Lookers_Carl Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Think the commentators said Hate actually weighed under 15 stone at the time of the fight, giving Wladmir nearly a 3 stone weight advantage. Haye is a fab cruiserweight, but he is no heavyweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well done Wlad. Easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The most disappointing thing is, Haye could have won. Don't get me wrong, there was only one winner in there, one heavyweight champ but after all the talking, all the hype and the KO promises Haye simply lay down and fell into WLad's rhythm, he didn't go for it, he didn't try to hurt Wlad early and his :censored:ty gameplan basically gave himself no chance. He was doomed before he entered the ring. If he'd tried to KO Wlad, if he went in there to take Wlad's head off like he promised and got knocked out doing so it would be a lot easier to accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 They could re-schedule this fight a hundred times and Wlad would win all of them. He flopped and lolled around like a big girl. Yeah, the toe would've been a problem launching the right and would've affected his balance - note he opted for the poorly timed overhand-right on more than one occasion; however he did well evading Wlad, shifting weight from one leg to the other, weaving. So I'm not sure a three-week old toe injury is completely the reason. Wlad has got a great plodding left jab that kept Haye at bay, he just couldn't get around it - and after it got past the opportunity rounds for Haye to knock Wlad out you knew there was only going to be one winner. He missed his window, and couldn't offer a second plan of attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 He definately didn't do himself any favours that's for sure - but the ref was a p r i c k the way he dealt with it. We've seen Wlad lean in, and posture up for a what looks like for all but application a bad standing guillotine, and he was docked a point (the round still ended 9-9) for doing it, but I noticed Haye was flopping with very little pressure once - that's to my knowledge. Haye was warned about the flop and eventually it incurred a standing count: it was a perfect action to remedy it (albeit late on). So I applaud the refs actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) They could re-schedule this fight a hundred times and Wlad would win all of them. He flopped and lolled around like a big girl. Yeah, the toe would've been a problem launching the right and would've affected his balance - note he opted for the poorly timed overhand-right on more than one occasion; however he did well evading Wlad, shifting weight from one leg to the other, weaving. So I'm not sure a three-week old toe injury is completely the reason. Wlad has got a great plodding left jab that kept Haye at bay, he just couldn't get around it - and after it got past the opportunity rounds for Haye to knock Wlad out you knew there was only going to be one winner. He missed his window, and couldn't offer a second plan of attack. Agree, said all along Wlad would use the same strategy that has worked time and again for him, jab, jab, jab try and back it up with a big 'un, half a step back to evade and cling on if in trouble. I fancied Haye to hurt him but it never happened, Wlad was too big, too goods and too evasive. Haye looked clueless in there. Boring or not the Ukrainian outclassed him and I agree - Wlad would win the re-match and probably even more convincingly. Haye proved he is all talk and little substance, Wlad proved himself a worthy champ in and out of the ring and by handling himself in the way he has, has won my respect and that of many other boxing fans. Haye will be quickly forgotten. If Haye does fight on he needs a world-class trainer, always thought Booth was decent but he came up well short - he'd do well to get in with Roach or even Manny Steward, who have that ability to change fighters styles, train them to win titles and keep the buggers... Edited July 3, 2011 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Agree, said all along Wlad would use the same strategy that has worked time and again for him, jab, jab, jab try and back it up with a big 'un, half a step back to evade and cling on if in trouble. I fancied Haye to hurt him but it never happened, Wlad was too big, too goods and too evasive. Haye looked clueless in there. Boring or not the Ukrainian outclassed him and I agree - Wlad would win the re-match and probably even more convincingly. Haye proved he is all talk and little substance, Wlad proved himself a worthy champ in and out of the ring and by handling himself in the way he has, has won my respect and that of many other boxing fans. Haye will be quickly forgotten. If Haye does fight on he needs a world-class trainer, always thought Booth was decent but he came up well short - he'd do well to get in with Roach or even Manny Steward, who have that ability to change fighters styles, train them to win titles and keep the buggers... According to the commentators, Haye was actually 3lbs lighter than what he was at the weigh in at just under 15 stone, which would have give Wlad nearly a 3 stone weight advantage. Broken toe or not, when you move up the weights, your opponents hit harder, and your punches don't do as much damage. Naseem found that out the hard way, as did Hatton, and Haye last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 My highlight of the night was the bloke getting his gumshield smashed out of his face in the fight beforehand. Pow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 My highlight of the night was the bloke getting his gumshield smashed out of his face in the fight beforehand. Pow! That was a crack and a half wasnt it. Ref could have counted to 100 and he wouldnt have got up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 They could re-schedule this fight a hundred times and Wlad would win all of them. He flopped and lolled around like a big girl. Yeah, the toe would've been a problem launching the right and would've affected his balance - note he opted for the poorly timed overhand-right on more than one occasion; however he did well evading Wlad, shifting weight from one leg to the other, weaving. So I'm not sure a three-week old toe injury is completely the reason. Wlad has got a great plodding left jab that kept Haye at bay, he just couldn't get around it - and after it got past the opportunity rounds for Haye to knock Wlad out you knew there was only going to be one winner. He missed his window, and couldn't offer a second plan of attack. Yeah, maybe....maybe Haye could never beat him, I dunno, he showed he had the power to bother Klitschko, with a different gameplan, maybe he could have stunned Klitschko early before letting him get into a rhythm. Wlad's jab was a huge contributing factor, but he didn't throw it for every second of every round, Haye avoided a lot of Wlad's shots but never tried following through with a counter punch. He never seemed to decided to just go for it, he threw one or two shots in small bursts and then he was done for the round. I feel so cheated by Haye, after all the talk all the promises he went out like that. 3 years in the making and we got that, micky mouse fights against Monty Barrett and Audley, but we turned a blind eye to them because we knew it was all on the path to dethroning the Klitschko's. I wish they'd fought in June 09 now. This whole thing, dragging on as long as it did has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I hope Haye :censored:s off now and becomes the "play boy celebrity" he wants to be, no doubt he'll end up on reality TV shows and be in our faces for a long time to come. As long as he doesn't try and fool the British public into paying £15 for another one of his fights again. I guess it's down to Carl Froch now, a true warrior, on the hardest fighting streak of any British boxer and he's in the Super Six final against Andre Ward on October 29th. If he wins that, he well and truly cements his place as a better Super Middleweight than Joe Calzaghe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 he had a broken toe dontcha know ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 he had a broken toe dontcha know ! This little piggy went to market, this little piggy stayed at home, this little piggy had roast beef, this little piggy had none and this little piggy went snap and stopped me knocking the big ugly Ukrainian out…... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 Vitali annihilated Tomasz Adamek last night. I just can't see anybody beating him at the moment. That was brutal last night. Apparently, Haye has been calling Vitali out in the German press The beast has only lost 2 fights - Lennox and Byrd. Both injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 If he wins that, he well and truly cements his place as a better Super Middleweight than Joe Calzaghe. Bringing this thread up points out this amazing statement. You can tell Mr Livo knows his stuff, but really? NB. I think Haye should get fat and retire in five years, Naseem stylee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Bringing this thread up points out this amazing statement. You can tell Mr Livo knows his stuff, but really? NB. I think Haye should get fat and retire in five years, Naseem stylee. Froch has put in some amazing and very entertaining performances against some of the best around - and the super-mid division is STRONG at present. But Calzaghe is the better boxer. Froch was disappointing Vs Kessler and Dirrell. He was lucky to get the decision against Dirrell. And it took a miraculous 12th round comeback from the dead to (somehow) beat Jermaine Taylor, after being hammered in the previous rounds. Edited September 11, 2011 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I dont know my boxing half as well as some in this thread, but from what i have seen calzaghe has looked like about the best british fighter at any weight in my lifetime. Guess i should make an effort to see Froch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Bringing this thread up points out this amazing statement. You can tell Mr Livo knows his stuff, but really? I already think Carl Froch has a better resume than Joe C. But if he beats Andre Ward, I don't even see how it's up for dispute. Froch has beat: Jean Pascal (former Light heavyweight champ), Jermaine Taylor (former undisputed middleweight champ), Andre Dirrell (arguably the most naturally talented fighter on the Super Six and first person to out class Arthur Abraham), Arthur Abraham (former Middleweight Champ), Glen Johnson (a tough durable super middlweight/light heavyweight that Ko'd Roy Jones Jr and someone Joe C never wanted to fight). In between all of them Froch lost a close decision to Mikkel Kessler in Kessler's home town in what was a Rocky II like fight. Most of those fights were away from home too, Froch travelled to his opponents backyard and only came away once without a win. Fair enough, Joe beat a prime Kessler and head to head he beats Froch everyday of the week, but for Joe's 46 fights he never had a run of fights as tough as Carl Froch had (Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, Abraham, Johnson, Ward), no where fúcking near. Joe beat undefeated American Jeff Lacy and then followed it up with a fight against The Contender runner up Peter Manfredo Jr. Joe has such a padded record, if you name all of his notable wins (Eubank - Far past his best, Lacy - The next big thing but who has now been beaten by every man and his dog, Kessler - Good win, still looks strong, Hopkins - Controversial win which many people think Joe lost, but not me and that win still grows strong), it's not much after looking at Carl Froch's resume and how much more talented Calzaghe was compared to Froch. Nah, Joe C could have done so much more if he hadn't been so protected. In terms of resume, Froch looks better, but Joe C is the better figher H2H. Edited September 11, 2011 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) The British public know fúck all about Froch but he's had the toughest run of fights that any British Boxer has EVER had, full stop. And if he beats Andre Ward, he pretty much cements himself up there with Lennox Lewis as a great British Boxer. Fúck Khan, Hatton, Calzaghe, whoever. Froch might be less talented than all of them, but every fight he's been in for the past 2 years has been a dangerous fight against a live opponent. Edited September 11, 2011 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The British public know fúck all about Froch but he's had the toughest run of fights that any British Boxer has EVER had, full stop. And if he beats Andre Ward, he pretty much cements himself up there with Lennox Lewis as a great British Boxer. Fúck Khan, Hatton, Calzaghe, whoever. Froch might be less talented than all of them, but every fight he's been in for the past 2 years has been a dangerous fight against a live opponent. Froch has been a have gloves will travel kind of fighter for years. He has been involved in some of the best fights of the past ten years. His style is entertaining as he walks forward gets hit a lot (until recently where his hands have gone up a bit higher) and goes hell for leather back. A better promoter would have seen Froch as a nations darling years ago. Fortunately for him he is now getting the press he deserves. Froch has shown recently he has boxing skills, along with the granite chin and power in both hands. His footwork may not be the best but that is what has made his fights so entertaining. He is my favourite current british boxer and I hope he wins and starts to hold some sway so he can start boxing at home again as he is the only boxer of the current breed that I like and have yet to see. Not too sure how I feel about the OK magazine piece though. On Calzaghe, he had the skills and all the class in the world but the problems with his hands meant he couldn't take people out which is what a lot of people want to see. Frampton looked class on Saturday. The Mcclosky - Khanqueror (probably the worst nickname in boxing - The best being 'imaculate' conception) fight was brilliant, I would have scored it a draw with the 10-8 round. However justice was probably done as there was no way that was a knock down. Would definitely like to see more of Prescott though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) I already think Carl Froch has a better resume than Joe C. But if he beats Andre Ward, I don't even see how it's up for dispute. Froch has beat: Jean Pascal (former Light heavyweight champ), Jermaine Taylor (former undisputed middleweight champ), Andre Dirrell (arguably the most naturally talented fighter on the Super Six and first person to out class Arthur Abraham), Arthur Abraham (former Middleweight Champ), Glen Johnson (a tough durable super middlweight/light heavyweight that Ko'd Roy Jones Jr and someone Joe C never wanted to fight). In between all of them Froch lost a close decision to Mikkel Kessler in Kessler's home town in what was a Rocky II like fight. Most of those fights were away from home too, Froch travelled to his opponents backyard and only came away once without a win. Fair enough, Joe beat a prime Kessler and head to head he beats Froch everyday of the week, but for Joe's 46 fights he never had a run of fights as tough as Carl Froch had (Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, Abraham, Johnson, Ward), no where fúcking near. Joe beat undefeated American Jeff Lacy and then followed it up with a fight against The Contender runner up Peter Manfredo Jr. Joe has such a padded record, if you name all of his notable wins (Eubank - Far past his best, Lacy - The next big thing but who has now been beaten by every man and his dog, Kessler - Good win, still looks strong, Hopkins - Controversial win which many people think Joe lost, but not me and that win still grows strong), it's not much after looking at Carl Froch's resume and how much more talented Calzaghe was compared to Froch. Nah, Joe C could have done so much more if he hadn't been so protected. In terms of resume, Froch looks better, but Joe C is the better figher H2H. Can't argue with much of that. But what you're saying here is a little different to '' If he wins that, he well and truly cements his place as a better Super Middleweight than Joe Calzaghe. '' As you have said, Froch will never be 'better' than Calzaghe. But he probably does have better scalps on his record. Froch's had to do what he's done - the division is stronger than it was when Joe was in his prime. But full credit to Froch, he's put in some amazing performances. Just brilliant to watch. Shame he has his hands so low. But when you have a chin like he has I suppose you can fight like that. Edited September 15, 2011 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 Froch has been a have gloves will travel kind of fighter for years. He has been involved in some of the best fights of the past ten years. His style is entertaining as he walks forward gets hit a lot (until recently where his hands have gone up a bit higher) and goes hell for leather back. A better promoter would have seen Froch as a nations darling years ago. Fortunately for him he is now getting the press he deserves. Froch has shown recently he has boxing skills, along with the granite chin and power in both hands. His footwork may not be the best but that is what has made his fights so entertaining. He is my favourite current british boxer and I hope he wins and starts to hold some sway so he can start boxing at home again as he is the only boxer of the current breed that I like and have yet to see. Not too sure how I feel about the OK magazine piece though. On Calzaghe, he had the skills and all the class in the world but the problems with his hands meant he couldn't take people out which is what a lot of people want to see. Frampton looked class on Saturday. The Mcclosky - Khanqueror (probably the worst nickname in boxing - The best being 'imaculate' conception) fight was brilliant, I would have scored it a draw with the 10-8 round. However justice was probably done as there was no way that was a knock down. Would definitely like to see more of Prescott though. Was a good night's boxing. Frampton looked out of that guy's league. McCloskey did very well - true determination, but he was there for the taking and Prescott lost that fight due to poor fitness again. I don't rate McCloskley massively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Can't argue with much of that. But what you're saying here is a little different to '' If he wins that, he well and truly cements his place as a better Super Middleweight than Joe Calzaghe. '' As you have said, Froch will never be 'better' than Calzaghe. But he probably does have better scalps on his record. Froch's had to do what he's done - the division is stronger than it was when Joe was in his prime. But full credit to Froch, he's put in some amazing performances. Just brilliant to watch. Shame he has his hands so low. But when you have a chin like he has I suppose you can fight like that. If Froch beats Ward he has the greatest SMW resume of all time imo. But he'll never be the best head 2 head 'cause I think Calzaghe beats him everytime. Then again on that point you could argue that Joe isn't the best SMW of all time because Roy Jones Jr at SMW would have beat Joe around for fun, yet RJJ didn't stay at SMW that long and will be regarded historically as a LHW. Record is the only thing that will stand the test of time and Froch is well on the way to trumping Joe C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The point about calzaghe's hands affecting his career is. Interesting. In so far as his solution was to land astonishing combinations of 6, 7 or 8 punches i found his style more entertaining than if he was just bombing people out. I dont know enough to know if he dodged fights but i dont think you can question the man's heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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