Macca Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Some nasty scenes at Tory HQ at the moment. Protesters are in the building smashing up the place. A lot of anger and disobedience about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Some nasty scenes at Tory HQ at the moment. Protesters are in the building smashing up the place. A lot of anger and disobedience about! bloody students Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 There were a couple of groups of them going past my office earlier. I will take the fact that they could afford travel from Leeds and Huddersfield Unis as clear proof of the room for savings in student grants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 There were a couple of groups of them going past my office earlier. I will take the fact that they could afford travel from Leeds and Huddersfield Unis as clear proof of the room for savings in student grants Batten charge would solve this. bugger em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Good on them... Majority was peaceful... I think direct action is sometimes justified and when you have been barefaced lied to like a lot of them have been then I can understand their anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Good on them... Majority was peaceful... I think direct action is sometimes justified and when you have been barefaced lied to like a lot of them have been then I can understand their anger. no surprises there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 5:30pm and the students stop their protesting. NOTHING gets in the way of Neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 5:30pm and the students stop their protesting. NOTHING gets in the way of Neighbours. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 There were a couple of groups of them going past my office earlier. I will take the fact that they could afford travel from Leeds and Huddersfield Unis as clear proof of the room for savings in student grants The fact Huddersfield has a university shows there is room for cuts ;) This amazes me. The students can afford to attend the protest. The lecturers will be next in line to demand pay rises and boycot exams to the detriment of the education they are today trying to protect. It amazes me the reaction to this somehow. Universities are allowed to increase tuition fees. They are not mandated to. Yet university staff are protesting against it. If they don't like it, don't do it. Innovate, partner with business, improve your research, stop offering tinpot degrees at tinpot universities and encourage people to get the right training in a job they can be prosperous in. I'm sorry but a degree in Media Studies from the University of Bolton is worthless. It's not worth £27k. Hopefully the good thing that will come of this is that these degrees will die.... Sorry. I went off a bit there. My final solution is to take the cost of the damage, divide it by the number of students and add it to the cap for every single one of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) The students can afford to attend the protest. Most went down on NUS buses funded by the NUS... London has a very large student population... Apparently the NUS ran out of room on the buses given the overwhelming demand of people wanting to go. Very worried about the cost of uni for my little one in the future Edited November 10, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Most went down on NUS buses funded by the NUS... London has a very large student population... Apparently the NUS ran out of room on the buses given the overwhelming demand of people wanting to go. Very worried about the cost of uni for my little one in the future But that funding must come from somewhere... Probably students ;) Why are you worried. University becomes an investment. You now have to work out if it's worthwhile. When it's free anyone goes without the thought of how much it costs. Some people o at a cost to society and produce no private or social benefit at the end. A tuition fee makes people think about it. Those who are just going for a jolly may think again. Those who are going to further their education and furher themselves either career wise or for their general well being will now make a conscious decision to go knowing the costs and (by the time your ones goes) benefits of the situation. What I'm hoping cones of this is education returns to a pyramid. People don't Pisa about for 3 years studying lady gaga. Those people go and get a job as an electrician a joiner or other such worthwhile trade. Those who want to go to university and pursue those careers suited to it go and with it earn more money. Call me elitist, I don't care, but I genuinely think that in 10 years when the dust has settled, this sort of decision could be one which helps our students and universities.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I'm partly with you there 12345, but the problem is that the size of loan will deter people from poorer backgrounds (given two people with the same A-levels from different backgrounds). Media Studies from Bolton might be a worth while option if it leads to a job and if you can study part-time or via correspondence ie. without piling up debt. I favour a change in the model two two-year, non-stop degrees featuring continuos assessment or three-year part-time degrees with a work element. You can pin hypocrisy on the Liberals for this one, but the reality is that the old system is creaking under the weight of numbers. If you want as many people to benefit from further education, you need to get the universities to stop living in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 A couple of my mates on my current course went down from Newcastle- they left at 3am. I don't think they had to contribute anything (but I will find out if they turn up for lectures tomorrow). Wednesday afternoon is a student (at undergrad level) session off but quite a lot play sports or do other activities on a Wednesday afternoon. Its not uncommon for medical/vet/dentistry students to end up with £50k worth of debt when they leave (this is only going to get worse), quite simply a lot of students from poorer backgrounds are going to be priced out of attending unis, especially on the longer and highly competitive courses. Certainly the ability to relate to patients in medicine is important, but if the poor are going to be priced out of medical studies I think the standard of care is going to go down. There are quite a few professions where although a decent number go to university it isn't necessary, and there are many courses offered by universities which shouldn't be degree courses (Golf, Surfing, Gambling, Kite-flying etc.). A balance is clearly lacking in quite a few areas, and the majority are protesting to see what they can do about it. Having said that there is no excuse for criminal damage, causing harm etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 But that funding must come from somewhere... Probably students ;) Why are you worried. University becomes an investment. You now have to work out if it's worthwhile. When it's free anyone goes without the thought of how much it costs. Some people o at a cost to society and produce no private or social benefit at the end. A tuition fee makes people think about it. Those who are just going for a jolly may think again. Those who are going to further their education and furher themselves either career wise or for their general well being will now make a conscious decision to go knowing the costs and (by the time your ones goes) benefits of the situation. What I'm hoping cones of this is education returns to a pyramid. People don't Pisa about for 3 years studying lady gaga. Those people go and get a job as an electrician a joiner or other such worthwhile trade. Those who want to go to university and pursue those careers suited to it go and with it earn more money. Call me elitist, I don't care, but I genuinely think that in 10 years when the dust has settled, this sort of decision could be one which helps our students and universities.... It is the the trend that worries me and where it is taking us... I am worried because future students are going to face a similar deal to American students... Including my daughter... Imagine 18 years time I have no interest in the stupid 50% target Labour brought in... We need less students going and we need to only offer degrees of substance. We need to ensure the test is ability and not means. The well off will always be over represented in further education. Which ever way you spin it they win. But once you go down a route of fees and you hit the american system then you simply lock out the working classes except for the VERY bright who can get the odd scholarship. That isn't fair... I could go on all night about this but the £9k fee isn't what worries me as its the same as the £3k fee and dosen't block or enable anyone... It is where it is going and what it almost become this time round... My principle is Education should be free... It benefits its us all... and getting education right is key for the future of this country!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Its not uncommon for medical/vet/dentistry students to end up with £50k worth of debt Something which a lot of people haven't given a lot of thought to... When we hit the future and University charge what they like and government funding is reduced... The cost of studying English, History and such like is very cheap. Now I believe we need people studying such subjects as it adds a certain value to our society. Chemistry, Medicine and many other subjects are VERY expensive to teach and this will cost A LOT to study and these are areas which are very profitable for the UK as a whole. The knock on to the country is massive. If numbers fall we are screwed and the potential for brain drain to other countries in the area of medicine is a real possible... Unless of course the NHS is privatised and goes like the american system... Bit of a rant and a bit all over the place but I hope you can see where I am going with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 How much of government spending brings in £3 for every £1 spent ? Cutting education is just tory ideology in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) £50k is a joke. Outrageous. I don't know what you do about med students and vets and dentists, but surely normal science students could get jobs and study at the same time. I know for a fact that arts and social sciences students have way too much time on their hands. And yet as far as I know, only Birkbeck and the OU are specifically designed to teach working people. A colleague of mine who moonlights as an OU tutor has reported an upwards shift in the calibre of applicants in the past couple of years. And a downward shift in the average age of applicants. That's the way forward. Your universities get their funding and your students get their degrees without racking up debt. Why won't the universities change? A Edited November 10, 2010 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) £50k is a joke. Outrageous. I don't know what you do about med students and vets and dentists, but surely normal science students could get jobs and study at the same time. I know for a fact that arts and social sciences students have way too much time on their hands. And yet as far as I know, only Birkbeck and the OU are specifically designed to teach working people. A colleague of mine who moonlights as an OU tutor has reported an upwards shift in the calibre of applicants in the past couple of years. And a downward shift in the average age of applicants. That's the way forward. Your universities get their funding and your students get their degr I was "lucky" to be the first lot paying tuition fees... Had to pay a couple of hundred up front instead of the full whack as it was means tested for the first batch. I lived at home and traveled into Manchester everyday.. I worked part time doing security at sporting events to help fund it all. I do think some students make the whole thing a lot more expensive than it has to be. That said I came out owing £12k or so to the government and £2k in overdrafts AND I was very careful with my money over my four years (did a placement in the third). So even if you do the cheaper route it still costs and its MUCH worse for students now. The debt they are coming out with is shocking... I have about another year before I am debt free from Uni days. 11 years to pay it all back Will be nice to see a boost in my take home pay rather than giving lumps to the HMRC But will probably just start putting it away to fund the little ones education :P Edited November 10, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The talk of golf and gambling studies and equine management is a bit of a red herring. If a profession feels that it can benefit from and/or offer something to academia, it should pursue accreditation. Gambling and golf are big business, and a little bit if academic sheen won't do no harm - if, of course, students work in that field while they learn. They're probably not as useless and inapplicable as, for instance, Eng Lit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The talk of golf and gambling studies and equine management is a bit of a red herring. If a profession feels that it can benefit from and/or offer something to academia, it should pursue accreditation. Gambling and golf are big business, and a little bit if academic sheen won't do no harm - if, of course, students work in that field while they learn. They're probably not as useless and inapplicable as, for instance, Eng Lit. I know someone who did a gambling degree and got a very highly paid job off the back of it. Had to leave the industry when he developed a "problem" though He is now a teacher of maths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The cost of studying English, History and such like is very cheap. The cost of teaching them is cheap. The cost of studying them is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The cost of teaching them is cheap. The cost of studying them is not. I am talking about the future when its a free for all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I totally agree with Hallam Man. The more vocational a course, the more likely it is to produce graduates with specific professional skills. I did some nonsense arts course at university, but there's no way I'd choose it in today's environment. My niece is studying for her A-levels now. She wants a degree, but not masses of debt. There's only way to do that: earn as you learn. How many businesses will give someone one day a week or a few days a month for study? How many universities are flexible enough to accommodate such a student? I don't know the answer to the first question, but the answer to the second is two. The days off three years' pot smoking and computer games with the odd crap shag thrown in are long gone. The only ones who don't realise that are the universities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 My niece is studying for her A-levels now. She wants a degree, but not masses of debt. There's only way to do that: earn as you learn. How realistic is it though... My course saw me studying reasonably long hours and working the rest and I still came out with debt. Open University might be an option... but it takes so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I'm partly with you there 12345 I'm going to remember this day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.