WIZZO83 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I know we are not a championship club.....look at Huddersfield and even Sheff Weds all struggling with much bigger budgets, I do agree that every 10 years someone can do a blackpool and with no money have an unbelievable season but the norm is its a tough league and you need a huge budget. From my point of you we are a small League 1 club, this is our level and as long as we show passion and drive week in week out and be in the top 12. Eevery couple of years we have a chance of the playoffs, thats our level in my view. If we have spent the whole budget on keeping Baxter I think its a mistake(bold statement i know) but I think we need 4 or 5 new faces not 1..... Did we throw the kitchen sink at Baxter so we can sell him in the summer and make £500k? Thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Are you brad? If so where's my £20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZZO83 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 no im not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlieb Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Are you brad? If so where's my £20 Pmsl I think it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I know we are not a championship club.....look at Huddersfield and even Sheff Weds all struggling with much bigger budgets, I do agree that every 10 years someone can do a blackpool and with no money have an unbelievable season but the norm is its a tough league and you need a huge budget. From my point of you we are a small League 1 club, this is our level and as long as we show passion and drive week in week out and be in the top 12. Eevery couple of years we have a chance of the playoffs, thats our level in my view. If we have spent the whole budget on keeping Baxter I think its a mistake(bold statement i know) but I think we need 4 or 5 new faces not 1..... Did we throw the kitchen sink at Baxter so we can sell him in the summer and make £500k? Thoughts Not sure you need big budgets to go well in this league, Tramps this year, Stevenage last season, Scunny have had two promotions in recent times. Don't think our supporters have any massive expectations, but I don't think it is unreasonable to want to see your team playing attacking football and players giving it everything they've got. I'd rather see us lose a game 3-2 knowing we've had a right go at the oppo rather the endless 0-1, 0-2s we seem to have been involved in for 3 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Have you seen the state of this league? It is :censored:ing :censored:. It's not like 02/03 when we had clubs with big budgets and plenty of cash about with Wigan, QPR, Cardiff and the like. Even last season we lost some clubs with big budgets. This is a poor division and we should be doing much better. If our budget is bottom 6 the club seem to be happy with matching that position in the league table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZZO83 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 My comments on the huge budget were in the contexts of the championship League 1 is a good open league that anyone can win....Budget is a factor but not a huge one, look at Yeovil do well every year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losesome Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I know we are not a championship club.....look at Huddersfield and even Sheff Weds all struggling with much bigger budgets, I do agree that every 10 years someone can do a blackpool and with no money have an unbelievable season but the norm is its a tough league and you need a huge budget. From my point of you we are a small League 1 club, this is our level and as long as we show passion and drive week in week out and be in the top 12. Eevery couple of years we have a chance of the playoffs, thats our level in my view. If we have spent the whole budget on keeping Baxter I think its a mistake(bold statement i know) but I think we need 4 or 5 new faces not 1..... Did we throw the kitchen sink at Baxter so we can sell him in the summer and make £500k? Thoughts Baxter was probably signed on the exttra we got from Forest victory , so just get a draw or a win on Sunday and the extra will help bring in some more new players. easy !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 My comments on the huge budget were in the contexts of the championship League 1 is a good open league that anyone can win....Budget is a factor but not a huge one, look at Yeovil do well every year Sorry brad disagree on Yeovil - last five league finishes were 18th, 17th, 15th, 14th, 17th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZZO83 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 where are they now?? and its Steve They have spent the Liverpool and Forrest money on Baxter! There is nothing left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) You need a manager who can operate on a budget and have his team at the top half of the table consistently. If only we had a manager like that. Ronnie Moore is exactly the type of manager to do this. Look at his progression with Tranmere, when he took over he had them battling for the playoffs and barely missed out in his second season. Now he's returned, sorted out the mess left after he got sacked and has got them at the top of the table, without speding 5p and regardless of whether they fall short, it's a hell of a lot more entertaining than our situation. Look at the the progression he made with us, going from relegation fodder with players like Mark Bonner and Rodney Jack, to playoff contenders with players like Wellens, Porter, Liddell, Eardley and Taylor. So no, you don't necessarily need money to get promoted, but you do need a :censored:ing good manager and the last one we had we binned unjustly and it was the fans who drove him out. We made our bed.... Edited January 25, 2013 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Would argue Sheridan achieved more with less resources - there were some good performances with Moore but plenty of shockers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Some people really need to get over Ronnie Moore. It was 7 years ago, despite revisionism he actually wasn't very good for us, and we were far better the next season under Shez which justified the decision to bin him. Move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Sorry brad disagree on Yeovil - last five league finishes were 18th, 17th, 15th, 14th, 17th. Not bad for a town of 40k people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Would argue Sheridan achieved more with less resources - there were some good performances with Moore but plenty of shockers too. With Moore's team. Don't forget that. Shez brought Pogs back which was good and signed Gregan and Charlton, but the rest of his signings were hardly great (Rocastle, Glombard, Molango, McDonald). Ronnie would have likely signed Beckett, whom alongside Porter might have bagged enough to see us over the hurdle, because as soon as Porter got an injury we went to :censored: and Shez has to take responsibility for not being able to bring in an effective replacement. Where as Moore had brough in Beckett just a couple of seasons before when we had an injury crisis. Don't forget that we were powder puff until Porter returned against Forest. Had we started the season with a recognised goalscorer, even on loan until Porter returned, and had one been brought in around Feb time when Porter got injured, then that season could have turned out differently for us. It was Shez' shortcomings as a new manager that cost us promotion. Now, do I think we'd have got promoted that season had Moore been in charge? I couldn't say. Would Moore have made better decisions when faced with the circumstances Shez faced? Most certainly. Edited January 25, 2013 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Some people really need to get over Ronnie Moore. It was 7 years ago, despite revisionism he actually wasn't very good for us, and we were far better the next season under Shez which justified the decision to bin him. Move on. Yeah, Moore only saved us from relegation and turned us into a playoff contending team in his next season, whilst signing some of the best players the club has had in years. He was proper dog :censored:. Dickov in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 In each league the chances are the richer teams are going to be at the top on average however their will be plenty of examples of people bucking the trend i.e. Tranmere In terms of what we expect well whoever we have in charge 6 defeats out of 7 in the league is unacceptable regardless of circumstances. If we had turned 5 of our 16 defeats so far this season into victories that would push us into the top 10 in fact a top half finish would be seen as somekind of small progress by many certainly enough to dismiss talk of getting rid of the manager. I don't think anyone was seriously expecting a promotion push if you ask Tranmere fans at the start of the season they wouldn't be expecting to be where they are now. In fact talking of Tranmere it will be interesting to see how they finish the season thinking back to 06/07 for us and how we ran out of steam from mid febuary onwards not saying thats going to happen to them what happened to us that year, but it will be interesting to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) With Moore's team. Don't forget that. Shez brought Pogs back which was good and signed Gregan and Charlton, but the rest of his signings were hardly great (Rocastle, Glombard, Molango, McDonald). Ronnie would have likely signed Beckett, whom alongside Porter might have bagged enough to see us over the hurdle, because as soon as Porter got an injury we went to :censored: and Shez has to take responsibility for not being able to bring in an effective replacement. Where as Moore had brough in Beckett just a couple of seasons before when we had an injury crisis. Don't forget that we were powder puff until Porter returned against Forest. Had we started the season with a recognised goalscorer, even on loan until Porter returned, and had one been brought in around Feb time when Porter got injured, then that season could have turned out differently for us. It was Shez' shortcomings as a new manager that cost us promotion. Now, do I think we'd have got promoted that season had Moore been in charge? I couldn't say. Would Moore have made better decisions when faced with the circumstances Shez faced? Most certainly. Think with Beckett it was more a case of us being blown out of the water by Hudders rather than Shez not wanting him, in fact you could probably trace 2006 as the point where TTA starting scaling back investment in the team, bar the odd exception - Gregan, Davies. We did have a slow start but think Shez got manager of month in either October or November so debatable whether or not it cost us promotion. I don't disagree that Moore was/is a good manager, just don't think he was right for us. Edited January 25, 2013 by deyres42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Yeah, Moore only saved us from relegation and turned us into a playoff contending team in his next season, whilst signing some of the best players the club has had in years. He was proper dog :censored:. Dickov in. He wasn't proper dog :censored:. He just wasn't that great. And certainly not the Mourinho-esque revolutionary some are suddenly making him out to be. Edited January 25, 2013 by JonesyOAFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) He wasn't proper dog :censored:. He just wasn't that great. And certainly not the Mourinho-esque revolutionary some are suddenly making him out to be. At this level he's a solid manager and builds fairly solid teams. The 'pinch me' seasons under Royle have spoiled us a little, not that I wouldn't swap them for the world like. Our fans have the zest for free-flowing, barnstorming football with two awesome wingers that pump twenty pin-point crosses in every game. Any manager that doesn't play anywhere remotely like that (Moore, Talbot, Warnock) get dogs abuse when things don't quite go to plan. We're reaping exactly what we've sewn here. Not giving a manger time has just seen us progressively get backwards. Tranmere will go up this season. I could have been us had we not been complete brats about it. I do recall, the football a lot of the time was pretty tepid. I recall plenty of narrow 1-0 and 2-0 wins feeling almost like defeats because if not seeing anything easy on the eye. That said, we churned out a handful of :censored:ing excellent, dominating performances. More than we have this season. Moore was a work in progress. A better signing or two the season after, with Porter fully developed into the goal machine that he became under Shez and I think we may have just gotten over the line. Like someone has said - since 2006 the budget has been scaled back season-on-season. Que sera and all that. It's interesting that Moore is actually proving quite a few of us wrong. Edited January 25, 2013 by Frankly Mr Shankly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 It is all ifs and buts though with Moore. I didnt see anyone complaining when Shez got us into the play offs in the next season. We were unlucky to come up against a Blackpool team that was flying. They were clearly going to beat us and were a much better team, I just wish we had splashed a bit more cash that season. For me, it was Shez's ability to waste talent after that season which has led to where we are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 At this level he's a solid manager and builds fairly solid teams. The 'pinch me' seasons under Royle have spoiled us a little, not that I wouldn't swap them for the world like. Our fans have the zest for free-flowing, barnstorming football with two awesome wingers that pump twenty pin-point crosses in every game. Any manager that doesn't play anywhere remotely like that (Moore, Talbot, Warnock) get dogs abuse when things don't quite go to plan. We're reaping exactly what we've sewn here. Not giving a manger time has just seen us progressively get backwards. Tranmere will go up this season. I could have been us had we not been complete brats about it. And in all honesty, I don't see a problem with that. From a fans perspective, football first and foremost is supposed to be about entertainment (well, it is for me anyway). I've only ever seen us play in this division, so I'm used to mediocrity and haven't got high expectations. I just want to see Latics play, or attempt to play attractive football. Moore had us playing some absolutely dire stuff at times, with a bunch of players who could clearly play good football, as Shez showed the season after. I think the thing that's grinding me about the Moore situation is the people suddenly coming out of the woodwork essentially saying "I told you so". Well, congratulations. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think the thing that's grinding me about the Moore situation is the people suddenly coming out of the woodwork essentially saying "I told you so". Well, congratulations. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You mean the thing that's grinding on you the most is that those people were right? Entertaining football doesn't get you out of this division the right way. Results do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 My two-penneth on Moore... He did well to keep us up and did well to progress us the next season, I would've been happy enough to give him the next season to take us up but I wasn't convinced that he would. Even though he progressed us in the full season he had in charge I couldn't help but feel that it was a disappointing and somewhat wasteful season give the freedom and money he had to build and mold his own squad. The bad signings mostly put in some awful performances (Forbes, Scott, Day and to an extent Butcher) and the very good signings weren't as good as they could've been (Wellens, Liddell, Warne, Gareth Owen(at the time!)) and although Beckett had a great 2nd half of the season his 1st half was very poor. The players who worked well for me were functional players like Branston, Hughes and Edwards, which to me makes it no surprise that Tranmere are doing well with a team of relatively low profile players as that's the type that Moore gets the best out of. But while some of the results felt hollow he at least he got results which is why I'd have kept him on. But to say that Shez cost us promotion and Moore would have got it for us the next season is absolute drivel. For the 1st 7 months of 06/07 Shez got the most out of Moore's highly regarded players and made some very shrewd 1st team signings (some duffers but they generally didn't make a major negative impact). Compare the form of Wellens, Liddell, Warne, Haining, Stam and Porter from Ronnie's season to Shez's. With the partnership Porter and Warne formed Beckett became largely irrelevant too. That's even before talking about the quality of football produced in both seasons. Moore was harshly treated but the next season proved that we weren't wrong to bring Shez in. Not surprised that he's gone on to do well twice at Tranmere but as has been said he wasn't the right fit for us, despite being a good manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) You mean the thing that's grinding on you the most is that those people were right? Entertaining football doesn't get you out of this division the right way. Results do. Well, they weren't. We sacked Moore, and got into the play-offs playing better football the season after. I'm not sure how that constitutes them being right? My hindsight comment was regarding the fact that those people somehow feel the blame for us being where we are now is down to those who wanted Moore out, which is complete and utter bollocks. There was nothing to suggest from that season that Moore would've taken us up at any point. Edited January 26, 2013 by JonesyOAFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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