24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I heard the match reports for last night's England clash with footballing titans Montenegro. Is it true what they say about Rooney lashing out and getting sent off (I bet any money it is). They're saying he'll be suspended for the first two games of the finals, but the mystery is this: why is he being considered for selection in the first place? See if he were German, or Spanish, he wouldn't be anywhere near the national team, just because of indiscipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I heard the match reports for last night's England clash with footballing titans Montenegro. Is it true what they say about Rooney lashing out and getting sent off (I bet any money it is). They're saying he'll be suspended for the first two games of the finals, but the mystery is this: why is he being considered for selection in the first place? See if he were German, or Spanish, he wouldn't be anywhere near the national team, just because of indiscipline. Maybe his dad did as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) I heard the match reports for last night's England clash with footballing titans Montenegro. Is it true what they say about Rooney lashing out and getting sent off (I bet any money it is). They're saying he'll be suspended for the first two games of the finals, but the mystery is this: why is he being considered for selection in the first place? See if he were German, or Spanish, he wouldn't be anywhere near the national team, just because of indiscipline. Lashed out was pretty stupid really. Why is he selected? quite simply he's Englands best player Zinediene Zidane was partial to acts of indiscipline didn't stop him from being selected and while Zizu can say he has cut it at international level and can rightly stand aloft above Rooney for this reason the comparison is more to do with their standing in their respective teams rather than their talent. Zizu was his teams talisman, as is Rooney for England. Perhaps what has happened to his Dad was on his mind but you couldn't imagine Wayne Rooney turning round and saying no I don't want to play because of it he's not that type of player. Edited October 8, 2011 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 He didn't need to play last night. The manager doesn't need to be a psychiatric expert to spot that what actually happened was a risk before he selected his team. Idiotic by Rooney. But he should have been on the bench or back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Lashed out was pretty stupid really. Why is he selected? quite simply he's Englands best player Zinediene Zidane was partial to acts of indiscipline didn't stop him from being selected and while Zizu can say he has cut it at international level and can rightly stand aloft above Rooney for this reason the comparison is more to do with their standing in their respective teams rather than their talent. Zizu was his teams talisman, as is Rooney for England. Perhaps what has happened to his Dad was on his mind but you couldn't imagine Wayne Rooney turning round and saying no I don't want to play because of it he's not that type of player. The difference is that Zidane had a modicum of intelligence (as well as shed loads more talent...). Zidane's indiscipline usually came at times of intense on-pitch pressure (e.g: The World Cup Final incident...), yet Rooney just tends to lose it when there appears to be no real need. England winning and almost through to the Euros against Montenegro (of all teams), yet he decides this is the time to lose his cool. The stuff going on off the pitch might have been a factor, but it's not the first time he's shown such lack of self-control. As for the England team in general, I think the whole set-up needs reviewing. Euros and World Cups should be a time when the whole nation can get behind their representatives but I, for one, just can't get any enthusiasm for the national team at the moment. Grinding out 1-0 wins against the likes of Wales and scraping draws against Montenegro - I bet Holland and Spain are quacking in their boots for the Euros. You could be forgiven for thinking they're just waiting to peak and will turn it on for the big tournament but I think, as the last World Cup proved, this isn't going to happen. My introduction to the national team was Italia '90 and Euro '96. Both those England squads and management were rammed with personality and talent (much like Latics during the "pinch-me" years) and played good, attacking football. There is absolutely no identity between the current crop and the nation in general, in my opinion. Maybe it's a money thing, but there just seems to be no one that would make me think; "yeah, he seems a good bloke - I hope he does well". Anyone who says they've fallen out of love with Latics, well I'm a few miles further with England - I just don't really care how they do anymore. I don't expect to be entertained with Latics, but I do with England and it's not happening at the moment. I think the first step to getting the enthusiasm back would be sacking Capello. We haven't got a clue as to what kind of a person he is because of the language barrier and if his management style is a reflection of his personality he must be dull, stubborn and unimaginative. In the Euros next summer, I can see us at best doing what we did in the last World Cup - getting through to the knock out stages after struggling in the groups against the also-rans then getting battered by anyone half-decent. Roll on the World Cup qualifiers I say, as long as we appoint the right manager after Capello's gone.... Edited October 8, 2011 by JoeP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 My introduction to the national team was Italia '90 and Euro '96. Well hold on. Italia '90 we drew two awful games and went through due to edging a real thriller 1-0 against Egypt. We then went on to beat Belgium and the mighty Cameroon. Our best performance was in getting beat by Germany. In '96 the draw with the Swiss, beating a rank Scottish side - the only good game we played was against the Dutch. The Spanish beat us, but were robbed. Again the only other good game we played was against Germany. People seem to go into fantasy land when looking back on previous campaigns. They are rarely as great or poor as one thinks. There is virtually never* the flowing football that people dream of. I also don't think Capello is in any way, shape or form the problem. The problem has been stated many times, that the whole upbringing of kids and football is wrong in this country. I also can't think of a replacement for him. Who will it be? Stuart Pearce? *That Dutch game and beating Germany are about the only examples I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'm going the way of Joe. Wayne Rooney isn't Zidane - not by a million miles. We saw first hand what a team of lesser talents can do to a disparate bunch of so-called stars. We should be emulating the German model, not breeding another golden generation of frauds and bluffers. If Capello wants to do us a long-term favour, he should tell Rooney to sling his hook now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Well hold on. Italia '90 we drew two awful games and went through due to edging a real thriller 1-0 against Egypt. We then went on to beat Belgium and the mighty Cameroon. Our best performance was in getting beat by Germany. In '96 the draw with the Swiss, beating a rank Scottish side - the only good game we played was against the Dutch. The Spanish beat us, but were robbed. Again the only other good game we played was against Germany. People seem to go into fantasy land when looking back on previous campaigns. They are rarely as great or poor as one thinks. There is virtually never* the flowing football that people dream of. I also don't think Capello is in any way, shape or form the problem. The problem has been stated many times, that the whole upbringing of kids and football is wrong in this country. I also can't think of a replacement for him. Who will it be? Stuart Pearce? *That Dutch game and beating Germany are about the only examples I can think of. Harry Redknapp? With regards Italia '90 and Euro '96 - I think you missed my point slightly. The two squads and staff were full of personalities that we, as a nation, wanted to do well. In Italy it was Bobby Robson, Gazza, Waddle, Pearce and Lineker; in Euro 96 it was Venables, Gazza and Pearce (again) and Shearer. It's easier to forgive bad performances against the likes of Egypt and the Swiss if they show a bit of character and a bit of humanity even. Plus, lets not forget we achieved relative success in those two tournaments - can you really see Capello and his cronies putting up a fight in the semi-finals next summer? The current set-up are just a bunch of robots, who won't surprise us with anything they achieve and I for one am very blase about how they do at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'm going the way of Joe. Wayne Rooney isn't Zidane - not by a million miles. We saw first hand what a team of lesser talents can do to a disparate bunch of so-called stars. We should be emulating the German model, not breeding another golden generation of frauds and bluffers. If Capello wants to do us a long-term favour, he should tell Rooney to sling his hook now. I'm not sure how long you get suspendered for using violent conduct in qualifiers. If he gets done for three games, I'd ditch him for the tournament. If less, I'd take him. He is our most talented player (maybe Hart could be argued), but if he isn't really available and acts like a spanner - who is to argue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The difference is that Zidane had a modicum of intelligence (as well as shed loads more talent...). Zidane's indiscipline usually came at times of intense on-pitch pressure (e.g: The World Cup Final incident...), yet Rooney just tends to lose it when there appears to be no real need. England winning and almost through to the Euros against Montenegro (of all teams), yet he decides this is the time to lose his cool. The stuff going on off the pitch might have been a factor, but it's not the first time he's shown such lack of self-control. As for the England team in general, I think the whole set-up needs reviewing. Euros and World Cups should be a time when the whole nation can get behind their representatives but I, for one, just can't get any enthusiasm for the national team at the moment. Grinding out 1-0 wins against the likes of Wales and scraping draws against Montenegro - I bet Holland and Spain are quacking in their boots for the Euros. You could be forgiven for thinking they're just waiting to peak and will turn it on for the big tournament but I think, as the last World Cup proved, this isn't going to happen. My introduction to the national team was Italia '90 and Euro '96. Both those England squads and management were rammed with personality and talent (much like Latics during the "pinch-me" years) and played good, attacking football. There is absolutely no identity between the current crop and the nation in general, in my opinion. Maybe it's a money thing, but there just seems to be no one that would make me think; "yeah, he seems a good bloke - I hope he does well". Anyone who says they've fallen out of love with Latics, well I'm a few miles further with England - I just don't really care how they do anymore. I don't expect to be entertained with Latics, but I do with England and it's not happening at the moment. I think the first step to getting the enthusiasm back would be sacking Capello. We haven't got a clue as to what kind of a person he is because of the language barrier and if his management style is a reflection of his personality he must be dull, stubborn and unimaginative. In the Euros next summer, I can see us at best doing what we did in the last World Cup - getting through to the knock out stages after struggling in the groups against the also-rans then getting battered by anyone half-decent. Roll on the World Cup qualifiers I say, as long as we appoint the right manager after Capello's gone.... You know what Joe - I agree with every word. I've posted before that I, like you, have lost the love for the national team. I haven't watched 1 game since the World Cup fiasco, and I actually dont intend to watch another one anytime soon either..... The problem for me is I don't / can't relate to any of the over-paid, our hyped prima-donna "stars" that make up our squad. As you post later; previous sides included players like Tony Adams, Terry Butcher, Stuart Pearce, David Platt, Ian Wright, Alan Shearer.....players who you could see that it meant the world to be pulling on the 3 Lions Shirt, players who engaged with the public; who we could relate to and get behind. When they scored a goal; it felt like we were right there with them scoring it too. When we got results like Italy away, we as a nation felt the outpouring of emotion just like we saw from Adams & Wright that night.... Now fast-forward to this bunch from the Premier League and who is there who engages; who can we 'latch onto'? There are dispicable individuals in that side like Terry & Cole; who I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire; and they are the centre pieces of the side. It's also a huge issue that we a country just simply aren't producing players of a standard that are going to be able to compete with the likes of Spain, Germany, Italy et all. When Mezult Ozil left Gareth Barry for dead & went on to set-up Muller in the 4-1 humiliation; it spoke volumes for me. Our players are pound for pound of a pourer quality than the other nations. England's "best" players are slower, have less technique and it seems have less heart & passion for playing for their country. It doesn't really matter who manages this group, be it Capello or a successor like Redknapp. The problem is an endemic one with our national game. We're just not good enough, as our players, our tactics, our whole set-up are so far behind other nations......We're set for a succession of poor group stage games and a weak surrender at the 1st knock-out stage, and to be honest - I won't be watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 It's also a huge issue that we a country just simply aren't producing players of a standard that are going to be able to compete with the likes of Spain, Germany Turkey, Italy et all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'm with Slystallone on this one. Barry had a five yard head start and didn't even get near enough to bring Ozil down. I sat there thinking, "This is the end of an era," but it turns out that we've done nothing by way of the national rethink that was so obviously necessary. Terry personifies this problem in many ways. Whether he's good enough is a matter of debate, as is his general character, but his support for Rooney post-Montenegro was astonishing. To him it was unthinkable that Rooney would be left out of the tournament squad - he basically said they'll be looking forward to getting him back for the second or third game. Why was there no questioning of his place? Why is Terry so confident of being there himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I think Rooney would learn a lot more about consequences if he's selected in the squad and forced to sit on the side for 3 games as Sturridge and Wellbeck form an unbreakable partnership. Then, despite being available, the manager ensure that partnership remains in place all the way to the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If Wellbeck is fighting for an unbreakable partnership for England the fight will be to stay above Wales and the Faroe Islands in FIFA rankings. Overrated doesn't start to describe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If Wellbeck is fighting for an unbreakable partnership for England the fight will be to stay above Wales and the Faroe Islands in FIFA rankings. Overrated doesn't start to describe him. Fine. Insert the names of any two strikers that are capable of forming a partnership for England. Bugger, it's getting tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'm not Capello's biggest fan in the slightest and if the FA decided to sack him tomorrow then I'm all for that. But, the blame lies ultimately with the players and some to extent, the media. Players like Lampard, Downing, Barry, Parker & Cahill are all average at best yet they're regularly being labelled as greats by the likes of the Sky pundits and other people here and there but the bottom line is they're far from it. They're great when you compare them to other 'average' premier league players but when you try and compare them to the likes of the top 4 or 5 players from the likes of Spain, Germany, France, Brazil, Holland, Argentina etc they dont come anywhere near. England are and have been for a while a decent side at best. Never top 8. I'd go as far to say along with the 6 aforementioned teams above, you could well place us below Portugal, Italy & Uruguay. I'd say were more in the bracket of Croatia, Sweden etc trying to get into that 'World Class' bracket. All this :censored: with Rooney I feel is a bit OTT. He's still our best player by some distance and I'd take him to the euros even he was missing for the group stages simply because there is NOONE else to take his spot. If we already had strikers in the Villa, Gomez, Pato, Benzema mould then yeah, leave the bloke at home but we plain and simply haven't. We're not going to win Euro 2012, personally, i'm already looking ahead to the WC2014 qualifiers as a previous poster has already mentioned. That's when I think the 'new' England can start to build from. From that starting line up against Montenegro, only Hart, Jones, Walcott, Young & Rooney will be realistic starters come 2014. In a few years, the likes of Richards, Walker, Smalling, Wilshere, Cleverley, Welbeck and Sturridge will be better players and will certainly bring a lot more to the table than the current crop of :censored:e we have playing at the moment. A starting line up in 2014 of.... GK: Hart RB: Richards CB: Smalling CB: Jones LB: Cole CM: Wilshere CM: Cleverley RW: Walcott LW: Young CF: Rooney ST: Sturridge seems a little more refreshing to watch than the hasbeens and haveneverbeens that currently play now. One big problem we do face however is who can be the next manager? Redknapp perhaps, but I always get the feeling he'd be inclined to pick the old guard a la Terry, Lampard, Rio etc whenever possible as they're all 'World Class' and 'Triffic' players. There really isn't many options out there. Mourinho perhaps? Doubtful though. Whoever it is, the job wont be easy and the media will still continue to big us up after a win and crucify us after a loss. It's a :censored: job at the end of the day that happens to pay very well! Capello is raking it in and lets be honest, the f****r can't commmunicate when being interviewed on tele so how he gets his messages across to the players is beyond me. So if not Mourinho, someone English or even British for me please. Someone who can inject passion into the team. Over to you FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) I'm going the way of Joe. Wayne Rooney isn't Zidane - not by a million miles. We saw first hand what a team of lesser talents can do to a disparate bunch of so-called stars. We should be emulating the German model, not breeding another golden generation of frauds and bluffers. If Capello wants to do us a long-term favour, he should tell Rooney to sling his hook now. No Wayne Rooney isn't Zidane as I said however he is still England best player so he should be in the team no matter how obnoxious he comes across. Interms of the culture of frauds and bluffers well we need to look who has made them that, the media has built them upto be something far better than what they are and the public has rather stupidly bought into it. Suppose next summer a youngster comes of the bench and scores the winning goal against Germany (Hypothetical scenario here because England are nowhere near as good as Germany) The media will suddenly go into hysteria overload and brand them as somekind of hybrid of Stanley Matthews, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Winston Churchill, The Duke of Wellington and Horatio Nelson. So while we are nowhere near as bad as some people make out if we were to win a few games it wouldn't make us anywhere as good either. Perhaps if the England team are going to have a motto to remind them of what representing England means perhaps Keep Calm and Carry on wouldn't be a bad one a sense of perspective seems to be a lost commodity in this day and age Edited October 9, 2011 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 No Wayne Rooney isn't Zidane as I said however he is still England best player so he should be in the team no matter how obnoxious he comes across. You're right - he should be in the team. He isn't because he got himself sent off in a no-pressure situation. And we all know what he's capable of in pressure situations too. In the finals, he's more likely to stamp on someone's bollocks than stick one in from 30 yards. Interms of the culture of frauds and bluffers well we need to look who has made them that, the media has built them upto be something far better than what they are and the public has rather stupidly bought into it. Agree with this. It's been obvious for ages that the players fully buy into this culture though. They might be better off reading fewer newspapers and actually doing the business on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I know he picks up a fair few yellows, and his general attitude isn't always the best, but before his sending off V Montenegro, his last red was in March 2009. He's head and shoulders above any other English player, and to talk of dropping him from the national side is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I know he picks up a fair few yellows, and his general attitude isn't always the best, but before his sending off V Montenegro, his last red was in March 2009. He's head and shoulders above any other English player, and to talk of dropping him from the national side is ridiculous. But how many matches has he played since march 2009? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 But how many matches has he played since march 2009? 78. It is the lunacy when he gets sent off that is breathtaking. Not the frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I was thinking international games only. Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Rooney is top. Dont take him to the euro's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Rooney is top. Dont take him to the euro's? Okay let's take him. He can be our main man when we play the face-saving dead rubber. The nation will rejoice. At least we picked him after all is what they'll say. Anyway it looks like things are moving in my direction. Capello is saying that Rooney will warm the bench in our up-coming friendlies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 And so he should. No point practicing with him if he's going to miss the first three games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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