Ackey Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 No, not that type. Soccer. Should Latics, as one of only a handful of American Owned teams, be looking to the US college system for players? Much like the tradition set by the NFL/NBA/NHL the MLS is now looking to colleges for their future stars. Kasey Keller and Brad Friedel are notable graduates of the US college system over recent years and are now established at the highest level of the sport. Could OAFC look to Manchester University or Manchester Metropolitan University as partners to provide an effective exchange system for some of the players? Whilst benefiting from these potentially talented players Latics could at the same time provide the youth players at Latics the chance to work with people of a college/university education. It's not suprising to note that most professional athletes in the US are much more inteligent and articulate than their British counterparts, thanks mostly to the college structure and to be surounded by these people can only provide a good example to the young Latics players. Thoughts, opinions, so forth...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loftyboy Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 No, not that type. Soccer. Should Latics, as one of only a handful of American Owned teams, be looking to the US college system for players? Much like the tradition set by the NFL/NBA/NHL the MLS is now looking to colleges for their future stars. Kasey Keller and Brad Friedel are notable graduates of the US college system over recent years and are now established at the highest level of the sport. Could OAFC look to Manchester University or Manchester Metropolitan University as partners to provide an effective exchange system for some of the players? Whilst benefiting from these potentially talented players Latics could at the same time provide the youth players at Latics the chance to work with people of a college/university education. It's not suprising to note that most professional athletes in the US are much more inteligent and articulate than their British counterparts, thanks mostly to the college structure and to be surounded by these people can only provide a good example to the young Latics players. Thoughts, opinions, so forth...? It could work, I think lower league clubs need to start looking at other ways of finding talent. I think Everton were running a series of trials in the US in a sort of "Football Idol" type contest, not sure how that went, but maybe the days of giving journeymen players one last pay cheque to go through the motions could be coming to an end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 No, not that type. Soccer. Should Latics, as one of only a handful of American Owned teams, be looking to the US college system for players? Much like the tradition set by the NFL/NBA/NHL the MLS is now looking to colleges for their future stars. Kasey Keller and Brad Friedel are notable graduates of the US college system over recent years and are now established at the highest level of the sport. Could OAFC look to Manchester University or Manchester Metropolitan University as partners to provide an effective exchange system for some of the players? Whilst benefiting from these potentially talented players Latics could at the same time provide the youth players at Latics the chance to work with people of a college/university education. It's not suprising to note that most professional athletes in the US are much more inteligent and articulate than their British counterparts, thanks mostly to the college structure and to be surounded by these people can only provide a good example to the young Latics players. Thoughts, opinions, so forth...? Possibly worth suggesting this to Alan Hardy or if possible go one further where we may be more likely to see results and go straight to Simon Corney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Will we not already have scouts watching University football? What is the standard of Uni football too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Thoughts, opinions, so forth...? I have for years said that we should have the collegeic system in this country (ask anyone that has been in a car with me). I'm not on about improving Oldham in this (which it won't), but my first team, England. The current system develops team players. Ones that want to play for United, not England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Will we not already have scouts watching University football? What is the standard of Uni football too? You really think Latics can afford scouts to watch the US college game? We can't even scout Ashton properly!! From the admitedly brief reading I've done the standard is acceptable if not outstanding for a team like ours. The advantages as I see them are not so much about getting the next world defining player but more about the idea of developing the club and the standards we set our youth players. Giving the players goals for off the field development as well as on it. This will over time make us more appealing to local talent that we can offer more than others in terms of personal development. On top of this, as someone above points out, we are not going to be paying these lads a million dollars. They will be on less than your average league two journey man and will hopefully be young and eager to learn. I've not thought out all the ins and outs of it, but wanted to get some additional thoughts on it before I raise it with AH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think this is a very good idea, and it helps with the athletes being more intelligent, for example math is used widely in the game, and the players are more likely to understand complex formations and complex moves, someone did a study a while ago and found that players with a good education generally found more space on the field and could out-manouvre an opponent more effectively. its all good having the skill and physique, but knowing what best to do with it would give them the extra dimension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) You really think Latics can afford scouts to watch the US college game? We can't even scout Ashton properly!! Are Manchester University and MMU in the USA now or something? If you are on about scouting America, its pointless. Would not be able to get a work permit for any of the players. Edited July 12, 2009 by dave_ragg1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Are Manchester University and MMU in the USA now or something? If you are on about scouting America, its pointless. Would not be able to get a work permit for any of the players. Christ on a bike, the college football in this country is shocking... you're right about the work permit issue though, something which I am sure would have to be negotiated on. I'd like to think that if we were able to put a package together where it's part of a study process for the player then the work permit could be arranged. If you study in the UK you're entitled to work to earn your way, and so whilst this is a slightly outlandish example I think it could be worked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Christ on a bike, the college football in this country is shocking... you're right about the work permit issue though, something which I am sure would have to be negotiated on. I'd like to think that if we were able to put a package together where it's part of a study process for the player then the work permit could be arranged. If you study in the UK you're entitled to work to earn your way, and so whilst this is a slightly outlandish example I think it could be worked... To be honest, I couldn't see it working. Might be worth a look at but I doubt we would get anyone decent. Anyone who is good will already have MLS (higher standard than league one) in their sights. And I doubt the chances of us actually finding a player good enough would be too low to make it worth the risk financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I played football for Greenwich University. I think it's a non-starter myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Will we not already have scouts watching University football? What is the standard of Uni football too? University teams are generally picked by the Captain rather than a proper coach. It normally leads to a situaiton where it's the captain and his mates in a team together and the standard is similar to the lower semi professional leagues in my experience. I doubt we would find much watching University football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 American Universities people. American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 American Universities people. American. I thought they were always referred to as colleges, or is that something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 I thought they were always referred to as colleges, or is that something different? Nah, college/university is pretty much interchangable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Erm when I was at Durham (which is a Rugby Union/rowing/cricket uni more than football) the Durham uni team had a few players in it who had been dropped from clubs youth set-ups (and the son of a sky sports pundit who's surname rhymes with tamara). Oldham might find one or two good players at Manchester uni firsts but the same players normally play (or have played) for some of the local decent level amateur/semi-pro teams. Its a non-starter really unless the player is really bright they have gone to uni because football hasn't worked out for them. Oldham might be better off scouting the schools as opposed to the unis especially as I would say the standard of uni football isn't that high and some of the local semi-pro or decent amateur teams are better. In the US, considering the ones that do make it only end up playing in MLS which is the same standard as League 1 it seems pointless to have a scout in the States looking at College players. Much better off sending someone to the African nations cup/Gold cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Erm when I was at Durham (which is a Rugby Union/rowing/cricket uni more than football) the Durham uni team had a few players in it who had been dropped from clubs youth set-ups (and the son of a sky sports pundit who's surname rhymes with tamara). Oldham might find one or two good players at Manchester uni firsts but the same players normally play (or have played) for some of the local decent level amateur/semi-pro teams. Its a non-starter really unless the player is really bright they have gone to uni because football hasn't worked out for them. Oldham might be better off scouting the schools as opposed to the unis especially as I would say the standard of uni football isn't that high and some of the local semi-pro or decent amateur teams are better. In the US, considering the ones that do make it only end up playing in MLS which is the same standard as League 1 it seems pointless to have a scout in the States looking at College players. Much better off sending someone to the African nations cup/Gold cup. That's pretty much exactly my point, most players at the uni teams are just ex YTS's or players who have been at a school of excellenec at some point in time, doesn't necessarilly mean they are that good. Most semi pro sides in my experience are at least to the level of the uni sides so I canj't see what would be to gain from sending scouts to their games. Also like I say, most of the uni sides are picked by whoever the captain happens to be, which very rarely ends in the best players actually playing, there may be the odd very good player at universities around the country, but whether they get their chance is one thing and whether they are willing to take the huge gamble of going pro and dropping the degree is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Aren't our owners actually English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I think the idea of scouting the American collegiate system is a good one in principle, but might not work for reason not yet given. You quite often read about players of variosu sports that go there on a scholarship, so they are funded academically, as well as for the sport-whatever it is. So in effect they are being paid ad ecent wage to study sport with a bit of academia thrown in, which is the opposite of what was intened. We'd have to pay anyone coming over here a decent wage for them to be able to afford it. Not sure where everyone is getting the idea to scout English University sides from, Ackey never meant that, that is just a bunch of drunakrds! apart form possibly Bath and Loughborough Edited July 13, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 That's pretty much exactly my point, most players at the uni teams are just ex YTS's or players who have been at a school of excellenec at some point in time, doesn't necessarilly mean they are that good. Most semi pro sides in my experience are at least to the level of the uni sides so I canj't see what would be to gain from sending scouts to their games. Also like I say, most of the uni sides are picked by whoever the captain happens to be, which very rarely ends in the best players actually playing, there may be the odd very good player at universities around the country, but whether they get their chance is one thing and whether they are willing to take the huge gamble of going pro and dropping the degree is another. Exactly. I playeed for the UNI firsts (as a goalkeeper - before anyone pipes up who has seen me play outfield for the OWTB team ) and I have to say there were far better players at UNI banging about the inter-mural leagues who wouldnt dream of playing for the UNI teams, as they are disorganised, Cliquey and generally not taken seriously.... the footie teams didnt generally even have the booze culture the Hockey and Rugby teams had.... Also.. in regard to the americal college system, i've always been dubious of the standard. As has been said here, there best will all have been earmarked for the MLS ages ago (i'd assume they have a draft like all the other sports where the ebst will be picked up?) and i'd imagine there is a big gap to the rest... also, I knew 4 people who all got scholarships to go to some pretty hot American Uni's to play football after they had finished degrees in england. They were goot players but not that good... as is said above, they were all ex-youth players at clubs who just decided to go over there as a bit of a jolly after UK uni... Think its a good discussion... but the costs/return would be massive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) American Universities people. American. Good thoughts, but a non-starter due to all kinds of reasons, most of which have already been mentioned. To which I'd like to add that aswell as the 'big' premiership teams, Burnley have had a relationship with a couple of American clubs for the last few years (they are heading out there on pre-season again). they are building these relationship because that is how play recruitment from US will work. If such a scheme (college recruitment) was a goer it is certainly something they would be looking at, along with all the other premiership clubs. They aren't, not because it hasn't been thought of, but because it just isn't an option. On a different note, I was approached last year by a Brazilian businessman/agent looking to set up a deal with some young brazilian players from outside the main cities in Brazil who tend to get missed (due to geographic reasons) by the bigger clubs in Brazil coming over to english clubs for trials etc. Sounded good in principle - bit messy when it comes to the third-party ownership stuff. ps. Also, I think there is plenty of decent talent in the local area/non-league that should be a bigger priority. Plus the FA should look at the rules when it comes to developing young players and give the smaller clubs the incentive/funding to develop english youngsters with a nationally designed programme ensuring standards are top at all clubs - gives england the best chance in the future. Leave the big premiership clubs to get on with their own thing. Edited July 13, 2009 by lookers87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Good thoughts, but a non-starter due to all kinds of reasons, I'd go along with that too. We should be focusing on getting the local scouting sorted before embarking on a US network. A number of us have suggested local players from sides such as Ashton, Droylsden & Staylvegas in the past, non of which have been brought in for trials. We're within range; milage wise, to pop over the hills too without getting into bother for geographical poaching - Huddersfiled, Halifax area non-league sides. A Sorting of the local scouting is needed first before any pipe dreams of the USA happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 It's not suprising to note that most professional athletes in the US are much more inteligent and articulate than their British counterparts, thanks mostly to the college structure and to be surounded by these people can only provide a good example to the young Latics players. I think this is a very good idea, and it helps with the athletes being more intelligent, for example math is used widely in the game, and the players are more likely to understand complex formations and complex moves, someone did a study a while ago and found that players with a good education generally found more space on the field and could out-manouvre an opponent more effectively. its all good having the skill and physique, but knowing what best to do with it would give them the extra dimension I'm not sure I believe either of these. How many steroid-powered NFL meatheads would you have as a phone a friend on Millionaire? If you are 24 stone and can cover 30 yards in 5 seconds they will help you through your exams. I tend to find US athletes (as in real ones, not using the word to cover general sportsment) especially thick and good for nowt but running quickly and delivering cliches. As for the other point, I would back myself against Gazza in most mental aptitude tests, but I think he has better vision than me on the football pitch. I don't remember more academic kids in school being better at sport than the less academic ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm not sure I believe either of these. How many steroid-powered NFL meatheads would you have as a phone a friend on Millionaire? If you are 24 stone and can cover 30 yards in 5 seconds they will help you through your exams. I tend to find US athletes (as in real ones, not using the word to cover general sportsment) especially thick and good for nowt but running quickly and delivering cliches. As for the other point, I would back myself against Gazza in most mental aptitude tests, but I think he has better vision than me on the football pitch. I don't remember more academic kids in school being better at sport than the less academic ones? Put your average American sportsperson in a basic literacy and public speaking test against the average UK sportsperson and I'd back the Yank. The Ruggers elite and Cricket bods would bring our average up that's for sure, but I'd still back the Yank, certainly against a footballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Put your average American sportsperson in a basic literacy and public speaking test against the average UK sportsperson and I'd back the Yank. The Ruggers elite and Cricket bods would bring our average up that's for sure, but I'd still back the Yank, certainly against a footballer. Erm, Well you know at the end of the day, Basically I talk at the end of the day about a game that erm isn't at the end of the day but is basically erm, 11 men running round kicking a ball at the end of the day. Versus. I'm a reformed gangsta and if I wasn't have caps shot at my ass I was running for my ass. American students who are good at sport pass High School (which isn't the equivalent of our a-levels) by being good at sports. The really good ones get a degree in some phony subject which makes media studies look like Rocket Science when really they would struggle to pass the 11+ but those are the ones who don't need a degree. There are some exceptions- Shaka Hislop and Ian Dowie v some bright Yank. But in reality Rugby and Cricketers (and the Rugby ones not as much- its much more a straight from school sport than uni now) are streets ahead of American pro sportsmen in general. (In fact I bet you could have a decent Rugby team made from people entitled to call themselves Dr. but that was 10/15 years ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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