Black managers in Football

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Chris Powell insists FA is encouraging black managers

 

It annoyed me not because of Chris Powell (he seems to be the voice of sanity here) but because of the quotes attributed to Gordon Taylor and the Sports Minister.

 

Taylor's quote can be found in all it's mindnumbingly irritating context here:

 

Black British managers need extra help - Gordon Taylor

 

I have yet to see the Sports Minister's quote anywhere else.

 

And I'll tell you what else I haven't found anywhere; evidence of discrimination when it comes to hiring football managers.

[OldhamSheridan]

And I'll tell you what else I haven't found anywhere; evidence of discrimination when it comes to hiring football managers.

 

If there is any discrimination, it's against birds being given a go. Was it Grimblesby looking at Hope Powell? Met as if it was a joke by all and sundry.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

If there is any discrimination, it's against birds being given a go. Was it Grimblesby looking at Hope Powell? Met as if it was a joke by all and sundry.

 

With me the issue there is not about sex, but about the fact that Hope Powell has no experience in the men's game either professionally or on an amateur level.

 

I have never heard of anyone being appointed manager of a football league club who hasn't already played or worked in the men's game.

[jimsleftfoot]

If you have most of the boards of clubs made up of white middle aged men, there is going to be a least sub-concious discrimination, pretty much a fact of life.

 

I'm not really aware of the FA doing anything if i'm honest, but equally i'm not really aware of many top black footballers showing an interest in management anyway. The question therefore is why?

[Roger Ritchie]

Guardiola

[maddog]

The people who have said clubs discriminate against black managers - why do you think that?

[jimsleftfoot]

The people who have said clubs discriminate against black managers - why do you think that?

 

There are two kinds of discrimination, intentional and non-intentional. I am not going to say that there is any intentional discrimination, but there is likely to be a lot of unintentional discrimination. Why?

 

The boards of the majority of football teams are made up of white middle aged men. Therefore, it will likely that there will be a built in non-intentional bias towards white managers.

 

Therefore you could say the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough black owners or directors of football clubs.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

The people who have said clubs discriminate against black managers - why do you think that?

 

Because there are so few of them.

 

I realise that's seriously blunt spoon reasoning, but it is none the less true that there are very few black managers. The discrimination would range from the crass (racist chairman) to the extremely subtle, whereby black players are constantly or systemically discouraged from thinking they are management material over the course of a playing career.

 

That's my opinion anyhow. Back in the early 1990s, Everton went a few seasons (or maybe only a few weeks) without any black players, at a time when most teams had black players. No one accused Colin what's-his-face or Howard 'Ten Scotches' Kendall or whoever was the chairman of racism, but it was a bit odd. They signed Nigeria's Daniel Amocachi after the world cup in 1994.

[opinions4u]

I believe Britain has a population that is 3.2% black / mixed race.

 

So each team should (purely statistically speaking) have 0-1 black / mixed race players on the pitch at any time. I guess most team have more these days.

 

There should be 3 black / mixed race managers. One died, one was Paul Ince. Is it really a problem? Or is this another imaginary discrimination?

 

A bigger issue is the lack of inclusion of the Asian community within the culture of the game from top to bottom, on and off the pitch.

Edited April 11, 2011 by opinions4u

[rudemedic]

There are two kinds of discrimination, intentional and non-intentional. I am not going to say that there is any intentional discrimination, but there is likely to be a lot of unintentional discrimination. Why?

 

The boards of the majority of football teams are made up of white middle aged men. Therefore, it will likely that there will be a built in non-intentional bias towards white managers.

 

Therefore you could say the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough black owners or directors of football clubs.

 

Who is the richest black person in the world? How many black people are worth billions (the amount of money you realistically need to make money out of football)?

 

Aliko Dangote- he's Nigerian and was linked to buying a bit of Arsenal and he's worth $13billion.

According to Forbes there are only 4 "Black" billionaires in the world, one of whom is Oprah, plus two who are multiracial with elements of "Afro-Caribeean" as part of it. A South African owns one of the SA Premier League teams.

 

Its a sad effect of colonialism and slavery that "Afro-Caribbean" people are not as rich in proportion to the rest of the world. However, with the natural resources and development of Africa and the Caribbean this is changing.

 

In many ways its similar to the effect of Afro-Caribbean football in this country. Whilst there is a high percentage is Afro-Caribbean footballers in England, lots of them are imports and have much stronger ties with France than here. It would be unusual for the likes of Drogba and others to cut their managerial cloth in England as opposed to France and I doubt many will get a PL job as their first one in management, no matter what colour their skin is. Some of the Black players with strong links to England have already tried to pay their managerial dues in Britain and have been found wanting. Ince will probably get another job at this level or below, Palmer and Barnes wouldn't and not every ex-player wants to go into management.

 

The States brought in their "Rooney rule" because in their sports only really Yanks play them but there was still a significantly reduced number of Black coaches etc. If in twenty years there is still a significantly reduced number of Afro-Caribbean coaches in England then I would be a bit more concerned about institutional racism in football, but I doubt it.

[jimsleftfoot]

Who is the richest black person in the world? How many black people are worth billions (the amount of money you realistically need to make money out of football)?

 

 

Exactly!!! The men at the top aren't going to change any time soon, so neither will the non-intentional bias. Good point regarding the best black players in the PL being Foriegn, though do many of them go into football management/ownership elsewhere?

 

I saw a very good programme yesterday featuring Nial Ferguson - 'Civilisation - Is the West History' which said that the west became very powerfull largely based on the protestent work ethic of capitalism, hard work and thrift.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

The Asian absence is an uncomfortable mystery too.

 

Niall Ferguson says protestant work ethic and thrift, I say explicit racism, violence and exploitation. You pays your money and takes your choice.

[jimsleftfoot]

The Asian absence is an uncomfortable mystery too.

 

Niall Ferguson says protestant work ethic and thrift, I say explicit racism, violence and exploitation. You pays your money and takes your choice.

 

Thats all part of the protestant work ethic isn't it ;)

[rudemedic]

The Asian absence is an uncomfortable mystery too.

 

Niall Ferguson says protestant work ethic and thrift, I say explicit racism, violence and exploitation. You pays your money and takes your choice.

 

What's the ethnic makeup of the National team coaches in Asia? Don't a lot of them employ white europeans? If the Asians themselves don't employ Asian coaches why should Britih clubs?

 

In Africa- the situation is changing, a lot of the African countries employ Afro-Caribbean coaches, many with English experience.

 

Asians are becoming increasingly common as players in England, but there is always a background of them being employed for marketing, but I can see the likes of Ji-Sung Park going into management (although possibly not in this country at a level below the Premiership).

 

If in 10-15 years time the situation is still very similar then like I said above it would be worth considering, in 20 I think it should be done. In many ways, the Yanks could probably get rid of the rule now as it has enabelled those from an Afro-Caribbean background to get a "foot in the door" now and by keeping it it is becoming discriminatory against caucasians.

[leeslover]

I cant see the problem frankly. Footballers are amongst the most privileged people around and black people are massively over-represented among them. Doesnt bother me. I've no idea why not that many seem to go into coaching but it looks to of that the ones who have have had very fair opportunities.

[Roger Ritchie]

I think part of the reason may be that:

 

Black players are a fairly new thing in British football. Big money is also a new thing in British football. A lot of the black players that are imported into British football are paid a lot of money, they rarely retire into the media or into coaching as many others do. Money may be a factor in this and lack of role models/ racism.

 

I think.

 

Being a black man I also qualify for an opinion on this.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Of course it's also true that there are fewer vacancies for managers than there are for players - plenty of white players don't go into management.

[Zorrro]

Howard 'Ten Scotches' Kendall

 

Quote from a Sheffield United fan on another forum in reference to Nathan Blake's recent blog post (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/cardiff-city-fc/2011/04/11/nathan-blake-i-ll-be-smiling-if-bluebirds-help-relegate-smug-blades-91466-28495044/):

 

"I think part of the problem is that there's a strong rumour that Kendall sold him for... not entirely football reasons. Ol' Howard always favoured monochrome teams, shall we say."

[latic12345]

Quote from a Sheffield United fan on another forum in reference to Nathan Blake's recent blog post (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/footballnation/cardiff-city-fc/2011/04/11/nathan-blake-i-ll-be-smiling-if-bluebirds-help-relegate-smug-blades-91466-28495044/):

 

"I think part of the problem is that there's a strong rumour that Kendall sold him for... not entirely football reasons. Ol' Howard always favoured monochrome teams, shall we say."

 

He sounds like a right knob

Edited April 14, 2011 by latic12345

[oafc0000]

There are two kinds of discrimination, intentional and non-intentional. I am not going to say that there is any intentional discrimination, but there is likely to be a lot of unintentional discrimination. Why?

 

The boards of the majority of football teams are made up of white middle aged men. Therefore, it will likely that there will be a built in non-intentional bias towards white managers.

 

Therefore you could say the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough black owners or directors of football clubs.

 

This.

[oafc0000]

The Asian absence is an uncomfortable mystery too.

 

There is enough asian kids kicking balls around every weekend and playing in sunday leagues / school leagues for this to be a very uncomfortable mystery...

[Lookers_Carl]

Still think Gordon Taylor should keep his mouth shut. For one, the very notion that someone should get an interview purely because of the colour of their skin, which this is, is quite frankly racist in my opinion, and is most certainly not equal opportunities.

 

And secondly, do you think the likes of Ince, whom despite his recent failures I would consider to be a very respectable managerm would want to go for an interview somwhere if he knew he only got the interview because of the colour of his skin?

[leeslover]

There are two kinds of discrimination, intentional and non-intentional. I am not going to say that there is any intentional discrimination, but there is likely to be a lot of unintentional discrimination. Why?

 

The boards of the majority of football teams are made up of white middle aged men. Therefore, it will likely that there will be a built in non-intentional bias towards white managers.

 

Therefore you could say the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough black owners or directors of football clubs.

 

This.

Without hostility towards Jims or zeros, this argument makes my blood boil, therefore I thought it best to wait until I was drunk before replying to it. I believe Jim is alluding to the concept of, "institutional racism," that was flagged up in relation to the Met Police around the terrible Lawrence murder. That related to the fact that a highly largely white police force facing a situation where some geographical areas are (factually) dealing highly largely with black criminals might come to subconsciously adopt negative attitudes without intending to do so. The term has been adopted by loads of people who didn't read the context. Many black people are leaders, ultra high performers, stars in the world of football, the analogy just doesn't hold. The white middle class owners see many examples of success.

 

Incidentally, the majority of my colleagues are not white, and the Board are all white males (I wouldn't want to say middle class) and yet my boss x 3 is a black man of African origin, and people of all origins have made progress through the ranks. Given that we have seen that around a statistically reasonable representational norm of managers are black, could it just be that the club owners have picked the dickheads in the form of Ince and Carlton, and failed to recognise talent that is no doubt out there?

[Yard Dog]

There is enough asian kids kicking balls around every weekend and playing in sunday leagues / school leagues for this to be a very uncomfortable mystery...

 

I'm not so sure it is that much of mystery. 1/ Asians have faced massive racism from white and black lads until pretty recently and it's still uncommon for Asian lads to socialise with white/black lads outside of schools/colleges/work - this is changing though. 2/ It's only recently that many Asians have become inspired by/infuenced by/interested in western culture. Thinking about it, I was at secondary school as recently as 92 - 97 with 25% Pakistani/Bengali and no Asian lads played football (for the team, in PE or at break) or even seemed interested in football whatsoever.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

LL - even by your standards that defence of the Met is beyond outrageous. Jesus Christ Mother Mary and all the saints have you lost your mind?