Everybody Draw Mohammed Day

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Do you realise aggression comes in many forms ? Fists, kicks, words, drawings... Can all assert aggression...

According to your own logic, calling me a bigot falls under the banner of asserting aggression with words. I guess that makes you a bigot in return.

 

But the truth is that words and drawing are not aggressive unless they themselves threaten violence. To be truly aggressive you must either be violent, or be threatening violence.

You are happy to assert aggression onto muslims through your insulting drawings. It is an aggressive attack upon their culture and beliefs. You are knowingly doing something to offend and enrage them.

No. They are CHOOSING to take it personally. There is no aggression intended by the vast majority of those who took part in this show of solidarity. And that includes myself.

 

And lets just remind you that calling me a bigot is offensive to me. You know this and yet you continue to do so. Does this make you a bigot?

The only reason for aggression is to oppress... It's what idiots do when they lose the mental battle and self control.

Again. Who's being aggressive? The people standing up to the men who want to impose their superstitions on us (by drawing a cartoon), or those who seek to impose their superstitions with violence.

Like I said, you have become the very thing you say you are fighting for

:nnnng: I am fighting against people who think violence is the answer to being "offended". So who have I threatened to kill lately?

Just another extremist looking to impose their idea of what is right and proper upon the world.

I am imposing nothing by drawing a cartoon, writing a book or making a film.

You are certainly irrational... and how you could every suggested that you are not obstant is beyond me

What a surprise that the person who disagrees with me so venomously thinks i'm irrational and stubborn.

You are hostile towards religion. You are quite happy to offend and totally disregard the thoughts and feelings of billions of people. That is very hostile approach.

It has got NOTHING to do with religion. It happens to involve religiously motivated people. I would be just as pissed off if it was a people with a political dogma or any other ideology that was trying to pull this crap.

Personally I never have felt the need to draw a picture of Mo... why would i? You on the other hand are going out of your way to do so... Sounds hostile to me...

I've told you, I'm hostile to oppressive behaviour and nothing else. But it sounds like you would sense hostility from a falling leef.

[oafc0000]

According to your own logic, calling me a bigot falls under the banner of asserting aggression with words. I guess that makes you a bigot in return.

 

But the truth is that words and drawing are not aggressive unless they themselves threaten violence. To be truly aggressive you must either be violent, or be threatening violence.

 

No. They are CHOOSING to take it personally. There is no aggression intended by the vast majority of those who took part in this show of solidarity. And that includes myself.

 

And lets just remind you that calling me a bigot is offensive to me. You know this and yet you continue to do so. Does this make you a bigot?

 

Again. Who's being aggressive? The people standing up to the men who want to impose their superstitions on us (by drawing a cartoon), or those who seek to impose their superstitions with violence.

 

:nnnng: I am fighting against people who think violence is the answer to being "offended". So who have I threatened to kill lately?

 

I am imposing nothing by drawing a cartoon, writing a book or making a film.

 

What a surprise that the person who disagrees with me so venomously thinks i'm irrational and stubborn.

 

It has got NOTHING to do with religion. It happens to involve religiously motivated people. I would be just as pissed off if it was a people with a political dogma or any other ideology that was trying to pull this crap.

 

I've told you, I'm hostile to oppressive behaviour and nothing else. But it sounds like you would sense hostility from a falling leef.

 

Given the quality (lack of) response I am happy to leave this where it is now. You have been found wanting...

 

[leeslover]

That just proves you are a bigot. You simply cannot see this through the eyes of a different culture. Instead you impose your own culture on them and expect them to comply.

 

As for your revision of my analogy, it's kind of hypothetical because I have more decency and sense than to launch an unprovoked attack upon a group of people who just happen to be different to me.

I don't think it does Garcon. I prresume that PSSS is willing to have his beliefs mocked and ridiculed in any manner going, as am I. I also expect (granted, when at home) to be able to speak my mind openly. If I think Jesus was a poofter, Mohammed a nonce and the Vishnu a compulsive maturbator, then I will say so. Even if I don't believe it, but it pleases me to say so, then I wish to be free to do so. The offence arrives purely in the CHOICE of the offended believer in holding those views. This ought not to be my legal concern, it is his choice and he should bear the costs of it. Any conflict needs to be borne on the shoulders of the person whose lifestyle choice it is, the religious person.

 

Of course, I am a lovely man and I don't generally go out of my way to offend people for no good reason, which I fear this action may have had potential to do, hence my reservations. I do think however that we need to be very clear that the religious views of any citizen must not infringe on the liberty of any other person.

[oafc0000]

I do think however that we need to be very clear that the religious views of any citizen must not infringe on the liberty of any other person.

 

Very much agree with this view.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Given the quality (lack of) response I am happy to leave this where it is now. You have been found wanting...

Whatever you say. I find your constant accusations without justification wanting.

 

It's been like talking to a brick wall anyway.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

I don't think it does Garcon. I prresume that PSSS is willing to have his beliefs mocked and ridiculed in any manner going, as am I. I also expect (granted, when at home) to be able to speak my mind openly. If I think Jesus was a poofter, Mohammed a nonce and the Vishnu a compulsive maturbator, then I will say so. Even if I don't believe it, but it pleases me to say so, then I wish to be free to do so. The offence arrives purely in the CHOICE of the offended believer in holding those views. This ought not to be my legal concern, it is his choice and he should bear the costs of it. Any conflict needs to be borne on the shoulders of the person whose lifestyle choice it is, the religious person.

 

Of course, I am a lovely man and I don't generally go out of my way to offend people for no good reason, which I fear this action may have had potential to do, hence my reservations. I do think however that we need to be very clear that the religious views of any citizen must not infringe on the liberty of any other person.

 

Thank you leeslover. First bit of common sense i've read on here for a few pages.

 

To liberty

 

Andy

 

[leeslover]

Whatever you say. I find your constant accusations without justification wanting.

 

It's been like talking to a brick wall anyway.

IMO the truth lies somewhere within Phil. Should you be able to draw whatever images you want, without fear of intimidation, violence or anything else? 100% yes. Is this action a good way to challenge threats to freedom of speech, or generally good mannered behaviour? Perhaps not. I would certainly rather you be able to draw the drawing and offend the person who is offended than restrain you, however there are all manner of things we choose not to do that I think we should be allowed to do under the law. I tend not to say the c-word with respectable old ladies around for example, although I don't believe there is anything intrinsically wrong with it.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

I tend not to say the c-word with respectable old ladies around for example, although I don't believe there is anything intrinsically wrong with it.

 

No, but if the old ladies gave a savage beating to anyone who used the c-word (cantona ) then I would hope you would want to take a stand and show that they cannot control you like that.

 

[leeslover]

No, but if the old ladies gave a savage beating to anyone who used the c-word (cantona ) then I would hope you would want to take a stand and show that they cannot control you like that.

Indeed, I would hope they were prosecuted and their sticks removed. The flip side I guess is that I could have chosen not to use language whilst walking past the duck pond of a nice park on a Sunday afternoon that I use with my mates in a dirty old pub, and I probably would do. There will be many people walking past old ladies saying Cantona with a complete disregard for how much it upsets them, and whilst I oppose laws to stop the use of that word, on a personal level of behaviour I would make an argument that it's best not to. This is the crucial area to consider in this sort of argument, it's always easy to allow any sort of freedom of behaviour when you agree with it, it's when you don't that it raises challenges. As in many areas of life I think we need to seperate the personal from the legal.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Indeed, I would hope they were prosecuted and their sticks removed. The flip side I guess is that I could have chosen not to use language whilst walking past the duck pond of a nice park on a Sunday afternoon that I use with my mates in a dirty old pub, and I probably would do. There will be many people walking past old ladies saying Cantona with a complete disregard for how much it upsets them, and whilst I oppose laws to stop the use of that word, on a personal level of behaviour I would make an argument that it's best not to. This is the crucial area to consider in this sort of argument, it's always easy to allow any sort of freedom of behaviour when you agree with it, it's when you don't that it raises challenges. As in many areas of life I think we need to seperate the personal from the legal.

 

I feel I need to remind everyone that the events that have stirred all this include films, documentaries, cartoons, an animated TV comedy and a novel. All of these things have been deemed offensive to islam and (by some) worthy of the death penalty. The main reason everyone is doing random images of Mohammed in protest is that it would be somewhat impractical to for us all to do the alternatives.

 

It is really the simplest thing we can do to show that death threats are not sufficient a deterrant to silence any kind of critisism or satirisation of their beliefs. It is a small gesture in a show of solidarity with the people who have been silenced, threatened or killed. It may be more constructive to do a video or an animation (and there are some that have). But how many people have that kind of time or talent?

[Ackey]

A wonderful quote I heard today about religion: "I don't object to the concept of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one which takes attendance."

 

[Crusoe]

You've been watching Big Bang Theory as well then Ackey?

[Ackey]

You've been watching Big Bang Theory as well then Ackey?

Love it!

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

A wonderful quote I heard today about religion: "I don't object to the concept of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one which takes attendance."

 

 

I'm pretty baffled by the entire concept of a deity to be frank. Particularly one vain enough to desire and expect to be worshipped, and yet leaves no trace of his/her/it's existence.

 

How someone can believe in the existence of any being that is indistinguishable from a fictional one is beyond me.

 

 

 

[oafc0000]

I'm pretty baffled by the entire concept of a deity to be frank. Particularly one vain enough to desire and expect to be worshipped, and yet leaves no trace of his/her/it's existence.

 

How someone can believe in the existence of any being that is indistinguishable from a fictional one is beyond me.

 

I suppose that is where the faith bit comes into it...

 

I would argue there are examples but no point preaching to the "un-converted" when they don't want preaching to

Edited May 26, 2010 by oafc0000

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

I suppose that is where the faith bit comes into it...

 

I would argue there are examples but no point preaching to the "un-converted" when they don't want preaching to

 

Well, as an one of the un-converted and being a skeptical atheist, preaching to me is obviously inaffective. If you have examples, evidence or logical argument then that's another matter. I always welcome those.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

 

Please can someone tell me how to embedd a video in a post? It doesn't seem to work for me.

Edited May 27, 2010 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

[LeylandLatic]

Muhammad loves playing basketball whilst on a skateboard.......*

 

 

*Probably not true.

[Ackey]

http://beta.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b007...ion_of_Reality/