[Alec1954]

We need someone to explain what this trust status business is about. Not a clue myself. Of course FRAG won't ever be happy but it removes a big obstacle, if there are no legal blocks then the council can just treat them as a dozen arsey locals led by a boggle-eyed loony with bizarre hair.

 

 

It does make you think that the UK achievements of the past would never been attained in this day due to do-gooders and barrack room lawyers.. yes it does mean that at times actions were taken that were illegal but if the end result if success who cares?

[oafc0000]

Am I the only one confused by this...

 

I suppose what they are doing is nullifying their (Failsworth residents) legal argument.... But this will in no way appease the local residents I feel...

Edited March 11, 2010 by oafc0000

[Macca]

Am I the only one confused by this...

 

I suppose what they are doing is nullifying their (Failsworth residents) legal argument.... But this will in no way appease the local residents I feel...

 

Nope, the residents aren't bothered about this charitable land. They're bothered about a stadium being built. I'm sure a very rare species will soon be found there.

[oafc0000]

Nope, the residents aren't bothered about this charitable land. They're bothered about a stadium being built. I'm sure a very rare species will soon be found there.

 

People who aren't on the dole ?

[singe]

The details are in the agenda for the meeting on 17th MArch

 

Agenda and Minutes

 

ITEM 7 OLDHAM ATHLETIC STADIUM PROPOSALS

Oldham Council Report Summary

 

Council Report

Report for the council

 

Cabinet

 

 

Oldham Athletic Stadium Proposals

 

Report of Councillor Mohib Uddin

 

Portfolio Responsibility : Regeneration

 

 

17th March 2010

 

Officer Contact : Mark Prestwich

Ext. 1660

 

Purpose of Report

 

The purpose of the report is to provide Members with an update on the status of the Council owned land to the North of the Lancaster Club, Failsworth and to outline the potential impact on the Oldham Athletic proposals for the site and the Council’s response to the proposed development. In view of the advice received from Counsel, the report also seeks approval to approach the Charity Commission with a view to requesting that the land to the North of the Lancaster Club, including the formal Lower Memorial Park area, is to be registered as a trust.

 

Recommendations

 

It is recommended that the Council:

1. Support Oldham Athletic in their proposals to develop a new stadium.

2. Accept the advice given by Counsel that the land should be regarded as charitable land.

3. Approach the Charity Commission and advise them that the Council request the area of land to the North of the Lancaster Club, is to be registered as a trust.

4. Examine the feasibility of alternative land options by identifying suitable alternative sites for replacement charitable land, in consultation with local ward members.

5. That if a suitable site is identified, the Council consider asking the Charity Commission to consider a ‘Scheme’ – a legal document that would allow the newly formed charitable status to be transferred onto an alternative site within the locality.

6. That a further report be brought back to update Cabinet once the suitability of the identified alternative sites have been considered further.

 

 

 

[

Cabinet 17th March 2010

 

Oldham Athletic Stadium Proposals

 

Report of Councillor Mohib Uddin

 

Portfolio Responsibility : Regeneration

 

 

Purpose of Report

 

The purpose of the report is to provide Members with an update on the status of the Council owned land to the North of the Lancaster Club, Failsworth and to outline the potential impact on the OAFC proposals for the site and the Council’s response to the proposed development. In view of the advice received from Counsel, the report also seeks approval to approach the Charity Commission with a view to requesting that the land to the North of the Lancaster Club, including the formal Lower Memorial Park area, is to be registered as a trust.

 

Recommendations

 

It is recommended that the Council:

 

1. Support Oldham Athletic in their proposals to develop a new stadium.

2. Accept the advice given by Counsel that the land should be regarded as charitable land

3. Approach the Charity Commission and advise them that the Council request the area of land to the North of the Lancaster Club, is to be registered as a trust.

4. Examine the feasibility of alternative land options by identifying suitable alternative sites for replacement charitable land, in consultation with local ward members

5. That if a suitable site is identified, the Council consider asking the Charity Commission to consider a ‘Scheme’ – a legal document that would allow the newly formed charitable status to be transferred onto an alternative site within the locality.

6. That a further report be brought back to update Cabinet once the suitability of the identified alternative sites have been considered further.

 

 

1 Background

 

1.1 Members will recall that Cabinet previously agreed to transfer an option on an area of land owned by the Council to Oldham Athletic, in order to support Oldham Athletic’s stadium proposals, subject to planning permission. The deeds to the land did not refer to a specific charitable trust.

 

1.2 Officers subsequently received a number of documents relating to the circumstances around the acquisition of the land by Failsworth UDC in 1924 which indicated that the land was bought through public subscription. Accordingly, in December 2009, after receipt of all the relevant documents, the Council forwarded all available information onto the Charity Commission and asked for a view on whether the land was charitable land.

 

1.3 The Charity Commission informed the Council by letter of 12 February 2010 that they could not give a definitive view on whether the land should be registered as charitable trust land.

 

1.4 In order to consider all options on how to proceed, Officers instructed a leading Barrister in this area of law, for an expert opinion. The Council have now received a formal opinion on the issues, which are summarised as follows;

 

a) Given the purpose of the deed and circumstances of the acquisition of the land, there is strong evidence that the land is charitable land, and therefore there are advantages in seeking its registration as such with the Charity Commission.

 

If the matter reached the High Court for determination, there is a strong probability that the Court would conclude that the land is charitable trust land. Such High Court action would be costly and time consuming.

 

c) In order to progress matters, the Council should write to the Charity Commission stating that it has taken Counsel’s opinion and ask them for registration of the land as a charitable trust.

 

d) The fact that the land is charitable land does not mean that the land cannot be disposed of, but the Council would need to prepare an application for a Scheme to be considered for approval by the Charity Commission. The Scheme would need to identify land of equal value and appropriate suitability to be used as a replacement area of land. An independent valuation would be required to demonstrate equality of exchange. The Scheme would also outline the constitution and membership of the Trust and the proposed governance arrangements.

 

2 Current Position

 

2.1 A meeting was held on 2nd March with representatives from Oldham Athletic together with the three Group Leaders and Senior Officers from the Council. Oldham Athletic are still very keen to continue the discussions, in the hope that the required Council owned land would be released to facilitate the stadium plans. All three Group Leaders expressed support for the Council to work with the club to facilitate a new stadium development in order to ensure that Oldham Athletic Football Club remained in the Borough. However, the Council stressed that the disposal of the land by the Council, as land owner, is completely separate from the role of the Council as the Local Planning Authority.

 

2.2 As a precursor to any future discussions with the Charity Commission, officers have carried out a search to identify alternative sites in the area which, potentially, could be suitable and capable of being held in trust. The key issue would be that, the alternative site would have to be of a similar financial value and, in the event that there is an undervalue, a further site could be added or, monies could be provided to cover any shortfall.

 

2.3 Needless to say, as the notion of ‘transferring’ the charitable status is linked to value, it is not strictly necessary that the Council would have to find an alternative site which mirrors the land area of the land to the North of the Lancaster Club (11.75 acres). With this in mind, a number of options are currently being considered.

 

2.4 Legal officers have been instructed to assess the Council’s title in the various parcels of land to ensure that they are not held in trust already, or have restrictions or encumbrances which would potentially prevent the land from being held in trust or affect the value of the land. Once the relevant legal officers have provided a title check, it would be necessary to review the alternative sites again.

 

2.5 Furthermore, based on the emerging plans for the stadium, of the land contained in the 1924 conveyance (i.e. the area of land measuring circa 11.75 acres), Oldham Athletic would currently be seeking to use approximately 8.62 acres of the land proposed to be designated as ‘charitable land’ only.

 

3 Preferred Option

 

3.1 It would be the preferred option that, in-keeping with the initial resolution, the Council takes all consequential steps identified in the report to assess the alternative options to ascertain if the required area of land, to the North of the Lancaster Club, could be made available for development as part of the stadium proposals.

 

4 Consultation

 

4.1 As indicated in paragraph 2.1, prior to formally reporting the matter to Cabinet, a cross party meeting was held, along with Senior Officers, elected members and representatives from Oldham Athletic to provide an update on the implications of the Counsel advice. The Leaders of both opposition groups have been party to the proposals and to the recommended approach to ensure appropriate local consultation.

 

4.2 Subject to Cabinet agreeing the proposed course of action set out above, it is proposed that the Failsworth District Partnership, local PACT and local ward members be fully engaged in the process of identifying and evaluating the alternative sites onto which the charitable status could be ‘transferred’. To this end, a Project Team will be established with a clear project plan focused around community engagement and involvement.

 

5 Financial Implications

 

5.1 The actual costs implications of the recommendations in this report are minimal. However if the land is transferred to charitable trust status and the subsequent ‘scheme’ is agreed, the land would then be transferred to OAFC on a long lease. The terms, conditions and prevailing accounting treatment of this lease need to be the subject of a further report, along with any implications resulting from the requirement to provide new arrangements for the allotments in the area.

 

5.2 The cost implications of the establishing a project team will be around staff time and are already included in the revenue budget. There will be a requirement to advertise alternative sites with an approximate cost of £250. (Mel Creighton).

 

6 Legal Services Comments

 

6.1 Once the documentation relating to the background of the acquisition of the land emerged, the proposed land transaction could not proceed until pronouncement from the Charity Commission.

 

6.2 Further to the Charity Commission’s view on the 12th February, Counsel’s opinion was sought. Counsel advised that, “whilst the issue is not clear beyond doubt, having regard to the intention of the 1924 deed and the background that the purchase money had been collected from the public by the War Memorial Committee, the strong probability is that if the matter came before the High Court, the court would find that a charitable trust had been created.”

 

6.3 In the light of this advice it is recommended that the Council should take the initiative by making a formal application to the Charity Commission for registration. Further to the consideration of this request, the Council could consider options on the next steps with the Charity Commission if alternative sites were identified. (Paul Entwistle).

 

7 Environmental and Health & Safety Implications

 

7.1 None.

 

8 Community Cohesion Implications [including Crime & Disorder Implications in accordance with Section 17 of the Act] and Equalities Implications

 

8.1 None.

 

9 Forward Plan Reference

 

9.1 N/A

 

10 Key Decision

 

10.1 No

 

11 Background Papers

 

11.1 The following is a list of background papers on which this report is based in accordance with the requirements of Section 100(1) of the Local Government Act 1972. It does not include documents which would disclose exempt or confidential information as defined by the Act :

 

File Ref : B479

Name of File : Lancaster Club, Broadway

Records held in Economy Place and Skills Directorate, OBC

Officer Name : Mark Prestwich

Contact No : 0161 770 1660

 

12 Appendices

N/A

 

 

 

[oafc0000]

Anyone any idea of the potential of success in doing this ?

 

That if a suitable site is identified,

 

I would presume the replacement land would have to be within Failsworth somewhere...aka "the locality" ?

 

Is there any areas of land big enough within failsworth ? I would imagine the council have an area in mind...

 

oh yeah, good work singe...

Edited March 11, 2010 by oafc0000

[Macca]

Basically either the Charity Commission agree to the land swap or Failsworth doesn't happen.

[jimsleftfoot]

We need someone to explain what this trust status business is about. Not a clue myself. Of course FRAG won't ever be happy but it removes a big obstacle, if there are no legal blocks then the council can just treat them as a dozen arsey locals led by a boggle-eyed loony with bizarre hair.

 

Not a specialist but I do work for a charity in financial/tax matters and sometimes crossover into property.

 

As far as I am aware, the Lower Memorial Park has charitable status and the council is trustee of this land. This means that the Council just looks after the land and it can’t use it for something other than the original intended purpose or to just sell the land to developers. This is governed by Charity law and the Charity Commission.

 

From the Chron:

 

The 80-year-old, of Whitegate Avenue, has minutes of meetings from 1922-23 where a war memorial committee for Failsworth Urban District Council – when the district was part of Lancashire County Council – used public conscription to buy the land on the Hardman Fold Estate from Miss CM Flood.

He said: "In the minutes I found nine acres and then a year later 11 acres were purchased and laid out as a recreation ground under Public Health Acts.

 

Now FRAG said that Latics could not lease the land from the council as the land was part of the land held in charitable trust. The council denied this, the land they were going to lease to us never formed part of the land held in charitable trust and so there was no issue. As Cllr Uddin said:

 

When the council checked the status of this land with the Charities Commission they advised that the identified development site was ‘not held upon specific charitable trusts’ and they would therefore ‘not need to be involved or advise on its disposal’.

 

However, more evidence came to light that put a big question mark over whether the land held charitable status or not. The Charity Commission could not decide and the project was in limbo.

 

As long as this question mark appears over the land, not much can be done with it. However, if the land DOES turn out to have chartable status, this status could be transferred if it meets certain conditions and there is good reason to do so. If the council can formally register the land as being held in charitable trust, and then can transfer the status to somewhere else, they will be able to develop the land as planned.

 

[singe]

Not a specialist but I do work for a charity in financial/tax matters and sometimes crossover into property.

 

As far as I am aware, the Lower Memorial Park has charitable status and the council is trustee of this land. This means that the Council just looks after the land and it can’t use it for something other than the original intended purpose or to just sell the land to developers. This is governed by Charity law and the Charity Commission.

 

From the Chron:

 

The 80-year-old, of Whitegate Avenue, has minutes of meetings from 1922-23 where a war memorial committee for Failsworth Urban District Council – when the district was part of Lancashire County Council – used public conscription to buy the land on the Hardman Fold Estate from Miss CM Flood.

He said: "In the minutes I found nine acres and then a year later 11 acres were purchased and laid out as a recreation ground under Public Health Acts.

 

Now FRAG said that Latics could not lease the land from the council as the land was part of the land held in charitable trust. The council denied this, the land they were going to lease to us never formed part of the land held in charitable trust and so there was no issue. As Cllr Uddin said:

 

When the council checked the status of this land with the Charities Commission they advised that the identified development site was ‘not held upon specific charitable trusts’ and they would therefore ‘not need to be involved or advise on its disposal’.

 

However, more evidence came to light that put a big question mark over whether the land held charitable status or not. The Charity Commission could not decide and the project was in limbo.

 

As long as this question mark appears over the land, not much can be done with it. However, if the land DOES turn out to have chartable status, this status could be transferred if it meets certain conditions and there is good reason to do so. If the council can formally register the land as being held in charitable trust, and then can transfer the status to somewhere else, they will be able to develop the land as planned.

The positive news is that the Council apprear to be helping and exploring every avenue

[oafc0000]

So breaking ground in the spring is defo out the window then ? This is going to rumble for bloody ages I reckon...

 

You have to laugh otherwise you would

Edited March 11, 2010 by oafc0000

[oafc0000]

The positive news is that the Council apprear to be helping and exploring every avenue

 

True...

[singe]

Anyone any idea of the potential of success in doing this ?

 

 

 

I would presume the replacement land would have to be within Failsworth somewhere...aka "the locality" ?

 

Is there any areas of land big enough within failsworth ? I would imagine the council have an area in mind...

 

oh yeah, good work singe...

I have to confess 0000 that it was on the Roughyeds site, as they are a bit miffed there is nothing regarding their deveopment re Whitebank. Lets hope that is because it does not need Cabinet approval.

[singe]

So breaking ground in the spring is defo out the window then ? This is going to rumble for bloody ages I reckon...

 

You have to laugh otherwise you would

It is a bit bad isn't it

That said I am sure the Charity Commission must have dealt with quite a number of cases of transferring land , so it might be dealt with comapratively quickly (compared to it dragging through the courts)

[oafcprozac]

The positive news is that the Council apprear to be helping and exploring every avenue

 

Until the council changes hands in May.

 

anyone remember the last time we and the council offered to swap a piece of land for better facilities that would benefit the whole of Oldham? Yep, you've guessed it and Clayton is still a glorified dog toilet....

 

This will rumble on and on wonder if there's a Plan B or even Plan C

[singe]

Until the council changes hands in May.

 

anyone remember the last time we and the council offered to swap a piece of land for better facilities that would benefit the whole of Oldham? Yep, you've guessed it and Clayton is still a glorified dog toilet....

 

This will rumble on and on wonder if there's a Plan B or even Plan C

It is a worry.

however, point 4 would seem to poiting to good news.

4 Consultation

 

4.1 As indicated in paragraph 2.1, prior to formally reporting the matter to Cabinet, a cross party meeting was held, along with Senior Officers, elected members and representatives from Oldham Athletic to provide an update on the implications of the Counsel advice. The Leaders of both opposition groups have been party to the proposals and to the recommended approach to ensure appropriate local consultation.

 

Again an improvement on previous processes.

Edited March 11, 2010 by singe

[De_La_Vega]

Feels like flogging the dead horse and all that, but as others have mentioned on the thread this looks like Clayton Playing Fields 2 - "Revenge Of The Dog-walking NIMBY Hillbillies"...

 

Why is this site different? Can we not kick that cock who always makes it into the Chron off Clayton, build a stadium there and bury the whole argument once and for all? The there'll be new people living on the BP site who are dead close to the shiny new leisure facilities too!

 

On an aside, does nobody else just feel that this whole thing is heading to a crash somewhere down the line? There is no way that any land exchange is not going to be challenged through the courts so what is the actual chance of this coming to pass? It is time for a proper right wing vote at election time - not for those racist self-obssessed nobs at the BNP but for some Oldhamist dictator who can sweep aside the red tape and force people to accept his decisions! Get us and the rugby into a new stadium and crush the hoody menace! Viva la resistance!

 

Damn I'm bored...

Edited March 11, 2010 by De_La_Vega

[BP1960]

It is a bit bad isn't it

That said I am sure the Charity Commission must have dealt with quite a number of cases of transferring land , so it might be dealt with comapratively quickly (compared to it dragging through the courts)

 

Do the Charity Commission do quickly?...I can see this dragging on for the next 12 months or more.

[Lookers_Carl]

Do the Charity Commission do quickly?...I can see this dragging on for the next 12 months or more.

 

Can we/TTA afford for this to be delayed another 12 months?

[jimsleftfoot]

Do the Charity Commission do quickly?...I can see this dragging on for the next 12 months or more.

 

They responded to previous correspondence quickly enough though i'm not sure on the time scales for this and to what extent they would have to consult with locals etc.

 

[jimsleftfoot]

It is a worry.

however, point 4 would seem to poiting to good news.

4 Consultation

 

4.1 As indicated in paragraph 2.1, prior to formally reporting the matter to Cabinet, a cross party meeting was held, along with Senior Officers, elected members and representatives from Oldham Athletic to provide an update on the implications of the Counsel advice. The Leaders of both opposition groups have been party to the proposals and to the recommended approach to ensure appropriate local consultation.

 

Again an improvement on previous processes.

 

Good report you got there Singe. To be honest, I reckon this was the contigency plan all along and far from being hopeless, the Council seem to have got there act together on this quite well. THough I shall still expect it to fail at some point anyway as the gods are usually against us. Anything else a bonus and all.

[Luke Becketts Anchor]

What a complete balls up. TTA must be wishing they'd never heard of Oldham.

[SAV]

The positive news is that the Council apprear to be helping and exploring every avenue

 

Because they have already bought B.P and the surrounding land...Maybe...