Zorrro Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Watch it or I will post something that will offend pretty much everyone on here... I have no desire to see your penis. Okay, maybe a little peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I have no desire to see your penis. Okay, maybe a little peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Being religious is not the same as joining your bands fan club you know... Just because you're indoctrinated into something doesn't make it your race. Your race does have social aspects, I accept, but if you choose to stop being a Muslim you don't stop being the race you were before - just as I stopped being a Christian as a child but I didn't stop being English/White/Western/Whatever you want to call me (don't say arse hole! ). You TOTALLY miss the point... Why cause offence to anyone on purpose ? Why not try to respect peoples feelings... Of course this is the ideal world. But, tragically, we don't live in that world and as such I feel compelled as part of the most oppressed 'religion' there is, Atheism, to stand up against the idea that just because some crackpot wrote a book about something you have a right to be offended. Simply, you don't - extreme or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) Just because you're indoctrinated into something doesn't make it your race. Your race does have social aspects, I accept, but if you choose to stop being a Muslim you don't stop being the race you were before - just as I stopped being a Christian as a child but I didn't stop being English/White/Western/Whatever you want to call me (don't say arse hole! ). I wasn't on about race you plum Of course this is the ideal world. But, tragically, we don't live in that world and as such I feel compelled as part of the most oppressed 'religion' there is, Atheism, to stand up against the idea that just because some crackpot wrote a book about something you have a right to be offended. Simply, you don't - extreme or not. Most the world is ideal... Its just a few turnips, yourself included, who want us all kicking it off in the streets... I hope and fight for a better society! As a christian I hold some ideas that may well offend some, but they are my ideas / opinions and I won't push them on someone else. Its a moral code I live my own life by. The majority of muslims are the same. The majority of atheists are the same. They don't seek to offend as this destroys society. Unfortunately, we have intolerant idiots on the fringes of different faiths and belief groups. Hopefully the masses will continue to marginalise the idiots. Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Indeed. And they are, almost certainly, going to be the dominant force in global economics for the foreseeable future - as their efforts to artificially create a middle class seem to be coming along swimmingly. A dominant force in global economics indeed, but when an earthquake kills thousands of school kids because of dodgy dealings with the government/poor quality of building workmanship/lack of health and safety and that then gets covered up by the government, I shall not doff my cap to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I wasn't on about race you plum In my defence, I'm very hungover Most the world is ideal... Its just a few turnips, yourself included, who want us all kicking it off in the streets... I hope and fight for a better society! As a christian I hold some ideas that may well offend some, but they are my ideas / opinions and I won't push them on someone else. Its a moral code I live my own life by. The majority of muslims are the same. The majority of atheists are the same. They don't seek to offend as this destroys society. Unfortunately, we have intolerant idiots on the fringes of different faiths and belief groups. Hopefully the masses will continue to marginalise the idiots. I appreciate the ideal. I too believe that the world would be better in a 'live and let live' society. To a very large and 'practical' sense I too live by that moral. However as an Atheist I feel constantly marginalised by our society. For example: the BBC, by law, has to be impartial when covering political matters. However it's allowed to broadcast Songs of Praise. Which claims, without foundation, that Christianity is 'correct' or 'real' or however you wish to term it, way to live life. That god is real and that Jesus is his son and so on and so forth. How can that be justified? You're Christian. I think you're nuts, but I have no objection to you being that way as at no point have you, personally, enforced your belief on me. However I do object to the institutional religiousness of this country and I feel I have a duty to myself and future generations to stand up to that in some way, no matter how small. I'm not an extremist in the way the word is used these days - I don't propose blowing up churches or any such actions - but I do believe that the time has come for people to stand up for their non-belief and to move our society to a rational-thinking and scientific foundation. Not one based on a fictional book from 2000 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 This was my favourite from the stuff I looked at... Ingenious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 and boom goes the dynamite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 A dominant force in global economics indeed, but when an earthquake kills thousands of school kids because of dodgy dealings with the government/poor quality of building workmanship/lack of health and safety and that then gets covered up by the government, I shall not doff my cap to them. Apologies if that's what you thought I was doing. Far from it. I, like Zeros, have been to China and seen first hand what their policy making brings to the poor. It's most certainly not the role-model you want for global economics. But then, equally, is the EU/US a good role model? This, of course, is a different debate for a different topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) In my defence, I'm very hungover I appreciate the ideal. I too believe that the world would be better in a 'live and let live' society. To a very large and 'practical' sense I too live by that moral. However as an Atheist I feel constantly marginalised by our society. For example: the BBC, by law, has to be impartial when covering political matters. However it's allowed to broadcast Songs of Praise. Which claims, without foundation, that Christianity is 'correct' or 'real' or however you wish to term it, way to live life. That god is real and that Jesus is his son and so on and so forth. How can that be justified? You're Christian. I think you're nuts, but I have no objection to you being that way as at no point have you, personally, enforced your belief on me. However I do object to the institutional religiousness of this country and I feel I have a duty to myself and future generations to stand up to that in some way, no matter how small. I'm not an extremist in the way the word is used these days - I don't propose blowing up churches or any such actions - but I do believe that the time has come for people to stand up for their non-belief and to move our society to a rational-thinking and scientific foundation. Not one based on a fictional book from 2000 years ago. So in short... You will impose your will upon people who reject your will ? Its not going to work mate. Its just going to piss people off, raise tensions and cause civil war... History proves this... When the war does come though, I want to be on the side of religion... Bunch of nutters not scared to die Plus we have god in our corner SMACK DOWN TIME ACKEYS going down Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Apologies if that's what you thought I was doing. Far from it. I, like Zeros, have been to China and seen first hand what their policy making brings to the poor. It's most certainly not the role-model you want for global economics. But then, equally, is the EU/US a good role model? This, of course, is a different debate for a different topic. Fair enough and yes it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Plus we have god in our corner I can just see it now: "God, we're being pinned back." *looks round* "God? Hello?" *deathly silence* "Oh, fu..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I can just see it now: "God, we're being pinned back." *looks round* "God? Hello?" *deathly silence* "Oh, fu..." :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Apologies if that's what you thought I was doing. Far from it. I, like Zeros, have been to China and seen first hand what their policy making brings to the poor. It's most certainly not the role-model you want for global economics. But then, equally, is the EU/US a good role model? This, of course, is a different debate for a different topic. As an Aethist Ackey, what would it take for you to become religious again? Before anybody asks, yes I'm Atheist too - after some time being Agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So in short... You will impose your will upon people who reject your will ? Its not going to work mate. Its just going to piss people off, raise tensions and cause civil war... History proves this... When the war does come though, I want to be on the side of religion... Bunch of nutters not scared to die Plus we have god in our corner SMACK DOWN TIME ACKEYS going down There's a difference between Religion's 'rule' and what I hope is forthcoming. I don't propose the overthrow of Religion or the enforcement of laws based on dogma. I propose that we base our lives, laws and beliefs on science. To do this doesn't require an overthrow or a power struggle, just the education of our children and our children's children in science and rational thinking. Once you raise kids to be aware of the world around them and the wonders it contains you really don't have to do much more. Without indoctrination at an early age it's proven that religion has little to no hold over people, because instead of faith and belief the actually think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) I propose that we base our lives, laws and beliefs on science. Scary suggestion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWBY283o5s Science is a good thing. It helps us grow. But it gives no moral guidance. Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As an Aethist Ackey, what would it take for you to become religious again? Before anybody asks, yes I'm Atheist too - after some time being Agnostic. That's one of my favourite questions to debate with people. It's difficult for me, as my Atheism stems less from my belief in deities and more from my opposition to dogmatic rule and organised religion. It's the reason I don't oppose people like Zeros being religious (as before, live and let live) but I do oppose the church he attends. An interesting conflict to live with, I assure you. As a result I don't think I could ever be religious. I don't think anyone should ever give up the right to question something. To seek answers to things they don't understand. If a being came along tomorrow which could 'prove' it was the equivalent to what we term a deity - omnipotent and omnipresent - then I would hope that people much smarter than I would start looking for how this being can do what it does. If this being were to demand - either in the first person or in book form - that I worship it blindly I would oppose that. Being an omnipotent and omnipresent being it would then be able to remove me from existence completely, both in the present and the past, and thus remove the question in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 But it gives no moral guidance. You don't need religion to teach right from wrong, though. Surely you can explain that killing someone is bad without resorting to threats of God smiting you with laser beams from his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) As a result I don't think I could ever be religious. I don't think anyone should ever give up the right to question something. To seek answers to things they don't understand. I don't ever remember giving that up... Religion is part of the pursuit for answers IMO... *Just so you know, not every Christian believes in the story of creation and such like... Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) You don't need religion to teach right from wrong, though. Surely you can explain that killing someone is bad without resorting to threats of God smiting you with laser beams from his eyes. Its not a question of "need" its a question of help / guidance... Your parents and community leaders are just as important. Science alone offers no guidance... Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I don't ever remember giving that up... You probably didn't, and haven't. So can I ask of you a similar question: What would it take for you to become Atheist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Scary suggestion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWBY283o5s Science is a good thing. It helps us grow. But it gives no moral guidance. Horse :censored:. Your (used loosely, I clearly don't know you well enough to comment on you specifically) morals are based on a book from 2000 years ago about a deity which told you to go out and kill anyone who was a non-believer. To this day people kill in the name of their god. To prove theirs is the one and only god. People don't kill to prove that X=Y! Science has, can and will kill people. That's a terrible side effect of the human condition. People will abuse power and ability to harm others. But more people (to an extent that is unimaginable) have died in the defence of the dogmatic beliefs than have ever been killed by science. And to use the A/H-bomb argument smacks of desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 You probably didn't, and haven't. So can I ask of you a similar question: What would it take for you to become Atheist? Very good question... Let me give it some thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Its not a question of "need" its a question of help / guidance... Your parents and community leaders are just as important. Science alone offers no guidance... My Father is a lapsed Catholic and my Mother - god bless her - is an Atheist. They have guided and continue to guide me without religion, as I will one day do the same to my kids. Read the bible. If you follow it's morals then you're going to kill a lot of people real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Scary suggestion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWBY283o5s Science is a good thing. It helps us grow. But it gives no moral guidance. :lol: You need moral guidance do you oafc0000? And you think religion is necessary to provide it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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