lancy lad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 People are more worried that its the same old mistakes same old problems happening so soon I really dont think anyone seriously wants him sacked but people are desperate for an improvement on the basics Razza, I am worried just like everyone else. I worry about why he doesn't change things immediately with substitutions when it isn't working. I worry whether Tarky is going to be the player we all know he has the ability to be and whether he can keep his concentration in order to stop making mistakes I worry whether we will create anything or look like scoring on Saturday. However I think PD should be given until the end of the season at least, as ANOTHER change and we are just going round in circles. I worry more however, that the negativity on this board and potentially others right now will eventually transpose on to the terraces and accross to pitch. While people are entitled to their opinions, this aint helping the general mood of everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Last year is what it is. He needs more than 3 games for people to judge as this year is a new one! I'd agree if I wasn't seeing the same old woes. That's what is irritating a lot of supporters. Whether or not those defending Dickov all the way home are grasping that, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 We're almost a totally different team. Exactly. Idiots will be idiots, I suppose. We're a third division club from a dying town with barely a pot to piss in and we didn't sign Messi - no :censored:! Am i an ididot because i disagree with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozzer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'd agree if I wasn't seeing the same old woes. That's what is irritating a lot of supporters. Whether or not those defending Dickov all the way home are grasping that, I don't know. It's already been pointed out but Big Joe didn't set the world on fire in his first two seasons. The fact is that clubs that change manager regularly rarely succeed. Probably the 3 most successful teams of the last 30 years have had long term managers. Liverpool lost it after the boot room years when they started chopping and changing but Man U and to a lesser extent Arsenal continue with their managers. Is it any coincidence that the most successful quarter of a century in our history (c1970 - 1995) saw us have only 2 managers? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 This plus a couple of the kids in the squad may step up and become big players. I really don't think all the doom and gloom is justified after "THREE :censored:ING GAMES" or "TWO". Football fans in knee-jerk reaction shocker. This "it's not two games, it's two years" argument doesn't hold water with me either. It's almost a completely new starting 11 to the one that played the majority of last season. Some sides take longer to gel than others, it's hardly like we're the only team in the division who's got off to a slow start. If after 8, 10 games we're still making the same mistakes, then maybe that's the time to start worrying. But for now, a bit of patience is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's already been pointed out but Big Joe didn't set the world on fire in his first two seasons. The fact is that clubs that change manager regularly rarely succeed. Probably the 3 most successful teams of the last 30 years have had long term managers. Liverpool lost it after the boot room years when they started chopping and changing but Man U and to a lesser extent Arsenal continue with their managers. Is it any coincidence that the most successful quarter of a century in our history (c1970 - 1995) saw us have only 2 managers? Probably not. I do agree - I'm not calling for Dickov's head, but no supporter can scoff if some can see some major faults. I'm sure everyone has seen the banner at Old Trafford as Fergie struggled in his third year, but we're dealing with a group of fans that haven't seen any progress for a long, long time. Personally, I've never known a different league. Some of the older fans on here probably have so they can probably rest a little more easily with their memories. And Jonesy - the spine hasn't altered. We have a defender in Grounds who is considerably tighter than Black, a winger in Croft who has settled well. Yet the mistakes are there. The slow starts are there. The inability to contest for a full ninety minutes also remain. The only thing that I won't mention is how we pass and move. That does take time. But that isn't the issue here - or from what I can gather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) well when or if we sack Dickov, I look forward to this board in two years with exactly the same posters same exactly the same thing about the then manager! Its a worrying trend at this club and it needs to be stopped, I agree if we are cut adrift at the bottom then it needs addressing but no manager will get us out of this league without cash to invest..... that may come with new owners, it may even come once the stand is up and running and more money is available, but its not happening this season, so stick with Dickov at least this season. a new manager would have to work with the current squad anyway. Edited August 24, 2012 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Am i an ididot because i disagree with you? Of course not - I'm being as sensationalist and irrational as everyone else in the hope it will enlighten them to the opposite side of the argument. For the most part it seems to fall on deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's already been pointed out but Big Joe didn't set the world on fire in his first two seasons. The fact is that clubs that change manager regularly rarely succeed. Probably the 3 most successful teams of the last 30 years have had long term managers. Liverpool lost it after the boot room years when they started chopping and changing but Man U and to a lesser extent Arsenal continue with their managers. Is it any coincidence that the most successful quarter of a century in our history (c1970 - 1995) saw us have only 2 managers? Probably not. But......Were we successful because we stuck with the managers or did we stick with the managers because we were successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 But......Were we successful because we stuck with the managers or did we stick with the managers because we were successful? Everyone needs time to be succesful otherwise Royle would not have lasted the first few years and Alex Ferguson who like it or not is the most succesful manager English football has ever seen would have dropped like a stone before he did anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Actually it's TWO :censored:ING GAMES because Cup games are one off entities that don't count. So in fact PD has done well to keep some of last years best players and has added some quality players into the team that will as with all new signings take time to fit in and make an impact. This plus a couple of the kids in the squad may step up and become big players. I really don't think all the doom and gloom is justified after "THREE :censored:ING GAMES" or "TWO". As Lancy, Jonesy & Ackey are saying, it is 3 games (I count the Cup Game KeepingtheFaith!!) and it's madness to be talking about sacking Dickov. Last season is just that - last season. The side that played last season, and the side that we're able to field this season are 2 different beasts, and so you just can't IMO lump them together; and continue them on. We've 2 new full-backs, 2 new wingers and a new striker to integrate into our side; along with a last year bit part player who now is staring games - 6 players out of the 11 are new to us, and it'll take more than 2 league games and 1 cup game for it to gel. Not that I'm looking to lock this date in, but if by the end of the 1st week of January we're sittiing in & around the relegation places and the football has been very hit & miss (more miss than hit if we're around the drop zone like), then I wouldn't disagree with Corney seriously looking at Dickov's position. Not a sacking, but a serious look at his position. If he does go down a change route, it'll leave time within the transfer window to make 1 or 2 changes. But - frankly, the over-reaction on here is madness IMO, 3 games - 3. :censored:ING. GAMES (copyright Ackey) into the new season, with a new group of players and it's doom & gloom and shots at the gaffer. #jeezgiveitsometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozzer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 But......Were we successful because we stuck with the managers or did we stick with the managers because we were successful? Well Jimmy Frizz was almost instantly successful but JR wasn't so I'd say both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 As Lancy, Jonesy & Ackey are saying, it is 3 games (I count the Cup Game KeepingtheFaith!!) and it's madness to be talking about sacking Dickov. Last season is just that - last season. The side that played last season, and the side that we're able to field this season are 2 different beasts, and so you just can't IMO lump them together; and continue them on. We've 2 new full-backs, 2 new wingers and a new striker to integrate into our side; along with a last year bit part player who now is staring games - 6 players out of the 11 are new to us, and it'll take more than 2 league games and 1 cup game for it to gel. Not that I'm looking to lock this date in, but if by the end of the 1st week of January we're sittiing in & around the relegation places and the football has been very hit & miss (more miss than hit if we're around the drop zone like), then I wouldn't disagree with Corney seriously looking at Dickov's position. Not a sacking, but a serious look at his position. If he does go down a change route, it'll leave time within the transfer window to make 1 or 2 changes. But - frankly, the over-reaction on here is madness IMO, 3 games - 3. :censored:ING. GAMES (copyright Ackey) into the new season, with a new group of players and it's doom & gloom and shots at the gaffer. #jeezgiveitsometime /\What Sly said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I thought we were right to sack Shez. I think I was wrong. I don't think we'd be right to sack Dickov for a fair old time yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The only two things that was different about what he usually says are: 1. Wesolowski is a big miss and 2. Judge him after 10 games. He talked about knee jerk reactions... then spoke about defensive errors. Could hang himself with that comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Could hang himself with that comment. No chance - it's only "mini-league" number one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepingthe Faith Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 In Dickov I Believe.................................THREE :censored:ING GAMES .......................and (Cup Games) counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Razza, I am worried just like everyone else. I worry about why he doesn't change things immediately with substitutions when it isn't working. I worry whether Tarky is going to be the player we all know he has the ability to be and whether he can keep his concentration in order to stop making mistakes I worry whether we will create anything or look like scoring on Saturday. However I think PD should be given until the end of the season at least, as ANOTHER change and we are just going round in circles. I worry more however, that the negativity on this board and potentially others right now will eventually transpose on to the terraces and accross to pitch. While people are entitled to their opinions, this aint helping the general mood of everyone. Agree with the majority of this. And anyone who says the bolded bit doesn't happen is, quite frankly, wrong. IMPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) The negativity that breeds is from a sense of hopelessness and expecting the team to be poor/average year on year. This is our 16th season in this division and we are no nearer getting out of it at the right end than when we were relegated in 1997. We have constantly gone from one extreme to another. Chucking money at it didn't work in 2001-03 or 2005-07 and cutting the budget as has proved in the past will end in disaster as it did between 1994-97. What we need is to build slowly, but just by looking at the thread on Dickov's incomings and my supplementary post on Penney's dealings shows that the turnover of players is too high. Yes, it is a lower league problem in general but I am more than convinced that our turnover is extreme bar one or two others even in the current financial environment. We have a team year after year packed with loanees that mostly do not give a toss and the contempt on the field breeds it in the stands. The stand being passed and hopefully built will be a microcosm of hope but people jumping down people's necks for telling it like it is, is going to drive more fans away in the long term. It's their club too, they have a right to be pissed off over how this club has been run over the last 18 years. Unless the worm turns and quickly, we will become the new Rochdale circa 1974-2010…. Edited August 24, 2012 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I worry more however, that the negativity on this board and potentially others right now will eventually transpose on to the terraces and accross to pitch. While people are entitled to their opinions, this aint helping the general mood of everyone. /\ this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 We have a team year after year packed with loanees that mostly do not give a toss and the contempt on the field breeds it in the stands. I'm not sure I'd be arsed if people who are supposed to be there to support bitched and whinged about every tiny detail, refusing to draw positives. It's a 2-way thing. The stand being passed and hopefully built will be a microcosm of hope but people jumping down people's necks for telling it like it is, is going to drive more fans away in the long term. It's their club too, they have a right to be pissed off over how this club has been run over the last 18 years. Calling people 'Happy Clapping Fookwits' for trying to stay positive will also drive fans away. As will the horrendously whinge-arse misery of an atmosphere in the stands, on message boards, on twitter, facebook, etc. It's a 2-way thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The negativity that breeds is from a sense of hopelessness and expecting the team to be poor/average year on year. we've always had more than our fair share of serial moaners, even during the glory years. it's all relative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Yes it is, but how about the club played their part in garnering support by having a plan for moving forward. Yes, I know the plans are going in for the new stand. In the mean time, how are we going to secure the investment needed to keep us in this division? We've come awfully close over the last three years but this year's budget cut like in 1996 is one step too far imo. And anybody who was happy with a 2-0 defeat to ANYONE is a Happy-Clapping Fookwit! I can understand people not being confident of a result before hand, but to be happy with a defeat with comments such 'I'll take that', is the attitude that runs through this club nowadays - settling for second best. That will never get us anywhere... As for defending the loanees, come on 80% of the time you can see they are going through the motions. I've already seen enough of Slew to see that within a couple of weeks he'll be on the bench. But for 20 minutes v Sheff Wed he's been very lack-lustre, another in a long line that are here either to get fit, they're not wanted or sent out on loan as a kick up the arse. Slew is the latter imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 we've always had more than our fair share of serial moaners, even during the glory years. it's all relative Yes we did, the grief Royle got from a fair few on the terraces and in Beyond The Boundary was there for all to see. I think some of the moaning though is justified if taken as a whole. Anyone moaning in the context of this 3 game season are hopelessly premature. Taken into the context of a longer timescale I can understand it. I want PD to succeed as much as the next man, but he has to show he can offer more. As I've said, give him until Christmas - although I can see serious questions being asked at 4.45 on 29th September…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 And anybody who was happy with a 2-0 defeat to ANYONE is a Happy-Clapping Fookwit! not subscribing to some of you's theory that it was the end of the world doesn't mean someone was "happy" with it it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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