Labour leadership hustings, foxes and what have the unions ever done for us?

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I have absolutely no problem with a union asking a company to arrange it's members' benefits in a certain way. I don't know how far United have achieved this or the ins and outs of it, and it won't increase their members earnings in the long term

You don't know what will happen to those people's earnings in the long term one way or the other and neither do I. Do you accept the principle that restaurants taking tips from staff is wrong, and should therefore cease, whether or not the money ends up in Eastern Europe, and whether or not it improves their earnings in the long term?

[leeslover]

You don't know what will happen to those people's earnings in the long term one way or the other and neither do I. Do you accept the principle that restaurants taking tips from staff is wrong, and should therefore cease, whether or not the money ends up in Eastern Europe, and whether or not it improves their earnings in the long term?

Not my fault you didn't pay attention in either year of lower 6th economics.

 

Regarding the rest, I believe in freedom of contract between employer, employee and customer

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Not my fault you didn't pay attention in either year of lower 6th economics.

I'm only vaguely interested how you can form a respectable opinion about a person's future earnings in a period (the long term) defined by variability. In fact, your economics is just a fancy way of expressing an old school boss class threat..."Your trade union might have won this one, but your earnings will not improve in the long term...because I'll make :censored:ing sure they don't."

 

 

Regarding the rest, I believe in freedom of contract between employer, employee and customer

I know that already. What I'm asking is whether the crap restaurant chain is out of line for stealing tips.

[blueatheart]

I'm only vaguely interested how you can form a respectable opinion about a person's future earnings in a period (the long term) defined by variability. In fact, your economics is just a fancy way of expressing an old school boss class threat..."Your trade union might have won this one, but your earnings will not improve in the long term...because I'll make :censored:ing sure they don't."

 

 

 

I know that already. What I'm asking is whether the crap restaurant chain is out of line for stealing tips.

Are the staff paid to process tips? 8% might be a bit weighty but the staff are there to work for the betterment of the shareholders, not to divvy up tips.

 

Wow I've turned into a raging capitalist.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Are the staff paid to process tips? 8% might be a bit weighty but the staff are there to work for the betterment of the shareholders, not to divvy up tips.

 

Wow I've turned into a raging capitalist.

 

Good service and cookery brings the punters in and satisfied punters like to broadcast what a great time they had a Generic Restaurant X. Nothing capitalist about disincentivising good work.

 

And people aren't working for the betterment of the shareholders. They're working for their own betterment. If the system works, the shareholders also benefit.

 

Harry Bosch. It's obvious isn't it? When the company takes the tips, the service is :censored:.

[blueatheart]

What do you think should happen with the "migrant" crisis?

[jimsleftfoot]

 

Good service and cookery brings the punters in and satisfied punters like to broadcast what a great time they had a Generic Restaurant X. Nothing capitalist about disincentivising good work.

 

And people aren't working for the betterment of the shareholders. They're working for their own betterment. If the system works, the shareholders also benefit.

 

Harry Bosch. It's obvious isn't it? When the company takes the tips, the service is :censored:.

 

In the current state of the economy, it will be easier for Pizza Express to hire good/enthusiastic staff than ten, years ago regardless of them nicking their tips.

Edited September 4, 2015 by jimsleftfoot

[leeslover]

I'm only vaguely interested how you can form a respectable opinion about a person's future earnings in a period (the long term) defined by variability. In fact, your economics is just a fancy way of expressing an old school boss class threat..."Your trade union might have won this one, but your earnings will not improve in the long term...because I'll make :censored:ing sure they don't."

 

My economics here are no different from those which Marxist and Engels understood. It's the same reason why serving staff in the States who can make very good tips work for low basic pay.

 

Personally I prefer to tip the individual, you might argue that pooling of tips is stealing from the better staff who earn them. But you choose where to eat and where to work.

Edited September 4, 2015 by leeslover

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

My economics here are no different from those which Marxist and Engels understood. It's the same reason why serving staff in the States who can make very good tips work for low basic pay.

 

Personally I prefer to tip the individual, you might argue that pooling of tips is stealing from the better staff who earn them. But you choose where to eat and where to work.

I don't mind either pooling or the tips for the individual. Works both ways. Are you saying that the company should be allowed to keep people's tips because their wages are relatively high? I'm all for a down-the-rabbit-hole row but that's too much.

 

This idea of choosing where to work though. I'm gonna walk into the boardroom at Barclays first thing Monday. When someone asks what the :censored: I think I'm doing, I'll just tell them that I've chosen to go and work there from now on.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

What do you think should happen with the "migrant" crisis?

I think we should kick you out for being mean.

[HarryBosch]

 

Good service and cookery brings the punters in and satisfied punters like to broadcast what a great time they had a Generic Restaurant X. Nothing capitalist about disincentivising good work.

 

And people aren't working for the betterment of the shareholders. They're working for their own betterment. If the system works, the shareholders also benefit.

 

Harry Bosch. It's obvious isn't it? When the company takes the tips, the service is :censored:.

I always ask in chain restaurants and Prezzo staff say they personally keep the tips. Edited September 4, 2015 by HarryBosch

[HarryBosch]

I bet Corbyn never tips.

[jimsleftfoot]

My economics here are no different from those which Marxist and Engels understood. It's the same reason why serving staff in the States who can make very good tips work for low basic pay.

 

Personally I prefer to tip the individual, you might argue that pooling of tips is stealing from the better staff who earn them. But you choose where to eat and where to work.

 

There might be a few exceptions but from my own experience of working in catering, it's a team game. If someone cooks a great pizza and the waitress takes it over to the customer, is it only the waitress who is giving good customer service?

Edited September 4, 2015 by jimsleftfoot

[Zorrro]

Many moons ago when I worked at the Litten Tree and had to provide table service to some of Oldham's finest, we pooled our tips so that we could get smashed at 4am on a Saturday night long after everyone else had eaten their kebabs and cry-wanked themselves to sleep.

 

Great days.

[leeslover]

Are you saying that the company should be allowed to keep people's tips because their wages are relatively high?

 

 

No, that's you reversing what I said to make a silly straw man argument

[leeslover]

 

 

This idea of choosing where to work though. I'm gonna walk into the boardroom at Barclays first thing Monday. When someone asks what the :censored: I think I'm doing, I'll just tell them that I've chosen to go and work there from now on.

You'll be :censored:ed when they have a board meeting in the summer.

 

Or before lunchtime.

[leeslover]

 

There might be a few exceptions but from my own experience of working in catering, it's a team game. If someone cooks a great pizza and the waitress takes it over to the customer, is it only the waitress who is giving good customer service?

Fair point, but different in many different cases. Certainly in a proper restaurant I'd hope the chefs were on different contracts to the waiting staff and pursuing a profession, in the UK at least the latter tend to be shorter term jobs.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

No, that's you reversing what I said to make a silly straw man argument

 

I'm just wondering what factors influence corporations such as Tesco or CBPE Capital to operate a system whereby they keep the money people give to the waiting staff. Genuinely curious as to why they reckon they're entitled to - roughly - 10% on top of what they charge for the meal.

[leeslover]

 

I'm just wondering what factors influence corporations such as Tesco or CBPE Capital to operate a system whereby they keep the money people give to the waiting staff.

Probably because they like money.

[HarryBosch]

Probably because they like money.

I can't add anything to that.

[HarryBosch]

I hate big business as much as the next person but, if Unite are pissing about with :censored:e like this are unions really necessary anymore?

[jorvik_latic]

 

I'm just wondering what factors influence corporations such as Tesco or CBPE Capital to operate a system whereby they keep the money people give to the waiting staff. Genuinely curious as to why they reckon they're entitled to - roughly - 10% on top of what they charge for the meal.

Not 10% on top. 8% of 10% so not even 1% on top. Not that I agree with it but as an 'admin charge', it's not a lot.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I hate big business as much as the next person but, if Unite are pissing about with :censored:e like this are unions really necessary anymore?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't by people like you. I'm sure Len appreciates your concern.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I hate big business as much as the next person but, if Unite are pissing about with :censored:e like this are unions really necessary anymore?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't by people like you. I'm sure Len appreciates your concern.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Not 10% on top. 8% of 10% so not even 1% on top. Not that I agree with it but as an 'admin charge', it's not a lot.

Some of them take 100% of the tips, meaning roughly 10% of the price of the meal. As for an admin fee - they'd be spending that money anyway. Like Leeslover says, they like money so much they're prepared to risk the contract with the customer for a very short term and relatively paltry gain from the staff. Your continental and American capitalists laugh in the faces of our bastards because of their stupidity and kick-your-own-face-in meanness.

 

The Tories have clearly been successful at putting it abroad that unemployed people and other benefit recipients such as the disabled are scum and that it's okay to be unkind to them. Now they're obviously enjoying some success at vilifying the working poor. I wonder what some people will become morally after five more years of this nonsense.