Winchester.....

[dec666]

So his weight is not much but he is not lightweight? You still havent made a case for his inclusion, have you matey? I am waiting.

Player of the Season, matey.

[NewBlue]

You're getting boring, Smoker. Take a scroll back on this thread and you will see the case for his inclusion posted by several, including myself. Stop pleading ignorance...

 

And your comment on lightweight really does show you have no nuance - any player who isn't a beast is a footballing lightweight? Showing yourself up, here. Won't be bothering with you anymore on the topic...

[ChaddySmoker]

You're getting boring, Smoker. Take a scroll back on this thread and you will see the case for his inclusion posted by several, including myself. Stop pleading ignorance...

 

And your comment on lightweight really does show you have no nuance - any player who isn't a beast is a footballing lightweight? Showing yourself up, here. Won't be bothering with you anymore on the topic...

Still no case for his inclusion. You missed the 'nuance' picking you up on your admission of his being lightweight!

[leeslover]

Still no case for his inclusion. You missed the 'nuance' picking you up on your admission of his being lightweight!

We are missing a player in the middle of the pitch who can make a bit of space, wrong foot the defence and carry the ball on instead of checking back. Winchester does this.

[RobOAFC]

Winchestes strength has improved over the last few years but is at times suspect. He does disappear from games which needs to be addressed but he is a naturally talented footballer. The problem I have is that if he isn't 'on it' then you may as well play Philli instead as no matter what people spout he does a job for us anywhere on the park. No thrills but a steady job none the less in positions that are not natural for him. That's the last 3 manages fault not Phiilis and he does get unfair abuse for it.

 

I would maybe try Winchester on the right instead of Croft and see how he goes on especially if Brown isn't playing as he won't have to concentrate as much on covering back. Will he cross more than Croft would? I don't think he would tbh.

 

 

Isn't every players physical strength suspect at times? People seem to pick him out because he isn't the type to win headers from a 50 yard pass. The likes of Croft and Poleon are bigger than Winchester but Winchester is the one least likely to be muscled off the ball.

 

Even if he isn't 'on' his game he still has the ability to create something and win a game unlike some other players at the club, which is why he should be playing. Winchester is one of 3, maybe 4 players (Forte & Poleon, maybe Green/Jones?) at the club who can pull something out of nowhere to win/get us back into a game.

No one else in our midfield currently has the ability or is likely to take 3/4 opposition players out of the game with a couple of touches. We can play all the players who provide industry as we like such as Kelly, Jones etc but ultimately we need a bit of quality in there for attacking aswell. He does go missing in games currently, but if he didn't then he wouldn't be with Latics.

 

With Philli, I'd play him as a striker and nowhere else unless we need cover for a game or two, but not when there are better players for that position.

[b0ndl1ne]

Winchestes strength has improved over the last few years but is at times suspect. He does disappear from games which needs to be addressed but he is a naturally talented footballer. The problem I have is that if he isn't 'on it' then you may as well play Philli instead as no matter what people spout he does a job for us anywhere on the park. No thrills but a steady job none the less in positions that are not natural for him. That's the last 3 manages fault not Phiilis and he does get unfair abuse for it.

 

I would maybe try Winchester on the right instead of Croft and see how he goes on especially if Brown isn't playing as he won't have to concentrate as much on covering back. Will he cross more than Croft would? I don't think he would tbh.

 

Just to point out Croft & Dunn are not overweight. Just because a player is built a little bigger doesn't mean its fat. They have a big arse which they should use to their advantage holding players off. Was Daglish fat in his playing days? He had the same build. I found it ironic on Saturday to hear a very large someone shout for Croft to pretend the ball was a pie when it looked like he's eaten Carl Winchester himself!

But Philli doing a job anywhere on the park isn't working, that's the point

[ChaddySmoker]

We are missing a player in the middle of the pitch who can make a bit of space, wrong foot the defence and carry the ball on instead of checking back. Winchester does this.

Thats a fair point but how many times in a game does he do this? Nowhere near enough in my opinion to cover for his downside being a lack of defensive work.

I dont see how the manager can trust him centrally and our last few managers have not. If he plays wide right he never goes outside his man and gets a cross in.

Fulton wuld play every game for me. He is a much more complete midfield player and constantly finds little pockets of space to keep us moving forward

[nzlatic]

Thats a fair point but how many times in a game does he do this? Nowhere near enough in my opinion to cover for his downside being a lack of defensive work.

I dont see how the manager can trust him centrally and our last few managers have not. If he plays wide right he never goes outside his man and gets a cross in.

Fulton wuld play every game for me. He is a much more complete midfield player and constantly finds little pockets of space to keep us moving forward

Even if Winchester only does this a few times in a game it's better than not at all.

 

This is where a standard things-were-better-back-in-the-old-days 4-4-2 formation falls down for me. 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 or whatever you want to call it has enough cover to allow players like Winchester to not be :censored:ting themselves about defensive cover and play within himself (like he was against Doncaster), but to play with a bit of freedom because he's got Kelly and 1 other to track back if he gets caught out of position. Kelly, Fulton and Jones do the up and down work, Winchester floats around on the right/in the centre and Poleon supports the main striker from the left.

[ChaddySmoker]

Even if Winchester only does this a few times in a game it's better than not at all.

 

This is where a standard things-were-better-back-in-the-old-days 4-4-2 formation falls down for me. 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 or whatever you want to call it has enough cover to allow players like Winchester to not be :censored:ting themselves about defensive cover and play within himself (like he was against Doncaster), but to play with a bit of freedom because he's got Kelly and 1 other to track back if he gets caught out of position. Kelly, Fulton and Jones do the up and down work, Winchester floats around on the right/in the centre and Poleon supports the main striker from the left.

So you are basically saying that we play 4-3-3 that doesnt have the potential to convert to a 4-5-1. With a defence that has conceded 3 and 4 goals in the last 2 games? Brave or Foolish? I think that our fullbacks would get murdered by a good team and dont forget we havent played anybody really decent yet at home.

[Stevie_J]

Winchestes strength has improved over the last few years but is at times suspect. He does disappear from games which needs to be addressed but he is a naturally talented footballer. The problem I have is that if he isn't 'on it' then you may as well play Philli instead as no matter what people spout he does a job for us anywhere on the park. No thrills but a steady job none the less in positions that are not natural for him. That's the last 3 manages fault not Phiilis and he does get unfair abuse for it.

 

I would maybe try Winchester on the right instead of Croft and see how he goes on especially if Brown isn't playing as he won't have to concentrate as much on covering back. Will he cross more than Croft would? I don't think he would tbh.

 

Just to point out Croft & Dunn are not overweight. Just because a player is built a little bigger doesn't mean its fat. They have a big arse which they should use to their advantage holding players off. Was Daglish fat in his playing days? He had the same build. I found it ironic on Saturday to hear a very large someone shout for Croft to pretend the ball was a pie when it looked like he's eaten Carl Winchester himself!

Dalglish was coming to the end of his playing days when I started taking an interest in football as a kid but my memory of him is a man far leaner than Croft or Dunn.

[nzlatic]

So you are basically saying that we play 4-3-3 that doesnt have the potential to convert to a 4-5-1. With a defence that has conceded 3 and 4 goals in the last 2 games? Brave or Foolish? I think that our fullbacks would get murdered by a good team and dont forget we havent played anybody really decent yet at home.

Why can't it convert to a 4-5-1? We don't need 10 players behind the ball to be defensively solid. Winchester did a decent role of keeping things solid at Doncaster but couldn't play freely because he'd leave Jones by himself. I'm saying if he's got Kelly Jones and Fulton too if needed behind him or able to fill in then it doesn't matter if he's caught up field when he's trying to create something.

[deyres42]

So you are basically saying that we play 4-3-3 that doesnt have the potential to convert to a 4-5-1. With a defence that has conceded 3 and 4 goals in the last 2 games? Brave or Foolish? I think that our fullbacks would get murdered by a good team and dont forget we havent played anybody really decent yet at home.

Apart from Peterborough.

 

And well fancied Bradford.

[ChaddySmoker]

Apart from Peterborough.

 

And well fancied Bradford.

You forgot the mighty Wigan!

[ChaddySmoker]

Why can't it convert to a 4-5-1? We don't need 10 players behind the ball to be defensively solid. Winchester did a decent role of keeping things solid at Doncaster but couldn't play freely because he'd leave Jones by himself. I'm saying if he's got Kelly Jones and Fulton too if needed behind him or able to fill in then it doesn't matter if he's caught up field when he's trying to create something.

You are contradicting yourself! By the way its 9 players behind the ball that we need not 10! Mind you perhaps 10 might help out our defence at the moment.

I do wonder why people feel that they can defend Winchester at Doncaster for the same role that Philly (who was crap last week) gets castigated for in games.

So when Winchester and Poleon get caught upfield we will be playing 4-3-3. That is why managers dont pick him!

Listen we all know that Croft has been crap and that Connor Brown has been :censored:e and that Jones should be playing centrally BUT Winchester is not the answer to any of those problems. If there is 1 player who should come in (apart from Fulton obviously) it is a left sided midfielder but we dont have any-yet!

If we do not get in someone else left footed apart from the fullback then Yeates comes into the equation rather than Winchester. And he can cross the ball!

[nzlatic]

You are contradicting yourself! By the way its 9 players behind the ball that we need not 10! Mind you perhaps 10 might help out our defence at the moment.

I do wonder why people feel that they can defend Winchester at Doncaster for the same role that Philly (who was crap last week) gets castigated for in games.

So when Winchester and Poleon get caught upfield we will be playing 4-3-3. That is why managers dont pick him!

Listen we all know that Croft has been crap and that Connor Brown has been :censored:e and that Jones should be playing centrally BUT Winchester is not the answer to any of those problems. If there is 1 player who should come in (apart from Fulton obviously) it is a left sided midfielder but we dont have any-yet!

If we do not get in someone else left footed apart from the fullback then Yeates comes into the equation rather than Winchester. And he can cross the ball!

Teams don't attack with all 10 outfield players. 4 defenders and 3 midfielders should be able to cope with any attack if Poleon and Winchester are slow getting back in. Kelly, Jones and Fulton are all mobile enough to do the leg work. Let Winchester worry about creating stuff. Besides, he did a decent job of holding position when he needed to against Doncaster so I'm not sure why you think we'd be a man down when we don't have the ball if he's playing.

[yarddog73]

Although only around 40 people have voted it seems 80% of our fans disagree with your view CS.

[ChaddySmoker]

4 defenders and 3 midfielders should be able to cope with any attack if Poleon and Winchester are slow getting back in. Kelly, Jones and Fulton are all mobile enough to do the leg work. Let Winchester worry about creating stuff.

so its 4-3-3 with nothing on the left side then?

[ChaddySmoker]

Although only around 40 people have voted it seems 80% of our fans disagree with your view CS.

Only 80%. When i was arguing that Wesolowski should be released or offered lower wages, it was more like 97.5%.

[yarddog73]

It amazes me how you slated the workhorse Wes yet dish out the same hate for the technically gifted Winchester, what is it you actually want? When you realise we are playing at League 1 level you might understand we won't get a Yaya Toure for £400 a week.

 

One question though, how can you be such big fan of Philliskirk's industry yet knock a player like Wes who grafted for the team and scored twice as many goals?

[nzlatic]

so its 4-3-3 with nothing on the left side then?

Eh? Poleon is on the left but getting as close to Higdon as possible. Winchester on the right with more of a floating role. Jones/Fulton supporting the attack wherever needed. They can get out wide either side if necessary.

 

When defending everyone drops back including Poleon and Winchester. Are you saying that it isn't possible to be solid with that team/formation?

 

We need to find a way of playing that enables our most creative players to do just that.

[dec666]

Although only around 40 people have voted it seems 80% of our fans disagree with your view CS.

That's actually quite surprising. I've always thought it was the majority of our fan base that are obsessed with players who run around a lot.

 

Perhaps people are just fed up of watching conference standard players like Philiskirk waste our time on a Saturday.

 

The rest of us just want to be entertained.

[ChaddySmoker]

It amazes me how you slated the workhorse Wes yet dish out the same hate for the technically gifted Winchester, what is it you actually want? When you realise we are playing at League 1 level you might understand we won't get a Yaya Toure for £400 a week.

 

One question though, how can you be such big fan of Philliskirk's industry yet knock a player like Wes who grafted for the team and scored twice as many goals?

Wes was being played as the forward 1 of two central midfielders and wasnt creating anything really-scored a handfull and ran around a lot, I grant you!

Winchester might do some creative work (not enough?) going forward but is a liability defensively to the team. This is why he hasnt been getting selected!

Chalk and Cheese really but both not very good all round players! Both not a patch on Kelly or Jones or even Fulton. Neither good enough to get on the same pitch as Korey Smith who was slated for never getting forward but couldnt do with the team set up! The solution was to get rid of Wes!

Unfortunately some other team came in for Korey and got promoted with him providing a solid base for the season!

Philly is a striker or even a number 10 but whenever he plays there he gets dragged back to cover for less able midfielders and because he has done such a good job there he now finds himself selected in midfield where he has done a very adequate job (Saturday excluded) for quite a few matches.

Give the lad a bit of credit he has been playing well even when out of position-that is why the managers have been selecting him there!

Winchester is not the answer, he was part of the problem which will not be solved if he comes back in. Philly in midfield is not the answer but has been used as a stop gap in there. We have problems all over the pitch as Scunthorpe quite capably proved!

[Stevie_J]

I've removed a post from this thread.

 

Cool your jets, people. Polite reminder not to resort to personal insults.

[yarddog73]

I think Philly is our 2nd or 3rd best player in most positions, we dont play with a No 10 as such, his strike rate as a striker is poor he isn't a patch on Jones centrally and we have way better players who can play in the wide positions, have you ever seen him win an header? Now I understand why he gets picked because he is a good pro and does a job but the simple fact is he is playing in a league or two above his ability, he would be okay from the bench but to try and accomodate him at the expense of players like Jones is for me criminal.

[dec666]

Wes was being played as the forward 1 of two central midfielders and wasnt creating anything really-scored a handfull and ran around a lot, I grant you!

Winchester might do some creative work (not enough?) going forward but is a liability defensively to the team. This is why he hasnt been getting selected!

Chalk and Cheese really but both not very good all round players! Both not a patch on Kelly or Jones or even Fulton. Neither good enough to get on the same pitch as Korey Smith who was slated for never getting forward but couldnt do with the team set up! The solution was to get rid of Wes!

Unfortunately some other team came in for Korey and got promoted with him providing a solid base for the season!

Philly is a striker or even a number 10 but whenever he plays there he gets dragged back to cover for less able midfielders and because he has done such a good job there he now finds himself selected in midfield where he has done a very adequate job (Saturday excluded) for quite a few matches.

Give the lad a bit of credit he has been playing well even when out of position-that is why the managers have been selecting him there!

Winchester is not the answer, he was part of the problem which will not be solved if he comes back in. Philly in midfield is not the answer but has been used as a stop gap in there. We have problems all over the pitch as Scunthorpe quite capably proved!

Which problem was this, exactly? He's started three games this season, only the Peterborough game we lost and every player on the pitch was a disgrace that day.

 

A Defensive liability? Before Johnson left last season, we'd conceded 31 goals in the 28 games Winchester played. We've conceded 20 already this season in our first 12...

 

Does anybody remember a single goal Winchester was personally at fault for, this season or last?

 

Your opinion has absolutely no basis whatsoever.