manshaw Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 but if we do sack him, oldham will struggle to get money for the new manager to spend on new players because we used it to pay off the managment team we have now. i dont understand why we have to pay him off. If I was failing to do the job i was paid for, i wouldnt be paid compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Just how is Ritchie's record superior to Penney's??? Ritchie's been sacked by how many clubs? You should look at the then Huddersfield chairmans comments when he got rid after we'd stuffed them at BP. Along the lines of he's never had a manager who was so inept at motivating a group of players and he had no choice but to sack him. Sounds like just the man we need here right now. Sacking Penney after half a season would be crazy but sacking him just cos you want Ritchie back is beyond belief. It makes me wonder if you actually support the club or Ritchie personally..I just cant take people like you seriously at all. Firstly, I never said sack Penney to get him back. But to be fair to you I would, today. To answer your question, his record is better in most ways. Records from memory... AR record... Unjustly sacked by Moore after good service with no resources and then not long after being top with resources. Novice manager at the time. Unjustly sacked by Barnsley after a promotion to The Championship with reluctance to spend on new players cited. Sounds right up our 'Low Budget Street'. Also sounds good to those of us who believe in forming a team to settle and grow together. Fairly sacked by Huddersfield, :censored: happens. As for his signings, he managed to sign Eyres and Shez. Good performers and entertainers. Check out DP's signings.... Your dressing room comments are irrelevant. DP record.. Non-league and League 2 success with Donny thanks to bankrolling, a la Talbot at R&D. Failed in league 1 despite further strong backing. Moderate success at Darlington, again in league 2 with decent money. He had Pawel Abbott for crying out loud. Jumped ship. Absolute total failure at Latics so far, the biggest club he has managed (and incidentally probably the smallest AR has). Finally, maybe you could address my 'crucial' point from the post you replied to before sounding off about how you cant stand me and asking rhetorical questionns which dont support your argument. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Secondly, and for more than the second time, what's so 'blue tinted' about Andy Ritchie? His managerial CV is SUPERIOR to Dave Penney's Penney's two promotions to Stitches one. Penney has a stronger win ratio. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Penney's two promotions to Stitches one. Penney has a stronger win ratio. Hmm. And that's the bottom line - circumstances are surely irrelevant..... Andy Ritchie managed in the Championship after being promoted from league 1 but was eventually sacked. DP managed the same feat but a whole division lower. You see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 FFS, again? Yes again, because nobody has satisfactorily answered the question FFS, again? Firstly, but not for the first time, where the money comes from is not our business. Besides, if we have gotten ourselves into a position where we absolutely can't afford to sack a badly underperforming manager then the club is run by a bunch of morons. That is not answering my initial question. If the board do cave in and sack penney, the only place I can see the money coming from is next seasons playing budget, which I imagine will be lower regardless because of the drop in attendances this season. Secondly, and for more than the second time, what's so 'blue tinted' about Andy Ritchie? His managerial CV is SUPERIOR to Dave Penney's - despite this most people on here were licking Penney's arse when he was appointed, as if he was some sort of lower league Mourinho. Crucially, Stitch would help repair the relationship between the fans and the club more than anybody which, in my opinion, is the single biggest problem we have a the momet (bar the missing Lookers, which is a a related issue). 'Blue tinted' is the way forward.... Promotions on Penneys CV = 2 Promotions on Ritchies CV = 1 Playoff place finish on Penneys CV = 1 Playoff place finish on Ritchie's CV = 1 Sackings on Penneys CV = 0 Sackings on Ritchie's CV = 3 The only thing Ritchie had on his CV over Penney is that he has won promotion with a team out of this division. Half of the problem with our fans is that they can't look past the blue tinted vision, and they always look to someone from the clubs history when things go horribly wrong as opposed to the best man for the job from those available. Whilst I agree Stitch may repair some of the damage between the fans and the club, I do not think he will keep us in this division with this group of players. If he was such a good manager though, why has he been without a club for approaching 18 months, and why was he overlooked for jobs such as the grimsby town job?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 And that's the bottom line - circumstances are surely irrelevant..... Andy Ritchie managed in the Championship after being promoted from league 1 but was eventually sacked. DP managed the same feat but a whole division lower. You see? Ok, I'll reiterate without adding a patronising slant like yourself. Stitch was my favourite Latics player of all time, and I feel he succeeded to a degree here as a manager. Took a season or two at barnsley to straighten them out and then promotion (via the play-offs by the way, finishing 5th). Didn't pull up too many trees in the Championship, upset someone and left (Official line: refusing to spend the budget given... pfft!). Joined Huddersfield and failed to achieve much (other than the odd cup shock) despite given a healthy budget. In summary then, I don't think he's been a humongous success manager wise, decent though. Since leaving Udders, well over a year ago there's been plenty of jobs up for grabs, but not taken any. He either doesn't fancy jobs, or his CV doesn't quite stack up as well as you're making it. Penney, as well as two promotions has led darlo to a play-off campaign, and owuld be another had it not been for the admin fiasco last term. I thought he had a decent track record myself, as did plenty of Tics and worthy of a crack at the job. Not managed in the Championship? I don't think managing for 3 months before getting the hoof when you're hovering round thye drop zone is any better myself. Returning hero coming in to take the glory and lead us to safety and beyond? I don't see this as a fix in any way, shape or form. The tenure of Joe Royle last season should be reminded. Had we not been in a healthy position in the table anyway we'd have been relegated. Penney gets to the end of the season for me. Take it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think people forget the maons on JKL about Stich's lack of tactics adn absolutely boring play. And he did get some bufget, and some good players towards the end. But he was no worse or better than Shez, in my opinion. We flattered to deceive on occaisons, but at the end of the day could not make it count at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Kingsley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 FFS, again? Firstly, but not for the first time, where the money comes from is not our business. Besides, if we have gotten ourselves into a position where we absolutely can't afford to sack a badly underperforming manager then the club is run by a bunch of morons. Secondly, and for more than the second time, what's so 'blue tinted' about Andy Ritchie? His managerial CV is SUPERIOR to Dave Penney's - despite this most people on here were licking Penney's arse when he was appointed, as if he was some sort of lower league Mourinho. Crucially, Stitch would help repair the relationship between the fans and the club more than anybody which, in my opinion, is the single biggest problem we have a the momet (bar the missing Lookers, which is a a related issue). 'Blue tinted' is the way forward.... Stitch, to answer your 'crucial coment' I think the single biggest problem we have is the lack of interest shown by the owners and their apparent desire to run the club into the ground. (Bringing Ritchie back would just be a PR exercise cos it certainly wouldn't be on the basis he's the best man available.), That and people like yourself who want to change the manager after half a season are the problems. You contradict yourself as well, 'Also sounds good to those of us who believe in forming a team to settle and grow together.' Doesn't that apply to Penney's team then? Also I don't see how my comment that the guy can't motivate players are irrelevant, that's a pretty major part of the job I'd say, but hey,the guy was a legend here as a player so that makes his inadequacies as a manager ok doesn't it? Finally Stitch where did I say I can't stand you? I just said I can't take you seriously at all and your last post just confirms that even more. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yes again, because nobody has satisfactorily answered the question That is not answering my initial question. If the board do cave in and sack penney, the only place I can see the money coming from is next seasons playing budget, which I imagine will be lower regardless because of the drop in attendances this season. Apologies for not quite answering the question you meant to ask. You see once again it was worded in a rhetorical manner, as if to suggest that sacking him is not an option because the money simply isn't there. Now that you have made yourself clear, only via attempting to answer it yourself, I shall answer the question you meant to ask. I feel that the money could quite concievably come from the attendences returning to pre Boring Dave levels. Just 1000 extra could equate to £20,000 per game. An extra 2000 under Stitch (so 5500) would hardly be daydreaming. Has it escaped your attention that DP is currently massacring next seasons playing budget? As for what I didn't quote...............circumstances. Stats can paint any picture. And least Stitch has succeeded in THIS divsion. Penney is failing (again). Ok, I'll reiterate without adding a patronising slant like yourself. Stitch was my favourite Latics player of all time, and I feel he succeeded to a degree here as a manager. Took a season or two at barnsley to straighten them out and then promotion (via the play-offs by the way, finishing 5th). Didn't pull up too many trees in the Championship, upset someone and left (Official line: refusing to spend the budget given... pfft!). Joined Huddersfield and failed to achieve much (other than the odd cup shock) despite given a healthy budget. In summary then, I don't think he's been a humongous success manager wise, decent though. Since leaving Udders, well over a year ago there's been plenty of jobs up for grabs, but not taken any. He either doesn't fancy jobs, or his CV doesn't quite stack up as well as you're making it. Penney, as well as two promotions has led darlo to a play-off campaign, and owuld be another had it not been for the admin fiasco last term. I thought he had a decent track record myself, as did plenty of Tics and worthy of a crack at the job. Not managed in the Championship? I don't think managing for 3 months before getting the hoof when you're hovering round thye drop zone is any better myself. Returning hero coming in to take the glory and lead us to safety and beyond? I don't see this as a fix in any way, shape or form. The tenure of Joe Royle last season should be reminded. Had we not been in a healthy position in the table anyway we'd have been relegated. Penney gets to the end of the season for me. Take it from there. The patronising tone was born out of you ending your post with "hmm", you patronising sod. Some fair comments otherwise. Fact remains that ALL DP's success has been when he has enjoyed a large budget. You don't think AR could match his 'achievements' given his circumstances? For the record, my Championship comment was tongue in cheek, illustrating that simple facts/stats can paint pretty much whatever picture you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If Penney went, the obvious replacement in my opinion would be Peter Taylor (unless Nots County appoint him before then). In terms of promotions he has achieved - 1 Promotion with Gillingham (this league to the championship) - 1 Promotion with Brighton (this league to the championship) - 2 with Hull (League 2 to the championship) - 1 promotion with Wycombe (league 2 to league 1) He has also managed at premiership and international level, and to top it off, had a loan spell here in the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If Penney went, the obvious replacement in my opinion would be Peter Taylor (unless Nots County appoint him before then). In terms of promotions he has achieved - 1 Promotion with Gillingham (this league to the championship) - 1 Promotion with Brighton (this league to the championship) - 2 with Hull (League 2 to the championship) - 1 promotion with Wycombe (league 2 to league 1) He has also managed at premiership and international level, and to top it off, had a loan spell here in the 80's. With a :censored: CV like that he probably only wants five-bob and a free pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 With a :censored: CV like that he probably only wants five-bob and a free pie. Probably beats the four bob and a free pie he was on at wycombe Dont think he would come here anyway unles he was willing to manage on a budget, which is what caused him to resign from Brighton apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Stitch, to answer your 'crucial coment' I think the single biggest problem we have is the lack of interest shown by the owners and their apparent desire to run the club into the ground. (Bringing Ritchie back would just be a PR exercise cos it certainly wouldn't be on the basis he's the best man available.), That and people like yourself who want to change the manager after half a season are the problems. You contradict yourself as well, 'Also sounds good to those of us who believe in forming a team to settle and grow together.' Doesn't that apply to Penney's team then? Also I don't see how my comment that the guy can't motivate players are irrelevant, that's a pretty major part of the job I'd say, but hey,the guy was a legend here as a player so that makes his inadequacies as a manager ok doesn't it? Finally Stitch where did I say I can't stand you? I just said I can't take you seriously at all and your last post just confirms that even more. Cheers It was a crucial point, not a "coment", whatever one of those is. I appreciate you're new to the board, so just to fill you in I'm all for giving managers time, when they show promise and earn it. I shouted loudest about keeping Shez and would have kept Ronnie before him. Talbot? No way, no promise, stop the rot. Penney? Likewise. I didn't contradict myself, the contradiction is purely based on your assumption that I would let any old team settle and grow together. Much like my sentiments regarding doing the same for a manager it is dependant on the degree of promise being shown. I'd say Barnsley's promotion showed promise, certainly more than our record this term, with our 3/4 man team of veterans. Your comments were irrelevant because they are unsubstantiated and the opinion of one unnamed individual. Furthermore, the fact AR has since won promotion from the division means it cant be such a big issue. It's a results business, Hank. Finally, welcome to the board. I'm sure you'll soon get better at this lark having shown a little promise. Ciao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If Penney went, the obvious replacement in my opinion would be Peter Taylor (unless Nots County appoint him before then). In terms of promotions he has achieved - 1 Promotion with Gillingham (this league to the championship) - 1 Promotion with Brighton (this league to the championship) - 2 with Hull (League 2 to the championship) - 1 promotion with Wycombe (league 2 to league 1) He has also managed at premiership and international level, and to top it off, had a loan spell here in the 80's. HA Ha I like your style. Lies, Lies and damn sataistics A career path that any Winter Olympian would be proud of 1986–1990 Dartford 1993–1995 Southend United 1995–1996 Dover Athletic 1996–1999 England U21 1999–2000 Gillingham 2000–2001 Leicester City 2000 England (caretaker) 2001–2002 Brighton & Hove Albion 2002–2006 Hull City 2004–2007 England U21 2006–2007 Crystal Palace 2007–2008 Stevenage Borough 2008–2009 Wycombe Wanderers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 HA Ha I like your style. Lies, Lies and damn sataistics A career path that any Winter Olympian would be proud of 1986–1990 Dartford 1993–1995 Southend United 1995–1996 Dover Athletic 1996–1999 England U21 1999–2000 Gillingham 2000–2001 Leicester City 2000 England (caretaker) 2001–2002 Brighton & Hove Albion 2002–2006 Hull City 2004–2007 England U21 2006–2007 Crystal Palace 2007–2008 Stevenage Borough 2008–2009 Wycombe Wanderers I am not saying for a minute he would be perfect, but I think he is the best available candidate we have any hope of attracting should DP be sacked, which I still don't think will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 We could appoint Joey Deacon at the minute and it wouldn't matter. He would only get about 6 weeks before people were calling for his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Kingsley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) OMG Stitch!!!!.... Woww, how patronising are you!! So just cos I'm new to this board means my views are worth less than your does it? And as for the smartass 'coment' remark it's much like the 'questionns' (what's a questionn?) word in your previous post, as in, "Finally, maybe you could address my 'crucial' point from the post you replied to before sounding off about how you cant stand me and asking rhetorical questionns which dont support your argument." I didn't bother pointing it out at the time as it was an obvious typo, but hey I can be as arsey as you obviously are when the need arises, Like you say mate I'm new to this 'lark' being only my 5th post and all so I'm sure I will get better in time. I see you've already posted almost three and a half thousand times, hopefully it won't take me as many as that to post something sensible, still I'm sure you'l get there eventually God loves a trier Edited February 10, 2010 by Hank Kingsley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 We could appoint Joey Deacon at the minute and it wouldn't matter. He would only get about 6 weeks before people were calling for his head. Anyone can see we need an attacking midfielder, and all he does is bang on about his shoe falling off into a river when he was a kid. And why do we need to employ 3 of his mates just to help him with press releases when we should be spending it on the playing side. Deacon out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 OMG Stitch!!!!.... Woww, how patronising are you!! So just cos I'm new to this board means my views are worth less than your does it? And as for the smartass 'coment' remark it's much like the 'questionns' (what's a questionn?) word in your previous post, as in, "Finally, maybe you could address my 'crucial' point from the post you replied to before sounding off about how you cant stand me and asking rhetorical questionns which dont support your argument." I didn't bother pointing it out at the time as it was an obvious typo, but hey I can be as arsey as you obviously are when the need arises, No, it doesn't. What ever gave you that idea? And if you think I'm patronising wait until Corporal Jones/GeorgeHarveyBone gets hold of you, you Nodding Dog. Like you say mate I'm new to this 'lark' being only my 5th post and all so I'm sure I will get better in time. I see you've already posted almost three and a half thousand times, hopefully it won't take me as many as that to post something sensible, still I'm sure you'l get there eventually God loves a trier There's a common saying bandied about on these here boards. It's something about those who turn to petty jibes/insults indicating they are struggling to continue a debate, you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Kingsley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 No, it doesn't. What ever gave you that idea? And if you think I'm patronising wait until Corporal Jones/GeorgeHarveyBone gets hold of you, you Nodding Dog. There's a common saying bandied about on these here boards. It's something about those who turn to petty jibes/insults indicating they are struggling to continue a debate, you "No, it doesn't. What ever gave you that idea?" Just cos you bothered to mention it twice in your last posting, errr... and it was you that started the petty jibes with your 'coment' quip. If you pick everyone up who makes a typo then you'll be a pretty busy guy on here. Now I know why you've posted as many times as you have though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 "No, it doesn't. What ever gave you that idea?" Just cos you bothered to mention it twice in your last posting, errr... and it was you that started the petty jibes with your 'coment' quip. If you pick everyone up who makes a typo then you'll be a pretty busy guy on here. Now I know why you've posted as many times as you have though!!! I only highlighted the comment typo in conjunction with correcting your misquote. I knew it was a typo - your English is clearly more than adequate. However, you do appear to have a habit of making false assumptions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hank vs Stitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hank vs Stitch Anyone would think I'd been on the City forum saying Andy Ritchie's your man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Anyone would think I'd been on the City forum saying Andy Ritchie's your man. You know better than to have an opinion on here Stitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hank vs Stitch Not bad, but not PPV. Let's see who we can get on the undercard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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