Tax man

[Scapegoat]

Latics get away with £260k

 

Proportionally though, we paid a lot more back than most of the others. Wonder why?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7741859.stm

 

Edited - Link didn't work. Not sure how to do them. Tried again with the straight link

Edited November 23, 2008 by Scapegoat

[boboafc]

removed, please view the BBC website for a full listing.

[cmr]

Its a disgrace the amount Leeds, Leicester and McDons have paid considering the money they throw around.

 

How do McDons get away with paying nothing?

Edited November 23, 2008 by cmr

[Diego_Sideburns]

At the Creditors' (including season ticket hilders) meeting on 8th January 2004 in the same Council Chamber where we had the Planning Committee meetings last year, Administrators PKF succesfully sought approval for a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). This provided for the Inland Revenue and HM Customs and Excise to receive 32 pence in the pound on their debt. Other creditors (including lots of small businesses and Iain Dowie*) received nothing.

 

The Administrators needed a Creditors' Committee to be formed and, after nobody would volunteer, I along with Mrs. S. and another OWTB member volunteered and had the inaugural meeting straight away in part of the Queen Elizabeth Hall compex.

 

* Lights the blue touchpaper and stands back!

Edited November 23, 2008 by Diego_Sideburns

[rudemedic]

I was listening to five live earlier on today and the report was heavily featured on there. Albeit we owe the tax man £260k, we are still paying 50p in the pound, clubs like Leeds, Leicester and Bradford who although are paying more are only paying 1p in the pound (so 1% of what they owe). I know we are paying more slightly voluntarily and didn't get punished with a points loss unlike some of the others but for us to be paying back 50 times as much relatively compared to others in the same division is a bit wrong. I think something does need to be done about this though and a footballer shouldn't get all his money back just because he is in football, Leeds owe money to some very rich footballers indeed and they will receive all of the money owed to them. But the tax payer/man doesn't get all the money owed to him. I understand why football is a special case as clubs owed money wouldn't then receive the money they are owed by a team in debt otherwise but think that the taxman/ payer should get more back than 1p in the pound.

[leeslover]

It's nothing to do with football or which division you are in - it's simple accountancy. You may as well compare all the businesses with an O and an L in the name. The business can't be resurrected as a going concern without settling footballing debts as it wouldn't be allowed back in by the FA.

[opinions4u]

The whole concept of clubs deliberately overspending on players and wages, not setting aside money for tax and national insurance on those wages, going in to administration and escaping debt via a CVA and carrying on trading afterwards is wrong.

 

Latics were bloody lucky that the points penalty didn't exist at the time Chris Moore destroyed the business.

 

While the points penalties introduced by the Football League are right, they still don't address the general financial mismanagement of football clubs, driven by excessive player wages at all levels of the game.

 

If stories are to be believed, the likes of Neil Kilkenny earning an average Leeds wage of £10k a week, or Liam Dickinson never playing a first team game for Derby but drawing £6k a week would be good examples of wages outside the premiership.

 

5,000 attendance, average admission cost £12 = £60k a game x 23 games = £1.38m. So Latics in 2008 cold effectively afford to field a team of 3 - 2 x Kilkenneys and a Dickinson as long as they don't pay any rates, employ any backroom staff (luxuries like a manager and stuff) or pick up any other bills along the way.

Edited November 23, 2008 by opinions4u

[SAV]

The whole concept of clubs deliberately overspending on players and wages, not setting aside money for tax and national insurance on those wages, going in to administration and escaping debt via a CVA and carrying on trading afterwards is wrong.

 

Latics were bloody lucky that the points penalty didn't exist at the time C***s M***e destroyed the business.

 

While the points penalties introduced by the Football League are right, they still don't address the general financial mismanagement of football clubs, driven by excessive player wages at all levels of the game.

 

Never mention THAT name

Edited November 23, 2008 by SAV

[Diego_Sideburns]

The business can't be resurrected as a going concern without settling footballing debts as it wouldn't be allowed back in by the FA.

 

The CVA had to be approved before the Football League would agree to the transfer of League membership to the new Oldham Athletic company.

[leeslover]

[leeslover]

The CVA had to be approved before the Football League would agree to the transfer of League membership to the new Oldham Athletic company.

It goes beyond that Diego - the FL have no special say in the processing of the liabilities and assets of the failed business, but it is part of their rules that the Phoenix company can't adopt the previous League position unless they pay all the football related liabilities in full. This means that the other creditors, including the taxman, are left with less choice in what they will accept as the whole thing will be wound up if it isn't able to proceed as a football club. In a strange way it might be an argument for keeping the ownership of the ground away from the club, as if they were together it might have made a higher return for the people who were owed to see the club go to the wall and the ground sold.

 

As for Dowie, he can go piss up a rope.

[Diego_Sideburns]

It goes beyond that Diego - the FL have no special say in the processing of the liabilities and assets of the failed business, but it is part of their rules that the Phoenix company can't adopt the previous League position unless they pay all the football related liabilities in full. This means that the other creditors, including the taxman, are left with less choice in what they will accept as the whole thing will be wound up if it isn't able to proceed as a football club.

 

That's what I was saying - the CVA required the football-related liabilities to be paid in full, leaving the 32p in the £ for the Inland Revenue and Customs & Excise. Nobody buys a football club unless they are guaranteed to get the Football League membership transferred to the new company. The only way to do that is pay fully the football liabilities.

 

Not only Dowie, but a lot of small businesses had to "go piss up a rope", but most of them knew they would be able to do business (and recoup some of their losses) with the new company, if the Club survived.

[leeslover]

That's what I was saying - the CVA required the football-related liabilities to be paid in full, leaving the 32p in the £ for the Inland Revenue and Customs & Excise. Nobody buys a football club unless they are guaranteed to get the Football League membership transferred to the new company. The only way to do that is pay fully the football liabilities.

 

Not only Dowie, but a lot of small businesses had to "go piss up a rope", but most of them knew they would be able to do business (and recoup some of their losses) with the new company, if the Club survived.

I realise now that all that I said was actually contained within your earlier post.

 

I do feel a lot for the local businesses - some will have had cover against such an event, some will not. I can't recall reading about any of them stealing company cars from the club parking lot though.

[Diego_Sideburns]

I realise now that all that I said was actually contained within your earlier post.

 

I do feel a lot for the local businesses - some will have had cover against such an event, some will not. I can't recall reading about any of them stealing company cars from the club parking lot though.

 

I can't recall reading about any of them financing the pre-season flights to N. Ireland either. Eventually an anonymous donor, believed to be red-headed, paid the other tour costs.

[leeslover]

I can't recall reading about any of them financing the pre-season flights to N. Ireland either. Eventually an anonymous donor, believed to be red-headed, paid the other tour costs.

Well, Mr Tulsehill personally saw the then club captain buying butties in the shop on Rochdale Road. Maybe he added the cost to the club debts too. Dowie was trying to get money that he wasn't owed, having been on massive wages himself and demanding that we spend yet more money on top of an already vastly expensive squad. If he wants credit for putting his hand in his deep pocket at a time when so many people were doing what they could without reward, then it shows all the more about the measure of the man.

[Diego_Sideburns]

... If he wants credit for putting his hand in his deep pocket at a time when so many people were doing what they could without reward, then it shows all the more about the measure of the man.

 

The way I see it is that he motivated everyone at the Club to carry on, even when not being paid, until three wise men road into town with twenty four hours to go before liquidation. Without that motivation, I believe there would have been no Club for those wise men to buy.

 

I know that a lot of money owed to Dowie (and others) was written off by that CVA. How he tried to remedy the situation is what he will always be remembered for, which is a pity in the great scheme of things.

[Stitch_KTF]

The way I see it is that he motivated everyone at the Club to carry on, even when not being paid, until three wise men road into town with twenty four hours to go before liquidation. Without that motivation, I believe there would have been no Club for those wise men to buy.

 

I know that a lot of money owed to Dowie (and others) was written off by that CVA. How he tried to remedy the situation is what he will always be remembered for, which is a pity in the great scheme of things.

 

[leeslover]

The way I see it is that he motivated everyone at the Club to carry on, even when not being paid, until three wise men road into town with twenty four hours to go before liquidation. Without that motivation, I believe there would have been no Club for those wise men to buy.

 

I know that a lot of money owed to Dowie (and others) was written off by that CVA. How he tried to remedy the situation is what he will always be remembered for, which is a pity in the great scheme of things.

Genuine question, how long, if ever, were the wage bills unpaid for? Including people who were on the payroll without having signed a very highly paid contract that was put in front of them but happily continuing to accept more money landing in their pay packets than people who achieved more on less resources?

[oafc0000]

To be quite frank, everyone of those clubs including us, should be held accountable for that money....

 

And if you cant pay you shouldn't trade....

[jorvik_latic]

I saw this yesterday and don't like the way the table is set out. I know it's petty, but if it was set out in deficit order, we would be third from bottom.

[jimsleftfoot]

Latics get away with £260k

 

Proportionally though, we paid a lot more back than most of the others. Wonder why?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7741859.stm

 

Edited - Link didn't work. Not sure how to do them. Tried again with the straight link

 

Technically it was Brown

 

When we went into administration, HMRC was still a preferential creditor therefore we had to pay back money to them first over other creditors.

[Diego_Sideburns]

Genuine question, how long, if ever, were the wage bills unpaid for? Including people who were on the payroll without having signed a very highly paid contract that was put in front of them but happily continuing to accept more money landing in their pay packets than people who achieved more on less resources?

 

I have no details about the length of time wages were unpaid. All I know is what was in the rarely wrong Chron. Wayne Andrews left because he had a family to support. Tony Carss went to Huddersfield where they were also struggling to pay wages. Alan Hardy was suspended and the Club's employees went by coach to the Torex building off the M40 in an attempt to beg you-know-who to pay their wages.

[Diego_Sideburns]

Genuine question, how long, if ever, were the wage bills unpaid for? Including people who were on the payroll without having signed a very highly paid contract that was put in front of them but happily continuing to accept more money landing in their pay packets than people who achieved more on less resources?

 

Thanks to the excellent Oldham Advertiser archives, I've come up with these memory-jerkers.

 

The struggles during Administration:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/...ublished_29_may

Note: the ‘Norwegian Consortium’ proved to be a hoax.

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/...o_stay__for_now

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/465254_long_haul

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/465267_not_safe_yet

 

The car:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/5...nder_the_hammer

 

Still waiting to see if C**** M**** gets what his come-uppance:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1...y_killed_latics

Edited November 24, 2008 by Diego_Sideburns

[oafcmetty]

Those archives are good! I don't even remember giving this interview: http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/4...blished_18_june

[GlossopLatic]

Thanks to the excellent Oldham Advertiser archives, I've come up with these memory-jerkers.

 

The struggles during Administration:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/...ublished_29_may

Note: the ‘Norwegian Consortium’ proved to be a hoax.

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/...o_stay__for_now

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/s/465254_long_haul

 

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/465267_not_safe_yet

 

The car:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/5...nder_the_hammer

 

Still waiting to see if C**** M**** gets what his come-uppance:

http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1...y_killed_latics

 

Reading that last artical do we know what has or is likely to happen to the unmentionable one.