joe_lead Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 One for the oldies this. Back in the early 60s immediately after we finished bottom of 4th Division our average attendance jumped from about 5k to over 12k even though we still finishing mid table. Was it all down to Bobby Johnstone or were there other factors at play. My dad reckons it was simply the 'Bobby' effect but he does talk some :censored:e at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Certainly a big factor - though the start of 60/61 before Johnstone came we got much more than 5000. Crowds were bigger generally then - less car ownership meant people watched their local team, nowhere near as much other leisure options, low prices, etc Latics were regarded as a well supported club and in 62/3 got promoted from div 4 averaging over 14000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I think the main factor was that there was sod all else to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lead Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 it's more the jump from 5k to 12k in one season I was trying to confirm. It also coincided with drops in attendances at City and United. I find it hard to believe that one man can make such a difference, if it was Wow. Could be other factors like we may have also installed new turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I think the main factor was that there was sod all else to do! The main reason a lot went was for the entertainment and attacking flair in the 60s/70s teams (same with the late 80s early 90s), the opposite is why many don't go nowadays. A new year resolution for SR, give the fans something to shout about and plenty of goals at BP. I read the other day Southport once conceded 106 goals and finished mid table, the high number goals they scored ensured that. Let's have a go please and provide some entertainment. Our dog used to want to turn around when approaching the vets, that's how some feel when entering BP today. Edited December 30, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 it's more the jump from 5k to 12k in one season I was trying to confirm. It also coincided with drops in attendances at City and United. I find it hard to believe that one man can make such a difference, if it was Wow. Could be other factors like we may have also installed new turnstiles. The season before -59/60 - our average would have been around 5/6000 yes but 60/61 crowds were up before Johnstone came. Between 6-9000. Jack Rowley had brought in players like Lister, McCue, Branagan , before Bobby and there was a sense of progress even if early results were poor. Johnstone's debut confirmed this and was a real coup - 17116 at home to see us beat Exeter 5-2 ( I can remember the excitement) and we had bigger crowds after that. So yes Bobby was a massive factor but the whole team was more than xciting than in the past couple of years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The main reason a lot went was for the entertainment and attacking flair in the 60s/70s teams (same with the late 80s early 90s), the opposite is why many don't go nowadays. A new year resolution for SR, give the fans something to shout about and plenty of goals at BP. I read the other day Southport once conceded 106 goals and finished mid table, the high number goals they scored ensured that. Let's have a go please and provide some entertainment. Our dog used to want to turn around when approaching the vets, that's how some feel when entering BP today. Can't argue but there were other factors. I seem to remember that we used to kick off at 3.15 back then because that fitted in with the end of a shift at some very local mills. That would have generated significant groups who were embedded in a routine. One of the factors exacerbating the recent collapse in attendance, I would guess, would be that ifa mate or mates decides to stop going then so do others in the group as it is no longer the group experience it once was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Don't think we kicked off at 315 till the Bates era? Prior to floodlights in 61 we kicked off at 230 in winter months ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Don't think we kicked off at 315 till the Bates era? Prior to floodlights in 61 we kicked off at 230 in winter months ! Didn't we once have 13,000 for a Tuesday afternoon kick off, Think it was Chesterfield in a FA Cup replay which we lost. I couldn't get time of work for that one, but went to the first game on the train to Chesterfield, a great match which ended 4-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Is it possible that the very real and very British collective Saturday afternoon excitement has dissipated because, at our level, the game is so totally dissociated from the Premier league. From my memory of the Seventies, eighties and nineties, although still a hierarchy, the Football League was the same family from 1st division to 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Is it possible that the very real and very British collective Saturday afternoon excitement has dissipated because, at our level, the game is so totally dissociated from the Premier league. From my memory of the Seventies, eighties and nineties, although still a hierarchy, the Football League was the same family from 1st division to 4th. I read many players preferred to play locally in those days and refused offers to play higher with faraway clubs as for money and uprooting the family reasons it just wasn't worth it. Hence a levelling out in quality of the leagues. Edited December 30, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I read many players preferred to play locally in those days and refused offers to play higher with faraway clubs as for money and uprooting the family reasons it just wasn't worth it. Hence a levelling out in quality of the leagues. Hence City being like a larger scaled version of Latics. I remember watching the documentary "City" and being surprised that as late as 1981, even a big club like City was almost wholly "Northern". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Is it possible that the very real and very British collective Saturday afternoon excitement has dissipated because, at our level, the game is so totally dissociated from the Premier league. From my memory of the Seventies, eighties and nineties, although still a hierarchy, the Football League was the same family from 1st division to 4th. Yes, it is the removal of hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Hence City being like a larger scaled version of Latics. I remember watching the documentary "City" and being surprised that as late as 1981, even a big club like City was almost wholly "Northern". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3KVEy1XKoc And didn't Glasgow Celtic win the European cup with every player local born? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 And didn't Glasgow Celtic win the European cup with every player local born?Within 20 miles or so. Imagine if Scotland had ever picked most of them for the national team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 One for the oldies this. Back in the early 60s immediately after we finished bottom of 4th Division our average attendance jumped from about 5k to over 12k even though we still finishing mid table. Was it all down to Bobby Johnstone or were there other factors at play. My dad reckons it was simply the 'Bobby' effect but he does talk some :censored:e at times. hi joe - I did a post about this some months ago (I`ll have to see if I can find it) having just read a book about Bobby Johnstone. According to the author (and I`ve lent it out so can't remember his name) it was indeed purely the "Bobby Johnstone" effect. The book details the crowds immediately preceding his arrival - and then, as someone has already posted on here, the huge crowd that turned up for his home debut. He also had a dramatic effect on the results. By all accounts an utterly incredible player. I have an elderly friend who has been watching Latics since 1950 and he describes him simply as "a genius". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Joe - found the previous post I was referring to :- "Just finished reading the excellent book "Bobby Johnstone - The Passing of an Age". He came to Latics in Autumn 1960 when we were rooted at the foot of the old division 4 with a real possibility of dropping out of the league altogether. Crowds were down to a hardcore of around 5,000 to 6,000. He made his debut at BP against Exeter in front of a crowd of 17,116 !! Utterly incredible that one player could generate such interest - and he scored and played a leading role in a 5-2 win. 28,000 turned out for the home game against Peterborough the following February! It's a really remarkable story and everyone connected with the club comments in the book that, as one player, he effectively saved Latics and filled the coffers in a miraculous way. From being "dead and buried" that season, following his arrival, Latics embarked on a run of 20 league games with 14 wins, 2 draws and just 4 defeats. So you see - miracles are possible! By the way - after finishing his Latics career - he rented a council maisonette in Hollinwood! A cracking read if anyone wants to know what football used to be like - never had the privilege of seeing him myself as 10 years before my time following Latics but described as "simply a genius" of a footballer by some very knowledgeable football people.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Is there an equivalent affordable star player getting on a bit we could sign today to generate such interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonLatics Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Is there an equivalent affordable star player getting on a bit we could sign today to generate such interest? They all go to china or the MLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagger Lee Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Is there an equivalent affordable star player getting on a bit we could sign today to generate such interest? A more modern version of the effect was Kevin Keagan signing for Newcastle back in 81 or 82, the brewery made an enormous sponsorship deal just to help pay his wages but the effect on the crowds, the team and the whole city of Newcastle itself was monumental. But in this day and age I can't think of anyone that would have that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) A more modern version of the effect was Kevin Keagan signing for Newcastle back in 81 or 82, the brewery made an enormous sponsorship deal just to help pay his wages but the effect on the crowds, the team and the whole city of Newcastle itself was monumental. But in this day and age I can't think of anyone that would have that effect. Would Scholes have had that effect a few years ago, assuming he'd have signed for us for next to nothing? Would Giggs draw in the crowds as manager if we offered him the chance, again assuming he'd want little salary just to get his foot on the ladder? Edited December 31, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospect100 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Didn't we once have 13,000 for a Tuesday afternoon kick off, Think it was Chesterfield in a FA Cup replay which we lost. I couldn't get time of work for that one, but went to the first game on the train to Chesterfield, a great match which ended 4-4. Yes, remember this afternoon kick off midweek and arriving after school with 20 minutes or so to go with a few hundred others who were let in free of charge to see the end of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) Hence City being like a larger scaled version of Latics. I remember watching the documentary "City" and being surprised that as late as 1981, even a big club like City was almost wholly "Northern". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3KVEy1XKoc Roger Palmer is in that video.... nodding his head to Malcolm Allison's words of wisdom and then turning away dreaming of scoring in front of the Chaddy End. Edited December 31, 2016 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Roger Palmer is in that video.... nodding his head to Malcolm Allison's words of wisdom and then turning away dreaming of scoring in front of the Chaddy End. ....and Tony Henry..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 ....and Tony Henry..... ....ok, so I've got nowt to do and even tho it's City.... it's close to Home so I'm watching the whole thing. More Palmer & T. Henry cameo's as City lose 1-0 away to Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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