PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Don't forget everybody that May 20th is "Draw Mohammed Day". Exercise your artistic talents and support freedom of speech. We will not be intimidated into self censorship. Pakistani court orders Facebook blocked in prophet row Everybody Draw Mohammed Day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Grow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 soon there will be nothing to ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Grow up Why? Because I care about free speech? Try not to be so judgmental and have a look at what this is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) I'm not intimidated - but being a civilised kinda guy, I won't be drawing Mohamed any more than I will be asserting my freedom of expression by telling holocaust jokes and the like. It's all about mutual respect. You earn it by giving it. Edited May 20, 2010 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) Why? Because I care about free speech? Try not to be so judgmental and have a look at what this is about. You are exercising your "freedom of speech" by "drawing" a picture which you know will probably cause great offence to many people ? Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 I'm not intimidated - but being a civilised kinda guy, I won't be drawing Mohamed any more than I will be asserting my freedom of expression by telling holocaust jokes and the like. It's all about mutual respect. You earn it by giving it. That's fine. But there are people in the world who feel they have the right to be violent over people exercising their freedom of expression. And I respect noone who seeks to threaten myself or others over words or cartoons. This day is a solidarity statement to the likes of Theo Van Gogh, and the countless others who live under the threat of extremist violence because they dared to publish a book or make a film or draw a cartoon depicting the prophet mohammmed or blaspheming their precious religion. I agree that there should be mutual respect. But the truth is that we live in a society where all you have to do is to threaten violence and media outlets will censor themselves in fear. The extremists do not respect us, and won't ever until we show them they cannot force us to puss out all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 But the truth is that we live in a society where all you have to do is to threaten violence and media outlets will censor themselves in fear. Rubbish... The vast majority of our society is passive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 That's fine. But there are people in the world who feel they have the right to be violent over people exercising their freedom of expression. And I respect noone who seeks to threaten myself or others over words or cartoons. This day is a solidarity statement to the likes of Theo Van Gogh, and the countless others who live under the threat of extremist violence because they dared to publish a book or make a film or draw a cartoon depicting the prophet mohammmed or blaspheming their precious religion. I agree that there should be mutual respect. But the truth is that we live in a society where all you have to do is to threaten violence and media outlets will censor themselves in fear. The extremists do not respect us, and won't ever until we show them they cannot force us to puss out all the time. All you need is confidence in your convictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Rubbish... The vast majority of our society is passive... How does that in any way contractict what I just said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have looked and it says: "We simply want to show the extremists that threaten to harm people because of their Mohammed depictions, that we're not afraid of them. That they can't take away our right to freedom of speech by trying to scare us to silence." So to have a go at the extremists, you don't mind offending the entire muslim world. Yes how very grown up indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 How does that in any way contractict what I just said? You are trying to push this idea that we should all start drawing offensive images in some sort of imaginary battle against an attack upon our civil liberties... Its just rubbish man... Go have a smoke and chill out... The world ain't out to get ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have looked and it says: "We simply want to show the extremists that threaten to harm people because of their Mohammed depictions, that we're not afraid of them. That they can't take away our right to freedom of speech by trying to scare us to silence." So to have a go at the extremists, you don't mind offending the entire muslim world. Yes how very grown up indeed. Exactly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 You are trying to push this idea that we should all start drawing offensive images in some sort of imaginary battle against an attack upon our civil liberties... Its just rubbish man... Go have a smoke and chill out... The world ain't out to get ya They don't have to be offensive in a 'general' sense though. They can simply be of a person (or teddy bear) who you refer to as the Prophet Mohammed. For this to be offensive you have to believe in a dogmatic religion and if my passive actions (I'm not forcing anyone to view an image) offend you because of a naive belief in religion then I really don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 They don't have to be offensive in a 'general' sense though. They can simply be of a person (or teddy bear) who you refer to as the Prophet Mohammed. For this to be offensive you have to believe in a dogmatic religion and if my passive actions (I'm not forcing anyone to view an image) offend you because of a naive belief in religion then I really don't care. My argument is, to push the idea to protect the "freedom of speech" rights in this country you need to rush out and offend most of the muslim world, is short sighted, moronic and totally fool hardy... and makes you something of an extremist by the very definition of the word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 My argument is, to push the idea to protect the "freedom of speech" rights in this country you need to rush out and offend most of the muslim world, is short sighted, moronic and totally fool hardy... and makes you something of an extremist by the very definition of the word... I consider myself a "passionate atheist" - what I oppose, more than anything else, is the use of Religiousness as a defensive argument - to justify oppression of expression, amongst other things. It is only offensive to Mulims to show the image of Muhammed due to their naive belief in an ancient book(s)... if that's why I'm offending you then I honestly don't care. That may be an extreme view but that's how it is from me. I have a right to draw Muhammed just as you have a right to read your Bible or Koran, or to wear a cross around your neck or a Burqa on your head. In this instance it's a public gathering, in a modern/virtual world - we, as atheists, have as much right to that gathering as a religious person does to a Church/Mosque/House of worship... and we don't get a crap load of Governmental funding/subsidising/tax breaks for it either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have looked and it says: "We simply want to show the extremists that threaten to harm people because of their Mohammed depictions, that we're not afraid of them. That they can't take away our right to freedom of speech by trying to scare us to silence." So to have a go at the extremists, you don't mind offending the entire muslim world. Yes how very grown up indeed. FFS. We ARE having a go at the extremists. It is the extremists who are crying about such things. The violent ones take things into their own hands. The majority of muslims aren't going to give a crap if we are drawing a picture and labelling it mohammed. It would be beneath them to worry about it. As it should be. What this movement is doing is standing by the makers of South Park, Salmon Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and the Danish Cartoonists Ali etc etc and showing them that there are those among us who will not chicken out when the nutters come with bombs and knives. We stand by our convictions. And those convictions include the right to free expression. You seem to be scared of "offending" people. But at the end of the day offence is all about the subjective victim mentality that plagues the western world. People who complain about offence are nothing but whiney cry babies. I will give respect where it is due. Not where such utter disregard for civilised decency is flaunted so maliciously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) I consider myself a "passionate atheist" - what I oppose, more than anything else, is the use of Religiousness as a defensive argument - to justify oppression of expression, amongst other things. It is only offensive to Mulims to show the image of Muhammed due to their naive belief in an ancient book(s)... if that's why I'm offending you then I honestly don't care. That may be an extreme view but that's how it is from me. I have a right to draw Muhammed just as you have a right to read your Bible or Koran, or to wear a cross around your neck or a Burqa on your head. In this instance it's a public gathering, in a modern/virtual world - we, as atheists, have as much right to that gathering as a religious person does to a Church/Mosque/House of worship... and we don't get a crap load of Governmental funding/subsidising/tax breaks for it either! His argument wasn't to push atheist ideas... His argument was not to criticise "religion"... His point was regarding "freedom of speech" and censorship... You are missing the points and trying to turn this argument down a different path... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) FFS. We ARE having a go at the extremists. It is the extremists who are crying about such things. The violent ones take things into their own hands. The majority of muslims aren't going to give a crap if we are drawing a picture and labelling it mohammed. It would be beneath them to worry about it. As it should be. What this movement is doing is standing by the makers of South Park, Salmon Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and the Danish Cartoonists Ali etc etc and showing them that there are those among us who will not chicken out when the nutters come with bombs and knives. We stand by our convictions. And those convictions include the right to free expression. You seem to be scared of "offending" people. But at the end of the day offence is all about the subjective victim mentality that plagues the western world. People who complain about offence are nothing but whiney cry babies. I will give respect where it is due. Not where such utter disregard for civilised decency is flaunted so maliciously. Who is we ? You sound like a moron from the EDL... I have the freedom of speech to say that... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 His argument wasn't to push atheist ideas... His argument was not to criticise "religion"... His point was regarding "freedom of speech" and censorship... You are missing the points and trying to turn this argument down a different path... The rights of an Atheist to publicly criticise any religion are constantly censored on the foundation that they are offensive or blasphemous. That is a 'freedom of speech' argument and relates back to the point that as long as you have a historical foundation you can call a religion then you and your opinions are defensible without a due thought-process. I use 'you' loosely - I'm not addressing you specifically, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I consider myself a "passionate atheist" - what I oppose, more than anything else, is the use of Religiousness as a defensive argument - to justify oppression of expression, amongst other things. It is only offensive to Mulims to show the image of Muhammed due to their naive belief in an ancient book(s)... if that's why I'm offending you then I honestly don't care. That may be an extreme view but that's how it is from me. I have a right to draw Muhammed just as you have a right to read your Bible or Koran, or to wear a cross around your neck or a Burqa on your head. In this instance it's a public gathering, in a modern/virtual world - we, as atheists, have as much right to that gathering as a religious person does to a Church/Mosque/House of worship... and we don't get a crap load of Governmental funding/subsidising/tax breaks for it either! OOTB likes this. I pray for the day us atheists are taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Who is we ? You sound like a moron from the EDL... I have the freedom of speech to say that... Indeed you do. However, if all you've got is baseless ad hominem attacks then you lose this argument. Go cower under a bush somewhere. There are those of us who are prepard to stand up to bullies. (you know, the ones you claim don't exist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Indeed you do. However, if all you've got is baseless ad hominem attacks then you lose this argument. Go cower under a bush somewhere. There are those of us who are prepard to stand up to bullies. (you know, the ones you claim don't exist) For the record at this point I'd just like to say that Christianity is just as bad, just in case you're from the other side of the fence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 OOTB likes this. I pray for the day us atheists are taken seriously. This isn't about atheism though. Whether you believe in any gods or not doesn't matter. It's about defending your rights as free citizens of a western democracy. And not giving them up for threats of violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) The rights of an Atheist to publicly criticise any religion are constantly censored on the foundation that they are offensive or blasphemous. That is a 'freedom of speech' argument and relates back to the point that as long as you have a historical foundation you can call a religion then you and your opinions are defensible without a due thought-process. I use 'you' loosely - I'm not addressing you specifically, obviously. You putting up a reasoned argument against religion is your right to freedom of speech... No one would seek to take that away from you... His attempt at setting out to cause nothing but offence to millions of people in some lame attempt at saying are right to freedom of speech seems to me to be highly questionable... Get in bed with him if you want Ackey... The freedom of speech is not and never was intended to be a platform to seek to cause offence... If you opinion results in offence that is one thing... But to seek it from the outset says a lot... You start to get into the relm of other laws regarding religious hatred, libel and such like... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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