HarryBosch Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 They were two great examples of how the feck football fans haven't got a clue about what their role is... how patronising You clearly take the view that we should sit back, stump up the entrance fee and just enjoy the football... I take a different view... ain't that the truth I think you are pathetic for getting aggressive with anyone who has an alternative view point... aggressive how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 The reason why fans think they should have some of their concerns answered is that a member of fans trust is on the board. This should be the thread Barry is commenting on, not whether someone likes/dislikes an ex player. I for one would be interested to read what Barry has to say on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 In some ways I feel Corp has never really left the board. Corp used to post about this sort of stuff on every thread... This thread is called Transparency... So this stuff is in context to the thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Right I will try and put a new spin on this debate (which I think is a bloody good one for the record). I will put my cards on the table straight away re the eaves deal, accusing the club/trust of not being transparent on the basis of receiving undisclosed fees for transfer deals is quite frankly, crap. As has been said on here, if we disclosed how much we had received for the likes of spencer, philliskirk, eardley etc, chances are other clubs knowing this information would have asked for more money than what we ended up paying, for example, Rangers may have demanded alot more than 50 grand for Dean Furman, and (*shudders*) we may have ended up paying more for Joe Colbeck. And quoting a post from another thread Clearly we do not know how much we've got for Eaves but if we take the general assumption that it is £200-£250k plus add ons, that really doesn't seem too bad to me. Like it or not, we are currently in a very perilous financial situation. We have no backers and so need to be as close to self sustaining as possible. This money will go a long way towards keeping us going for the next few months. I've not got any statistics, but how many teenagers from League one have been sold for more than £200k in the last three years? I would guess not many, and would be even more convinced if that was extended to teenage strikers who have never scored a competitive first team goal. It would have been nice to get more, but presumably there wasn't any more on offer. We've been told that three clubs were after him but the size of the transfer fee must reflect what all three of those clubs perceived as his value. As for whether the club should tell us the fee, I don't understand the argument. It is, as has been stated in this thread, common practice not to disclose fees these days for a number of reasons. It cannot be in our best interests to have other clubs knowing how much we have received as we try to negotiate other deals. This is particularly relavant due to the complexity of most transfers. To give a full disclosure of the fee, you would have to start quoting agents fees, signing on fees etc. which would breach confidence with third parties. The fact that the Trust has a shareholding doesn't really change anything. The transfer fee will be in the annual accounts next year at which point we will get to find out. In the mean time, I wouldn't expect shareholders to be given this type of information. Now regarding the issue of Transparency in general, the consensus on here seems to suggest that the club (and trust) is not transparent. What would you realistically expect, as fans, from a transparent club. This is not a dig or a pop at anyone, its a genuine question, as I am sure many people will have different ideas of what they would perceive as a transparent football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste1987 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I think a line needs to be drawn on what 'information' should be transparent. When its things like who owns what, for example the issues about the land, then yes, I think more transparency is needed. If its things about financials and 'undisclosed' fees, then I think to an extent these should remain private. Not by trying to annoy the fans, but more for other clubs not knowing the specifics of our financials. If all the cards are placed on the table and every tom, dick and harry can see them, it will no doubt mean clubs would say "we want more for player a" etc or players saying "we want more wages" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Imo - the majority of doubters would probably satisfied if some of the answers to the 'big ticket' questions were answered - stuff like the questions about the land, the outstanding loans and the club's plans to repay them, that sort of stuff. Detail about the day-to-day operations of the club and other minutiae like transfer fees, contracts etc, can stay within the club. edit - or what Ste said Edited August 13, 2010 by oafcmetty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Now regarding the issue of Transparency in general, the consensus on here seems to suggest that the club (and trust) is not transparent. What would you realistically expect, as fans, from a transparent club. This is not a dig or a pop at anyone, its a genuine question, as I am sure many people will have different ideas of what they would perceive as a transparent football club. I want all in... Full details of transfers... Full details of the club employees aka players... Full details on the club finances... We got a great insight from Leeslover granted and I see no reason why that shouldn't be a regular thing... Regular meetings to discuss and a say on the direction of the club... maybe every six months ? Details on who owns what... Its still a matter of debate who owns BP it seems for example, surely we know who own the home we play in... A representative, voted for by the fans, who can provide details on what is going on and is free to answer questions... Maybe a scheme for the fans to buy into the club... Just a few thoughts... Now waits for someone to come back and say confidentiality blah blah blah... Edited August 13, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I think a line needs to be drawn on what 'information' should be transparent. When its things like who owns what, for example the issues about the land, then yes, I think more transparency is needed. If its things about financials and 'undisclosed' fees, then I think to an extent these should remain private. Not by trying to annoy the fans, but more for other clubs not knowing the specifics of our financials. If all the cards are placed on the table and every tom, dick and harry can see them, it will no doubt mean clubs would say "we want more for player a" etc or players saying "we want more wages" etc. I can think of many ways that information can be provided without making it totally public... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I want all in... Full details of transfers... Full details of the club employees aka players... Full details on the club finances... We got a great insight from Leeslover granted and I see no reason why that shouldn't be a regular thing... Regular meetings to discuss and a say on the direction of the club... maybe every six months ? Details on who owns what... Its still a matter of debate who owns BP it seems for example, surely we know who own the home we play in... A representative, voted for by the fans, who can provide details on what is going on and is free to answer questions... Just a few thoughts... Now waits for someone to come back and say confidentiality blah blah blah... So basically you want to become a director? Stump up your cash then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 So basically you want to become a director? Stump up your cash then! I did a cheeky edit while you was replying... As a fan I feel I already own 3% of the club may I add... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 and this is really is the crux of the problem for some of us... After Moores almost destroyed the club it was meant to be a new fresh start... Everyone got behind the trust, threw in money, doing what we can... TTA came along with promises, the trust bought a share, we will have a fan on the board to represent us, everything would be transparent... It never really happened... Agree, I support the team but I really dont have anytime for the people who run the club. Does Alan Hardy still oversee all transfers?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Agree, I support the team but I really dont have anytime for the people who run the club. Does Alan Hardy still oversee all transfers?. I have no idea if AH oversees all transfers... but you would imagine that a Chief Executive would do surely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Imo - the majority of doubters would probably satisfied if some of the answers to the 'big ticket' questions were answered - stuff like the questions about the land, the outstanding loans and the club's plans to repay them, that sort of stuff. Detail about the day-to-day operations of the club and other minutiae like transfer fees, contracts etc, can stay within the club. What he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Would have thought Hardy and/or Corney oversaw the transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Imo - the majority of doubters would probably satisfied if some of the answers to the 'big ticket' questions were answered - stuff like the questions about the land, the outstanding loans and the club's plans to repay them, that sort of stuff. Detail about the day-to-day operations of the club and other minutiae like transfer fees, contracts etc, can stay within the club. edit - or what Ste said It would certainly be a start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take That Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I did a cheeky edit while you was replying... As a fan I feel I already own 3% of the club may I add... Two questions 1) Is that you own 3% of the club or you are part of a group that owns 3% of the club? 2) What is the value of your 3% of the club. A club that has no assets, rents its home and is losing money every week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Two questions 1) Is that you own 3% of the club or you are part of a group that owns 3% of the club? 2) What is the value of your 3% of the club. A club that has no assets, rents its home and is losing money every week? you know the answers to both of them I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 The only details I think you need to know regarding players is the overall budget and bonuses paid. Nothing else. Details on finances are available from Companies House I believe, don't know if thats full finances you are after though. I don't think we need to know all the details if releasing the details is going to harm the club. We do need to know the direction the club is taking and what future plans are. Nothing has ever been said about Brass Bank which worries me and not a lot has been said on how this new stadium is going to secure our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) The only details I think you need to know regarding players is the overall budget and bonuses paid. Nothing else. Details on finances are available from Companies House I believe, don't know if thats full finances you are after though. I don't think we need to know all the details if releasing the details is going to harm the club. We do need to know the direction the club is taking and what future plans are. Nothing has ever been said about Brass Bank which worries me and not a lot has been said on how this new stadium is going to secure our future. Companies House will hold very limited information... We can all debate and nit pick on what each other would like to see... I think the majority agree on some fundamental things here though it seems... It seems the bigger issues are of most interest to most of us... Edited August 13, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Said it all along we'll be ground sharing with Rockerdale. The pitch will be something along the lines of. It's better than nowt and it'll mean more funds into team building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Said it all along we'll be ground sharing with Rockerdale. The pitch will be something along the lines of. It's better than nowt and it'll mean more funds into team building. But how many will fall for that? I certainly friggin won't, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Other than satisfying your curiosity what else do you feel this information is going to do for you? And what do you intend to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Other than satisfying your curiosity Maybe just that ? Feel like you are being treated as stake holder rather than a customer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Maybe just that ? Feel like you are being treated as stake holder rather than a customer... That's reasonable enough for us stakeholders and customers but what about yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 But how many will fall for that? I certainly friggin won't, Would you believe that talks have been held? no matter how tentative or tenuous? cos I certainly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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