Roger Ritchie Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 There is enough asian kids kicking balls around every weekend and playing in sunday leagues / school leagues for this to be a very uncomfortable mystery... They were rubbish when I used to play them though. We once played Grange school which had a 100% asian football team (three of which I went to Primary school with at Werneth) and beat them 27-0. I remember this game fondly because I scored 8 from centre mid. Kaskenmoor were also on the end of some heavy defeats from us. Failsworth were the best side in the borough at that age. Think they were the only team to constantly beat us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Without hostility towards Jims or zeros, this argument makes my blood boil, therefore I thought it best to wait until I was drunk before replying to it. I believe Jim is alluding to the concept of, "institutional racism," that was flagged up in relation to the Met Police around the terrible Lawrence murder. That related to the fact that a highly largely white police force facing a situation where some geographical areas are (factually) dealing highly largely with black criminals might come to subconsciously adopt negative attitudes without intending to do so. The term has been adopted by loads of people who didn't read the context. Many black people are leaders, ultra high performers, stars in the world of football, the analogy just doesn't hold. The white middle class owners see many examples of success. Incidentally, the majority of my colleagues are not white, and the Board are all white males (I wouldn't want to say middle class) and yet my boss x 3 is a black man of African origin, and people of all origins have made progress through the ranks. Given that we have seen that around a statistically reasonable representational norm of managers are black, could it just be that the club owners have picked the dickheads in the form of Ince and Carlton, and failed to recognise talent that is no doubt out there? If you are the type of person that would try and save their own family if a building was on fire, before other people who are perhaps easier to save, then I would say that you discriminate against others for being different. Humans inbuilt instinct to survive ensures that we are hard wired to discriminate. Nout to do with the Met LL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If you are the type of person that would try and save their own family if a building was on fire, before other people who are perhaps easier to save, then I would say that you discriminate against others for being different. Humans inbuilt instinct to survive ensures that we are hard wired to discriminate. Nout to do with the Met LL. Spot on mr foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) They were rubbish when I used to play them though. We once played Grange school which had a 100% asian football team (three of which I went to Primary school with at Werneth) and beat them 27-0. I remember this game fondly because I scored 8 from centre mid. Kaskenmoor were also on the end of some heavy defeats from us. Failsworth were the best side in the borough at that age. Think they were the only team to constantly beat us. Ha. 27 - 0 ! What zeros says isn't right in my experience anyway. There are only 3 or 4 'Asian' teams in the whole of the Oldham Sunday League that I can think of. And hardly any other Asian lads playing in the 'other' teams. There are 40 teams in the Oldham Sunday League, plus lots of Oldham teams playing in Rochdale, Ashton, Huddersfield, Manc Prem and Lancs And Cheshire leagues - no 'Asian' teams from Oldham playing in these leagues. So, actually you can see that aren't 'enough Asian kids kicking balls around every weekends' It'll take an 'Amir Khan of football' to appear for young Asians lads to really start coming through. Amongst a whole raft of other reasons, they need a role model. Look at the number of young Asians boxing now - all from Naz and Amir over the last 10 or 15 years. My gym's full of young Asian lads wanting to be the next Amir Khan. Edited April 15, 2011 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If you are the type of person that would try and save their own family if a building was on fire, before other people who are perhaps easier to save, then I would say that you discriminate against others for being different. Humans inbuilt instinct to survive ensures that we are hard wired to discriminate. Nout to do with the Met LL. We are possibly hard-wired to discrimate, but on race/skin colour ? Not sure about that fella. Some people are racist, most aren't, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 We are possibly hard-wired to discrimate, but on race/skin colour ? Not sure about that fella. Some people are racist, most aren't, in my experience. We are hard-wired to discriminate on any difference. That doesn't make you racist. It makes you human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 We are possibly hard-wired to discrimate, but on race/skin colour ? Not sure about that fella. Some people are racist, most aren't, in my experience. What he said ^^ I think discrimination soley on skin colour or ethnic origin is largely, if not completely, a cultural phenomenon. Discrimination based on in-groups and out-groups and someone's standing within your own social structure is different however. Tribal instincts are very much hard wired into us. Unfortunately some people seem to have it more hardwired than others. The more grounded amongst us refer to these people as "twats". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What he said ^^ I think discrimination soley on skin colour or ethnic origin is largely, if not completely, a cultural phenomenon. Discrimination based on in-groups and out-groups and someone's standing within your own social structure is different however. Tribal instincts are very much hard wired into us. Unfortunately some people seem to have it more hardwired than others. The more grounded amongst us refer to these people as "twats". Indeed. Humans have an in-built desire to succeed, be happy, be strong, be safe and live long. We will do whatever it takes achieve this. We will form relationships and groups to enhance our own position. I think discrimination (survival of the fittest etc) comes into this, but I think most of us will look to attributes like IQ, physical prowess and social skills of other individuals and discriminate on those over skin colour, ethinicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 What needs to explained is why football managers (not always the most enlightened people in the world) seem more than happy to sign black players and white middle class chairmen pay them - i would suggest that its because there are a lot of good black players around and the managers want to succeed by having good players. Why do owners not do the same with managers? We cant answer this without knowing if there are good potential black managers trying to come through at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 LL - even by your standards that defence of the Met is beyond outrageous. Jesus Christ Mother Mary and all the saints have you lost your mind? I believe that you know I am no fan of the Met. It seemed to me that Jim was referring to the concept of institutionalised racism which was ascribed to the Met, and which has since been misquoted/misused by every man and his dog - seems he wasn't thinking of that anyway. My deeper point remains that we need to think a bit deeper about this. Is there really a problem at all? I'm not saying there isn't but percentages play all ways if you want them to. Maybe the chairmen subconsciously think that black people are good for running around but aren't clever enough to make clever decisions - but hang on, how many chairmen have rejected an application from a potential ca ndidate because of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hope Powell is looking for work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23768854 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hope Powell is looking for work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23768854 Could be the experienced no 2 some people want, and at the same time pander to those that want to sing "get your .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You'd have thought there'd have been another way to go about it, rather than sacking her, after 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Could be the experienced no 2 some people want, and at the same time pander to those that want to sing "get your ....Bet you she won't do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Honest question. Is the case for more black/ethnic managers in the league hampered by the fact the highest profile black manager in the league is such a colossal :censored:? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Honest question. Is the case for more black/ethnic managers in the league hampered by the fact the highest profile black manager in the league is such a colossal :censored:? I think the fact Paul Ince is such a colossal :censored: causes people to overlook that Chris Hughton is the highest profile black manager in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Ince is arguably a higher profile individual. But yes Hughton is at a higher status club - and is the example to follow. Very, very good manager (who was appallingly treated by Newcastle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Aside from Paul Ince being such a colossal that the most high profile black British manager was a quite amazingly inept clown could also be part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Ha. 27 - 0 ! What zeros says isn't right in my experience anyway. There are only 3 or 4 'Asian' teams in the whole of the Oldham Sunday League that I can think of. And hardly any other Asian lads playing in the 'other' teams. There are 40 teams in the Oldham Sunday League, plus lots of Oldham teams playing in Rochdale, Ashton, Huddersfield, Manc Prem and Lancs And Cheshire leagues - no 'Asian' teams from Oldham playing in these leagues. So, actually you can see that aren't 'enough Asian kids kicking balls around every weekends' . Joking, aren't you? There's loads of them and, I'm sure Youngen will back me up when I say this, but most of said teams are :censored:ing arseholes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Joking, aren't you? There's loads of them and, I'm sure Youngen will back me up when I say this, but most of said teams are :censored:ing arseholes... To name a few, Coppice A, Coppice B, Oldham Tigers, Oldham FC, Westwood and All Stars FC. Of the 6 teams listed my own team have been involved in full blown scraps with 3 of them resulting in abandonments. We have never played 2 of them. And before you say its because my team is racist, both Westwood and Oldham tigers were docked points last season for having their game abandoned resulting in police turning up to stop the fighting. The racism and eagerness to start kicking and resulting to violence on the field seems to normally come from the Asian lads. On Sunday we played Coppice B. I was chatting to their centre half (who has been known in the past to cause trouble) over decisions on the field and we were generally agreeing on things and I thought maybe he wasnt as bad as I remembered. However after one niggly tackle the lad then decides hes going to tell me hes going to break my leg next tackle, and his team mates start talking about chopping everyone who touches the ball. Luckily the referee had control of the game, but in the OSL more often than not the referee doesnt and the game can get nasty. As LS above said the majority of them are arseholes and are expecting everyone they play to be racist towards them and its like they have this mentality that they have to kick us first before they get kicked. TBH Ive played against some relatively good standard Asian lads, and many I have encountered in Saturday leagues at a high standard, but I dont think they have the same commitment from an early age and arent pushed by friends and family etc as their isnt any role models for them to follow, and I can imagine the Asian community would feel like "whats the point theirs no Asians in football". I cant imagine OAFC scouts going to a predominately Asian school and looking for talent either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Seems to me that there's not enough black managers plying their trade in football management, hence the shortage of black men applying for managerial jobs .As for asians, although it seems there is a lot of interest in football,i'm not to sure they take it seriously enough to excel, hence the lack of asians playing top level football. Edited September 3, 2013 by Scratch2000uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 The people who have said clubs discriminate against black managers - why do you think that? Racism and John Barnes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 For want of a better term, if there was an all 'asian' (asin brown skinned pakistani types, not people from asia) team, I think they would be really good. Obviously it wont happen because they would be a magnet for crowd trouble and fall foul of some laws. But if there was, and they started at the bottom, I reckon they would fly up the leagues in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think the fact Paul Ince is such a colossal :censored: causes people to overlook that Chris Hughton is the highest profile black manager in the league. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24158903 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Steve Evans holds onto c-bomb status, but only just. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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