boundaryblue80 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I know we've talked a lot about why this season has gone so badly wrong but for me Joe has nailed two massive reasons in his comments tonight...and although, I've got a lot of criticisms of Shez, this is partly in support of him... 1) "We don't think goals" A very big statement. Is this down to the players or the management to get this into their mindset? When you see people like Gerrard and Lampard...or let's say, Delph at this level...popping up with goals, is it just coz it's part of their make up? Or something the manager has to instill? The one thing I think Joe has done for Danny Whittakers game of late is get him to gamble and he's popped up with the goals. Allott needs to be more adventurous too...since his goal at Udders he's never looked like gambling. 2) " Not having a reserve side this season has killed us" If anything has been so major in our downfall this season, this is it. Not Shez's fault either...infact, I've said a bit how Shez has struggled to keep players happy and this has been a big factor in it (and that's before getting round to discussing fitness levels etc.) I'd love to have seen the meeting where that decision took place. Who took it even...I do wish Shez had've kicked off about it. Even to the point of saying...I can't work like that. Massive, massive mistake that this season...the biggest mistake the club has made in years! Edited April 13, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I know we've talked a lot about why this season has gone so badly wrong but for me Joe has nailed two massive reasons in his comments tonight...and although, I've got a lot of criticisms of Shez, this is partly in support of him... 1) "We don't think goals" A very big statement. Is this down to the players or the management to get this into their mindset? When you see people like Gerrard and Lampard...or let's say, Delph at this level...popping up with goals, is it just coz it's part of their make up? Or something the manager has to instill? The one thing I think Joe has done for Danny Whittakers game of late is get him to gamble and he's popped up with the goals. Allott needs to be more adventurous too...since his goal at Udders he's never looked like gambling. 2) " Not having a reserve side this season has killed us" If anything has been so major in our downfall this season, this is it. Not Shez's fault either...infact, I've said a bit how Shez has struggled to keep players happy and this has been a big factor in it (and that's before getting round to discussing fitness levels etc.) I'd love to have seen the meeting where that decision took place. Who took it even...I do wish Shez had've kicked off about it. Even to the point of saying...I can't work like that. Massive, massive mistake that this season...the biggest mistake the club has made in years! have to say on the reserve team thing,in total agreement,and was astonished at the time it was done,was one of those who said it would hamper us but got shot down over it,so no point flogging a dead horse so to speak. and have posted elswhere about his comments and not thinking goals. this is something he can instill in the players,like he said they players know eards will cross,but they dont get into position early or at all to recieve. something that we was very good at first time round,the strikers knew the ball would come in and where and how,and they made damn sure they was there or there about. think this will only improve though when joe picks his own backroom team,the mindset is wrong at present,and people cant or wont change over night. new players,new coaching team,new ideas and new focus and mentality and we will be better for it.time to get back to being proffessional rather than the pub team we have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 have to say on the reserve team thing,in total agreement,and was astonished at the time it was done,was one of those who said it would hamper us but got shot down over it,so no point flogging a dead horse so to speak. and have posted elswhere about his comments and not thinking goals. this is something he can instill in the players,like he said they players know eards will cross,but they dont get into position early or at all to recieve. something that we was very good at first time round,the strikers knew the ball would come in and where and how,and they made damn sure they was there or there about. think this will only improve though when joe picks his own backroom team,the mindset is wrong at present,and people cant or wont change over night. new players,new coaching team,new ideas and new focus and mentality and we will be better for it.time to get back to being proffessional rather than the pub team we have been. Yeah, just read your comments on the "shocking" post...agree with them 100%...I think a lot of this is why he feels Taylor would be such a threat upfront. You only have to look at some of his goals this season...with his ginger barnett! That one at Millwall, he simply mugs the guy for that goal. Never thought I'd think of Taylor as a forward, but he does "think goals" and it's a massive asset at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Dropping the reserves was a huge error. We went from not having enough players to fill a reserve squad at times last season to signing more players, giving us a decent squad size but having no reserve side for them to play in and prove they should be picked. Don't use Delph Taylor has nearly twice as many goals as he does. Even Whitaker has a couple more than him. 10 million Edited April 13, 2009 by RoytonBlueLad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Dropping the reserves was a huge error. We went from not having enough players to fill a reserve squad at times last season to signing more players, giving us a decent squad size but having no reserve side for them to play in and prove they should be picked. Don't use Delph Taylor has nearly twice as many goals as he does. Even Whitaker has a couple more than him. 10 million Haha...true...just didn't want the comeback of "yeah, but that's Gerrard and Lampard...in the Prem"... Taylor "thinks goals" IMO...and for me, that is natural to him. Whereas, I think Whits is a confidence player who knows where the goal is, but needs to work on "thinking goals"...if ya get me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Haha...true...just didn't want the comeback of "yeah, but that's Gerrard and Lampard...in the Prem"... Taylor "thinks goals" IMO...and for me, that is natural to him. Whereas, I think Whits is a confidence player who knows where the goal is, but needs to work on "thinking goals"...if ya get me dont forget though were selling taylor to balance the books,according to some,so were goosed,lol i think tayls has always had that ill score if i can attitude,lets face it when he has done his wing work correctly and fired it in for the forwrds,its very frustrating when they dont even make the keeper work. if you went through the current squad,could you honestly say anybody else thinks goals though??? because thats what needs to happen,even defenders,when they go up for corners or free kicks,they should be focused on ball in the net,were just not a threat from those at present. if the forwards are firing,the midfield chip in with double figures and the defence grab a few as well,you wont be far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 When you see people like Gerrard and Lampard...or let's say, Delph at this level...popping up with goals, is it just coz it's part of their make up? Or something the manager has to instill? I'd say the answer is self-evident when you consider the difference having Wijnhard, Beckett and Hughes in recent Latics sides has immediately made. Without quality strikers sides will always struggle for goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'd say the answer is self-evident when you consider the difference having Wijnhard, Beckett and Hughes in recent Latics sides has immediately made. Without quality strikers sides will always struggle for goals. thats something joe commented on the other week,the main difference between the teams in this division is 2 decent strikers,something we have struggled with since porter left. if hughes had applied himself more rather than playing like he did for the second half of his season he could of got a hell of a lot more,and that to a certain extent canbe said for davies when here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel8157 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 thats something joe commented on the other week,the main difference between the teams in this division is 2 decent strikers,something we have struggled with since porter left. if hughes had applied himself more rather than playing like he did for the second half of his season he could of got a hell of a lot more,and that to a certain extent canbe said for davies when here. Exactly, look at Peterborough, average team- fantastic front two, Leeds you could possibly say the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) 2) " Not having a reserve side this season has killed us" If anything has been so major in our downfall this season, this is it. Not Shez's fault either...infact, I've said a bit how Shez has struggled to keep players happy and this has been a big factor in it (and that's before getting round to discussing fitness levels etc.) I'd love to have seen the meeting where that decision took place. Who took it even...I do wish Shez had've kicked off about it. Even to the point of saying...I can't work like that. Massive, massive mistake that this season...the biggest mistake the club has made in years! Who took the decision and what was the reasoning ? Made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me... If only there was a "fan on the board" who could clear stuff like this up Edited April 14, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Who took the decision and what was the reasoning ? Made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me... If only there was a "fan on the board" who could clear stuff like this up It was Shez' decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It was Shez' decision. People who have posted above have suggested otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 true but I can only report what I know about the situation from a conversation I had 8 months ago with a club official. This was at a time when the decision hadn't become the issue that it has for many so there would be no need for said official to 'spin' things to me at the time. I asked a straight question and got a very straight answer. Just reporting what I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) true but I can only report what I know about the situation from a conversation I had 8 months ago with a club official. This was at a time when the decision hadn't become the issue that it has for many so there would be no need for said official to 'spin' things to me at the time. I asked a straight question and got a very straight answer. Just reporting what I know. Is this from someone high up or is it the tea lady sort of level of "club official" ? Edited April 14, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 1) "We don't think goals" Agree completely with this statement. Too often in the last half of the season I used to regularly think"where is a goal going to come from". As for a front 2? Yes a partnership up front is good, but they need to come from all over the side and not rely on one or two players who can be injured/suspended/off-form. Going back to JR's success period at Latics - centrebacks would bag 4 or 5 a season, full-backs another few and then the mid-field would normally match the front players for goals. Its a team ethic, not just a case of signing 2 forwards. This is what makes Talyor a great player not just good for the level we are at. Gambles to get in the box, follows in shots, and isn't afraid to have a pop from a distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Agree completely with this statement. Too often in the last half of the season I used to regularly think"where is a goal going to come from". As for a front 2? Yes a partnership up front is good, but they need to come from all over the side and not rely on one or two players who can be injured/suspended/off-form. Going back to JR's success period at Latics - centrebacks would bag 4 or 5 a season, full-backs another few and then the mid-field would normally match the front players for goals. Its a team ethic, not just a case of signing 2 forwards. This is what makes Talyor a great player not just good for the level we are at. Gambles to get in the box, follows in shots, and isn't afraid to have a pop from a distance. I agree with this entirely, Joes past success was from spreading the goals around. But saying, that, if only 1 or 2 of the proven scrorers had hit the net with anything like the frequency they did in the past then I feel we would have been promoted by now. We signed players with a reputation but that were not performing. Being at Latics did not help them. But the casue of that is another debate entirely. We seem to be the graveyard of goalscorers, some of whom go onto better things. MAybe a striker as manager might help this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 2 goals in 40+ games. Our loaned strikers combined strikerate this season. Even Rueben's eclipses that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It was Shez' decision. ....... I find it really hard to beleive that any "football" person would have taken that decision, it seems more likely one taken by a bean counter. But if you have a then.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Looks like a cost decision. One extra player in the squad = can't afford the coach fares for the reserves! Corney: "You can have him if you save money by scrapping the reserves" Shez: "Ok" Shez 3 months later: "Can I have somebody else on loan, I don't have anyone in the squad I can use" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It does sound like another failure of TTA on the footballing side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Is this from someone high up or is it the tea lady sort of level of "club official" ? Always thought club official referred to someone very high up in the club. But the tea lady bit made me laugh seen as the official in question told Chrissy T to make me a brew at the time. Anyway just telling it as it is, and these things are never black and white. It was a crazy decision imo with its roots based in a frustrating time the previous season due to a large number of injuries and reserve team cancellations. It also had a knock-on effect in terms of the type of loanees we were able to bring in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It does sound like another failure of TTA on the footballing side... not necessarily there fault,we are merely guessing who is to blame without actually knowing all the facts. that season we had the horrific injury pile up,and had no choice but to bring in loans and play the kids,the effect of playing the kids,meant that the reserve team wich had been promoted was made up of trainees,trialists and youth players,and they got battered most games to the point where tp was pulling his hair out because there confidence and morale had gone,it was literally kids against men. what should of happened the next season was that we signed adequate cover and first team players allowing the said kids to go back to the reserves and get there games confidance and everything else right. yes we signed a good few players and said how much cover we had etc etc,but then scrap the ressie side,there by not giving anybody in the first squad any chance of regular football,there for not maintaining fitness levels and so on,so when they are called upon there not ready,and get slagged off for not performing. the decision will have been taken by the manager,his assistant,and other coaches,citing footballing reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 The lack of reserve games was the problem not scraping being in the league. I'm sure the idea was to play games on our terms, when we wanted to play them so to minimize the problems of last season. Only trouble was no one actually could or be bothered to arrange these games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I know we've talked a lot about why this season has gone so badly wrong but for me Joe has nailed two massive reasons in his comments tonight...and although, I've got a lot of criticisms of Shez, this is partly in support of him... 1) "We don't think goals" A very big statement. Is this down to the players or the management to get this into their mindset? When you see people like Gerrard and Lampard...or let's say, Delph at this level...popping up with goals, is it just coz it's part of their make up? Or something the manager has to instill? The one thing I think Joe has done for Danny Whittakers game of late is get him to gamble and he's popped up with the goals. Allott needs to be more adventurous too...since his goal at Udders he's never looked like gambling. 2) " Not having a reserve side this season has killed us" If anything has been so major in our downfall this season, this is it. Not Shez's fault either...infact, I've said a bit how Shez has struggled to keep players happy and this has been a big factor in it (and that's before getting round to discussing fitness levels etc.) I'd love to have seen the meeting where that decision took place. Who took it even...I do wish Shez had've kicked off about it. Even to the point of saying...I can't work like that. Massive, massive mistake that this season...the biggest mistake the club has made in years! You say it's not Shez's fault as though you know it for fact!! This is an email I sent to Alan Hardy earlier today along with his reply.... it will clear up the debate about who actually made the decision to scrap our reserve side this season. From: Graham Keen Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:44:25 +0000 To: <alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk> Subject: Reserve team. Hi Alan, Don't know if you can answer this question but it's a hot topic on OWTB at the moment. Who's decision was it to scrap the reserve side this season? Thanks for your time, Regards, Graham Keen. --------------------------------------- Hi Graham It was at the request of the Manager but against my recommendation but the Manager said he would arrange friendly games to compensate. Therefore the directors supported him on that basis. Alan Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device Well there you go.......things are not always as we imagine. Looks like you can add another criticism of Shez to your list!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Who took the decision and what was the reasoning ? Made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense to me... If only there was a "fan on the board" who could clear stuff like this up Just to clear up this reciprecated comment of yours oafc0000 now that I am allowed to mention it in a public arena For the past 5 weeks Barry has been visiting his mother who is seriously ill very often. In fact I had a call off him an hour ago telling me that he cant now make the forum due to the fact the doctors are not expecting his poorly mother to last for much longer ! Hope that doesnt make you feel to :censored: but heyho...... sometimes people have to log off not only Owtb but there general routine in life ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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