bigfatjoe1

I wasn't thinking of bp but life/football in general and the fact that it effects every club. I even hear United fans moan on a regular basis and some Arsenal fans down at the library. It's an unfortunate fact of life and football reflects life. I'm not condoning it, but it will always be a part of the experience. I remember the abuse that one group used to give to Ron Futcher. The usual crap. If he gave away a foul they use to shout 'Off, off.' It really wound me up. But then you realize it's everywhere and all the time, no matter how successful a team happens to be. Perhaps we should have a moaners paddock - a bit like the old family paddock but for moaners and groaners!! That way we could achieve the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number without interfering with the natural laws of supply and demand!!!

You can be a prickly one cj but you are quite right. The fact is that fans have and will always moan whatever the situation. It's a fact of football. It happens at every club, always has and always will. And why not? What did Hobbes say - life is short, sharp and brutish, or something like that. Football is a release for some people. Indeed, it may well be a part of the inner defense system for the oppressive capitalist system or it may simply stop someone from completely cracking up because they work long hours and then go home to a nagging wife and kids. The 'moaner' is a part of the rich fabric of football. stop moaning about it.

I watched us struggle for years in the old second division. The first few years under Royle were relegation struggles. But the manner in which we played was not dull. There werealways some cracking matches. It's not a case of 'this is the third division, accept it' or the usual rubbish about the Premiership. You can still play exciting football whatever the level. This has been very boring by any standards. I think you're getting too used to watching crap.

There have been many constructive arguments, but they're ignored. Mids has made more sense than most. You happy clappers think 'well there doesn't seem to be an alternative therefore stick with crap.' Very logical and constructive. The problem has always been in this debate that the Sheridan lovers make vacuous statements about how good he's been over the last twelve months but produce no evidence. Player turnover, lack of clear organization, amount of boring football, inability to attract players (for very long). He may have potential as a coach but as a manager he has clearly demonstrated a complete lack of ability. Many have been 'constructive' and suggested he needs a senior figure, but he wouldn't want that. As for alternatives, we can all reel names off but you have to actually know people from the inside to determine their ability and nobody on this site has that knowledge so making alternative suggestions does not demonstrate an inability to be constructive but a simple honesty. When Royle and Dowie git the job I was surprised - never saw it coming. But then why should i, i didn't know them or their abilities. Not putting forward alternatives (though many have) is not an argument for not saying criticism is not valid and should be followed by a torrent of abuse in a wolf-pack mentality.

Last season doesn't count. The cup apart, it's been very dull, especially at home. What crap are you used to watching???NEVER DULL. Well, that's reflected in the home crowds then isn't it!!! It's been that exciting the season ticket sales will go through the roof.

That's a fair point. I'm not disputing the debate is justified from both angles. It's just that a group of members don't just defend the manager they embark on rants which often become not only passionate but personal. IMO Sheridan has the makings of a good coach, trying to play football, but management skills are different. Royle was not a great coach, but he was good at the management side, the politics, the wheeling and dealing, the organization and the man management. I can't help thinking Sheridan would've been better off under an experienced wing.

Agreed. I starting think there is something strange about the passionate defense of Sheridan on the Board. Critics get hammered and even insulted in such a way as to make it bizarre, but why? I'm beginning to suspect some kind of homo-erotic connection!!!

Agreed. This division is tedious. painfully DULL.

Perhaps a slightly diffefrent structure would help and may have helped Sheridan. Royle as Director of Football, but give the job a proper clear definition - he's in charge of all aspects. His experience is now huge. He knows the politics of the game inside out. Ignoring his stint here, he has won things at City and Everton and he kept Ipswich afloat at a very difficult time. He also has enormous affection and passion for the club, including all us miserable gits. Allow him to manage young coaches. Sheridan would've been perfect under his tutelage. Other possible coaches under his control might include Philiskirk or Bunn. Rithcie's track record leaves a question mark, but he did a great job initially at Barnsley and he kept us up in very difficult circumstances. Two other points. The idea that criticism of Sheridan has not and could not be constructive is ignorant. It has and is. You may want him to stay, but he is far from protection from what has generally been justified criticism. To put up a blanket defense without recognizing the many flaws is plain ignorant if not arrogant. Second, the idea of Brian Horton is one of the most wonderfully outrageous suggestions I've come across.

They're a cracking idea. Three for the price of one. One in each draw and one on the bed. Only in Yorkshire...

Do social services know that you keep your kids in a cupboard?? Mind you, I must admit it's tempting...

We need consistency. Stop chopping and changing. Bring back Royle!!!! He was here 12 years. He could over see his kingdom, placing day to day coaching into the hands of Willie and even Ritchie. In all seroiousness though, criticizing the owners is a bit ridiculous. It's simple -without them we would not exist.

I'm only guessing here (so please correct if i'm way off the mark), but haven't they pumped in around £6-7 million (debts, ground, annual losses)?

Everton will go down as one of those great moments. Worst? So many poor home performances, but i was really frustrated with the Huddersfield cup game. Expectation was high and Hudders were quite poor, but we we were worse.

I made the same point a few weeks ago. TTA are in it for the property investment/profit, which is fine because we both gain. I also think they don't want promotion yet because it would be far too expensive. Develop the ground, bring on extra streams of income, then build from the bottom. Also, i repeat, they see Sheridan as the man to keep them in this division.

Yes, and that's a much more accurate test of opinion.

It's like living in a parallel universe - this site and actually talking/listening to people at BP. Most on this board tends to offer support for Sheridan, but fans i hear and talk to actually don't like Sheridan and would sack tomorrow. They are, at best, very frustrated at the poor quality of football at home, the high turnover of players, lack of planning and organisation and the impression left by Sheridan (ie thick). I've not actually met anyone who disagrees - until I come on here. No matter how happy and clappy you like to be, the bottom line is that there is a great deal of discontent at the standard of football dished out over the last 12 months.

Subtle irony.

Poor John. I can't help thinking at times he'd be happier in his shell suit with a pit bull and a place on Shameless.

Sheridan is the man to keep us in this dvision!!!

You can't stop players from wanting to play at a higher level, it's just wrong. They wouldn't exactly be happy to stay against their will. We're not running Dynamo Moscow in 1980. We should be ambitious, but you have to be fair and realsitic towards your players.

Time to stop selling and start building...ideally. But if offers come in from the Championship then it would be wrong to stand in the way of any player.

Whatever haapened to Steve Moran? Looked great and was PFA player of the year 1983-84.

4-0 nd it's only half-time. LOL.

Was that it!!! Still, I thought someone had died with the grave news that Perryman had been sent off and then the news that all clubs had a collective debt of £40 million.