dean 1984 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Ive not seen anything to suggest i want him as manager. If i was on a trial period at work (winning no games out of 10 equivalent) and i underperformed so much (the worst run in 10 years at Latics) would i be offered the job at the end? No, i dont care about track records, the past, he can do it etc- what im thinking is what has he done to justify the job? Edited April 24, 2009 by dean 1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Is this not simply a rolling contract? If it works out, he'll stay on and if it doesn't the club don't need to pay him off. That's exactly what my suggestion was back in March Mike, a one year rolling contract suits all parties. Us because we get Joe's experience and mangerial abilities, the fans as Joe has a chance to build the foundations, The owners so they don't have to pay him up if it goes tits up and Joe himself as let's face it at his age he doesn't need to be tioed down to a long term deal and it could even suit a new guy - with Joe's foundations put in and the new guy can build on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I welcomed the news of Joe's second coming and I had a tear in my eye before the Tranmere game, in spite of the hype over the PA system. Before the Orient game I said we would win only one game this season and finish below Walsall. I have seen nothing from Joe to convince me that he is the man for the job. To go seven games without a win, and for two of those to be last minute draws, is an abysmal record for any manager, especially one of Joe's experience. His knowledge of League One is minimal. His team selection, tactics, formations and substitutions can all be questioned. He is obviously embarrassed by the record and desperate for a win. Sure the players have let everyone down, but I expected Joe to produce some better results than Shez but this has not happened. I get criticised for repeating the same point. That's the second time I've stated the above about what we need. It's all about opinions. Ok if not Joe then who? It's easy to criticise, don't forget the team was on it's arse when Joe came in. Joe went at it with purpose weeding out the bad eggs and those that shouldn't have even been here, we're left pretty much with the kids but the damage has been done and the attitudes deep rooted so expect more to be leaving come the summer. I wasn't at Brighton but the second-half apart vs Crewe performances have generally improved under Joe, we're playing football gain but Joe can't take responsibility for the bunch of shot shy tarts we have that in Joe's own words "Do not think goals", Give Joe a deal and we'll see a difference from the first ball in pre-season. The seeds for our current predicament were sown when the reserve team were withdrawn from their league, a cynical cost-cutting measure that has bit Corney on the arse, then he ripped open a massive hole in the camp by openly criticising the manager, top scorer and captain in a public interview. That's when it began to go tits up big style for me. Edited April 24, 2009 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 It's worth remembering, as Joe himself said on his return, he never actually had a contract for longer than a season the last time he was here... He did, Joe's own words in Beckett's books, at least a couple of three year contracts during his last spell. His initial deal in 1982 was for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Ok if Joe who? It's easy to criticise, don't forget the team was on it's arse when Joe came in. Joe went at it with purpose weeding out the bad eggs and those that shouldn't have even been here, we're left pretty much with the kids but the damage has been done and the attitudes deep rooted so expect more to be leaving come the summer. I wasn't at Brighton but the second-half apart vs Crewe performances have generally improved under Joe, we're playing football gain but Joe can't take responsibility for the bunch of shot shy tarts we have that in Joe's own words "Do not think goals", Give Joe a deal and we'll see a difference from the first ball in pre-season. The seeds for our current predicament were sown when the reserve team were withdrawn from their league, a cynical cost-cutting measure that has bit Corney on the arse, then he ripped open a massive hole in the camp by openly criticising the manager, top scorer and captain in a public interview. That's when it began to go tits up big style for me. So Paul. Are you a 'Joe IN!' kinda guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Sure the players have let everyone down, but I expected Joe to produce some better results than Shez but this has not happened. Its a cast iron fact that can not be ignored so I have understanding of Diego's position. Personally I dont know who to blame for the current issues we have... Start of the season we seemed to have a great squad, a decent manager and a board who knew what they where doing... Now to be frank, all three are in question and I find it hard to judge Joe because of the question mark surrounding the other factors... People seem to think getting rid of the manager was the route to sorting all this out...I am not convinced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Its a cast iron fact that can not be ignored so I have understanding of Diego's position. Personally I dont know who to blame for the current issues we have... Start of the season we seemed to have a great squad, a decent manager and a board who knew what they where doing... Now to be frank, all three are in question and I find it hard to judge Joe because of the question mark surrounding the other factors... People seem to think getting rid of the manager was the route to sorting all this out...I am not convinced... I kinda knew we were in for a rough ride this season when my new shirt ran in the wash..................typical Latics, a sense of anticipation as the new shirts arrive, the excitement when wearing it for the first time and then ultimately a real disappointment when you realise it was all piss and wind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 where doing... Now to be frank, all three are in question and I find it hard to judge Joe because of the question mark surrounding the other factors... People seem to think getting rid of the manager was the route to sorting all this out...I am not convinced... I for one thought Shez had took us as far as he could, but even I said it would be daft to get rid during the season and to limp along until the end of the season. It was clear that after the draw at Cheltenham and the subsequent off loading of slap head that the club had given up any hope of promotion, giving creedance to the long held argument in the town that has recently been brought out of it's mothballs that "Latics don't want to get promoted...it'll cost 'em too much to go up! etc, etc.... The argument should be re-worded, especially for the last four seasons or so - it should read, "Latics players have neither the will or desire to gain promotion, preferring the comfort zone and flitting from League One two year deal to League One two year deal. Shez brought in some very good players last summer a few had real points to prove nad they nver really got a chance and that was down to the lack of a reserve team. Unforgivable but he still would have got until May 3rd for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldham Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 joe will sign for twelve months only if there is a decent budget he needs to bring in players because he cannot work with whats at the club ...not good enough. obvious but he will only sign for the year This is true. He will only sign he gets the funds he feels he needs to advance LAtics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I welcomed the news of Joe's second coming and I had a tear in my eye before the Tranmere game, in spite of the hype over the PA system. Before the Orient game I said we would win only one game this season and finish below Walsall. I have seen nothing from Joe to convince me that he is the man for the job. To go seven games without a win, and for two of those to be last minute draws, is an abysmal record for any manager, especially one of Joe's experience. His knowledge of League One is minimal. His team selection, tactics, formations and substitutions can all be questioned. He is obviously embarrassed by the record and desperate for a win. Sure the players have let everyone down, but I expected Joe to produce some better results than Shez but this has not happened. I get criticised for repeating the same point. That's the second time I've stated the above about what we need. It's all about opinions. Fair enough . I disagree with how you have interpreted the situation, but that's not an issue for me. I don't think we could get a better manager for next season , and to judge results when some of the teams have been deliberately experimental (for good reasons) seems to lack objectivity. As I said, I certainly respect you having an opinion , I missed the substance of it when you apparently first posted it. with that in mind , the fairly frequent little jibes confised me! KTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Unforgivable but he still would have got until May 3rd for me. I do agree... I wasn't a shez fan... but I think he should of had more time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 ...(shez) still would have got until May 3rd for me. look at it on the flip side paul. joe has been here nearly 2 months and in that period he has: 1/got rid of players he sees not suitable. 2/assessed the remaining players and has a good idea who will / won't be here next year. 3/started trails for possible arrivals next season. if shez was to have been kept on till next week,then sacked,in theory,we would be 2 months behind to the situation we are in now. joe is planning for next season NOW while the vast majority of clubs and their managers are playing the season out and looking towards a holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) look at it on the flip side paul. joe has been here nearly 2 months and in that period he has: 1/got rid of players he sees not suitable. 2/assessed the remaining players and has a good idea who will / won't be here next year. 3/started trails for possible arrivals next season. if shez was to have been kept on till next week,then sacked,in theory,we would be 2 months behind to the situation we are in now. joe is planning for next season NOW while the vast majority of clubs and their managers are playing the season out and looking towards a holiday. To flip it again... It is possible that we could be looking forward to a summer of play off excitment... But we are where are and I for one am just going to move on now... I agree that Joe has done right since coming regarding clearing the decks... Edited April 24, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 It is possible that we could be looking forward to a summer of play off excitment... I'm going to stick my neck out and say we would not have made the play offs even with Sheridan in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 look at it on the flip side paul. joe has been here nearly 2 months and in that period he has: 1/got rid of players he sees not suitable. 2/assessed the remaining players and has a good idea who will / won't be here next year. 3/started trails for possible arrivals next season. if shez was to have been kept on till next week,then sacked,in theory,we would be 2 months behind to the situation we are in now. joe is planning for next season NOW while the vast majority of clubs and their managers are playing the season out and looking towards a holiday. Yeah I know and I applaud Joe for acting as he has done, BUT we're still none the wiser as to whether JR will be here next season and if another guy comes in who's to say how he would have reacted towards the squad as for trialists good idea but if Joe doesn't sign a deal again the new guy might have his own ideas. The whole sorry mess needs finalising, otherwise we'll still be two months behind Jonny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Yeah I know and I applaud Joe for acting as he has done, BUT we're still none the wiser as to whether JR will be here next season and if another guy comes in who's to say how he would have reacted towards the squad as for trialists good idea but if Joe doesn't sign a deal again the new guy might have his own ideas. The whole sorry mess needs finalising, otherwise we'll still be two months behind Jonny! i'm guessing joe will be here in some capacity..be it manager,general manager,whatever. he's done a lot already ,stamping his mark on things,for him to walk away..thats unless the offer he gets to stay on is just plain lousy for him. i feel he wants to stay..its up to TTA to want him to stay too. To flip it again... It is possible that we could be looking forward to a summer of play off excitment... behave eh!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm going to stick my neck out and say we would not have made the play offs even with Sheridan in charge. We will never know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 We will never know.. Just like you and the White Hart...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I'm going to stick my neck out and say we would not have made the play offs even with Sheridan in charge. It had gone. And if we're wrong, and had gone to Wembley and won .... Shez a hero .... we'd have been relegated by February. My rose-tinted view? Discipline had gone, the manager couldn't get it back and change was essential. Joe's surgical knife appears to be going a lot deeper than any of us realised was necessary and results in the short term have suffered greatly. I still believe with Joe in charge next season things will be much more professional on and off the pitch and the results will follow on from that sort of discipline. Edited April 24, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 We will never know.. Personally, I'm glad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Personally, I'm glad. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 i'm guessing joe will be here in some capacity..be it manager,general manager,whatever. he's done a lot already ,stamping his mark on things,for him to walk away..thats unless the offer he gets to stay on is just plain lousy for him. i feel he wants to stay..its up to TTA to want him to stay too. This is probably a one-off , but I agree with you ! But you are normally wrong - so I must be too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Just like you and the White Hart...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm going to stick my neck out and say we would not have made the play offs even with Sheridan in charge. Hey Zorrro, you've not had to stick it out too far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 This is true. He will only sign he gets the funds he feels he needs to advance LAtics So he wont be staying then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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