this made me chuckle

[leeslover]

I'm not sure if Roman is exactly happy to be here full-time. If you take a look at those oligarchs who are in exile, by and large it tends to be the Jewish ones. So, too, those who have been locked up within Russia. I remember reading somewhere that there's a saying popular amongst Russian Jews that goes something to the effect of when Russians start getting nationalistic, the Jew packs his suitcase. Chelsea can probably count themselves lucky that the current mood in Russia seems set to last.

Well, pogroms are as pogroms do. So far as we can tell it looks like Roman has made his peace with Putin - for all we know he might still be a big player inside Russia to this day, I doubt the Sunday Times Rich List knows every pie he has a finger in. What is for sure is that Russians flashing the cash has contributed hugely to the luxury property market in London, and they ain't all of the Hebrew persuasion.

[Corporal_Jones]

Well, pogroms are as pogroms do. So far as we can tell it looks like Roman has made his peace with Putin - for all we know he might still be a big player inside Russia to this day, I doubt the Sunday Times Rich List knows every pie he has a finger in. What is for sure is that Russians flashing the cash has contributed hugely to the luxury property market in London, and they ain't all of the Hebrew persuasion.

 

 

 

Although rich, they're not oligarchs, though. Abramovich is far too high-profile for Putin and co. to be able to touch him. He's actually done what Shinawatra may have been seeking to do with regard to Thai politics.

[leeslover]

Although rich, they're not oligarchs, though. Abramovich is far too high-profile for Putin and co. to be able to touch him. He's actually done what Shinawatra may have been seeking to do with regard to Thai politics.

I agree

 

I always felt that a lot of Mr A's objective was to make him too well known a figure in the West for Putin to be willing to close him down. However, the sale of Putin's business back to the Russian Government (more or less) must have greased as many palms as it did him getting it in the first place, so everyone's a winner. Almost. Although I don't think Abramovich has any desire to be the next Czar. I doubt he could live with the pay cut.

[rudemedic]

I guess he has achieved his stated objectives, but that's not to say they were his real objectives. IIRC correctly he paid £60m for :censored:ty and if rumour be true sold them for £150m. Good business in my eyes, especially when you are down to your last £80m with the rest tied up overseas...

 

I spoke to my Dad about this on Tuesday and he had a theory that Shinawatra (sp?) is going to use this money and disappear (and i can see his logic). With a bit of plastic surgery and a new passport he could go almost anywhere in the world and the Thai authorities couldn't do much about it. Even if he thinks he his in danger of getting caught he can do the same again. £150 million and being in hiding may not keep him in the luxury him and his wife are used to but it will be a lot better than being in Thai prision/dead. If you saw him in street in England you might suspect that was who he was but in places like the States (who don't keep up with news outside their own borders) or Africa (where keeping up with world news isn't easy- especially knowing what people look like as radio is often the best source) so don't have much of a clue about his actions he'd be able to hide quite easily. I'm not saying he is guilty but I don't think he is all that innocent either and he could be worried about the fairness of his trial if he is in Thailand.

[footy68]

I'm not particularly defending him. All I've said is that, while many people expected the worst when he took over City, he's left them in the a situation better than in their wildest dreams (at least if they want to seriously compete), and chose to leave the scene, or at least the limelight, when he could have chosen to cling on and do it all alone, possibly leading the club into very choppy waters indeed.

 

The most I did to 'defend' him was to point out that he was not a dictator but elected by the Thai people. Whether I would have voted for him had I been living there and had the vote is a different matter altogether. (But then if I were, I'd be somebody else entirely...)

 

Ok, so by that, I guess Father Christmas over at DL did fine by Chelsea? I mean they were only 100+million in debt, but he brought in Abramovich. I know Frankie didn't have Citeh in debt, but a deal like that was quite possibly on the cards anyway.

[help_shiny]

Ok, so by that, I guess Father Christmas over at DL did fine by Chelsea? I mean they were only 100+million in debt, but he brought in Abramovich. I know Frankie didn't have Citeh in debt, but a deal like that was quite possibly on the cards anyway.

 

 

got to agree there, it's not as if benevolent Uncle Thaksin planned to leave City in this situation. They got lucky, as did Chelsea - snaffled up by billionaires when they were both on the financial precipice. We can't win 'em all though, at least I got to see Leeds implode.

[oafcprozac]

got to agree there, it's not as if benevolent Uncle Thaksin planned to leave City in this situation. They got lucky, as did Chelsea - snaffled up by billionaires when they were both on the financial precipice. We can't win 'em all though, at least I got to see Leeds implode.

 

The state of modern day top-flight football became all too clear during Everton's EGM the other night. Apparently we have moved away from needing millionaire benefactor's, Bill Kenwright in all seriousness has stated that in order for Everton to crack the top four of the Greedy League they need a billionaire! Frightening, just what does the future hold for the more prudent Arsenal and Liverpool, imo their days in the top four are numbered. The top four is now a top three, consisting of City, United and Chelsea the others are forever to play catch-up the playing field field has become foothills for 17 clubs whilst the other three scale the summit. Absolute madness and the end of a COMPETITIVE top-flight in English football.

[help_shiny]

The state of modern day top-flight football became all too clear during Everton's EGM the other night. Apparently we have moved away from needing millionaire benefactor's, Bill Kenwright in all seriousness has stated that in order for Everton to crack the top four of the Greedy League they need a billionaire! Frightening, just what does the future hold for the more prudent Arsenal and Liverpool, imo their days in the top four are numbered. The top four is now a top three, consisting of City, United and Chelsea the others are forever to play catch-up the playing field field has become foothills for 17 clubs whilst the other three scale the summit. Absolute madness and the end of a COMPETITIVE top-flight in English football.

 

yep you're right. The writing on the wall has been there for a good many years now and while this isnt the final nail in the coffin it's pretty close.

I have turned on, tuned in and dropped out. The last month or so has seen an ephiphany - I've cancelled Sky Sports, am locked in legal battle with the utter thieves from Setanta to extract myself from their grip and one game into my latest Englandfans membership I've realised I cant be arsed going anymore.

It's still possible - not that the PL would have you know it - to be a football fan through and through and no longer give a fig for their circus.

[bigfatjoe1]

Erm - they are wankers? Their club has been through ups and downs like many others but they think they are special. They finished in the middle of the Premier League last season and they still think they are the greatest fans because of their loyalty, they laughed when the Redd Soxx became the Redd Soxx but rejoiced when a dodgy dictator bought them, and now are gloating because they have become a trinket of a symbol collector.

 

Laugh? I nearly shat on their faces.

 

Man after my own heart! I never liked :censored:y, but after the Good Friday riot and many other games, you realised what a total bunch of :censored:s city fans are. I'm not defending Unted, but some of the chants and abuse given by :censored:y fans is quite sick.

 

They are absoulte :censored:s.

[leeslover]

The top four is now a top three, consisting of City, United and Chelsea

I'm surprised at a statto like you getting it so wrong Prozac - according to my internet search engine City are a top nine side, and I'll believe the contrary when I see it.

[oafcprozac]

I'm surprised at a statto like you getting it so wrong Prozac - according to my internet search engine City are a top nine side, and I'll believe the contrary when I see it.

 

Financially Andy, didn't mean in footballing terms. If i'm honest I think no matter who they sign come January it'll come too late for them to force into the Chumps League. I'd expect them to be top 6-8. As for winning the League next season, no chance. As I've said before, Chelsea had the foundations to build on, City haven't even started demolishing the old building. Very confident this will go tits up, afterall it's Citeh innit!

[leeslover]

Financially Andy, didn't mean in footballing terms. If i'm honest I think no matter who they sign come January it'll come too late for them to force into the Chumps League. I'd expect them to be top 6-8. As for winning the League next season, no chance. As I've said before, Chelsea had the foundations to build on, City haven't even started demolishing the old building. Very confident this will go tits up, afterall it's Citeh innit!

Indeed it is! It's been a great source of comfort to me to see the Keegan/Newcastle thing go the only way it could ever possibly have gone - some things ARE just set in stone. And you are quite right, Chelsea were knocking on the door of where they are now before Abramovich came in. I reckon the biggest beneficiaries of the City thing will be clubs selling not quite good enough players to them for 3 times their value and then getting them back on a free a year later.

[ThaiLatic]

And? Anybody can have an opinion on Shinawatra, but nobody can say that he didn't do right by City in the end, which is what we're discussing here.

 

Nor can anybody dispute that he was president because the Thai people elected him and deposed in a military coup by people who were not elected.

 

 

It's interesting in a thread when you are questioning others knowledge of Thai politics that you refer to Wacky Tacky as PRESIDENT. He was in fact PRIME MINISTER. Thailand is not a republic.

[Matt]

...he's left them in the a situation better than in their wildest dreams....

If a corpse washes up in France, one can hardly credit it with swimming the channel...

[Corporal_Jones]

got to agree there, it's not as if benevolent Uncle Thaksin planned to leave City in this situation. They got lucky, as did Chelsea - snaffled up by billionaires when they were both on the financial precipice. We can't win 'em all though, at least I got to see Leeds implode.

 

 

 

 

As far as can be discerned, Shinawatra actively sought out new investment when it became clear that he was not going to get his assets in Thailand unfrozen and that his failure to return to Thailand, obviously planned in advance should things not go his way in the trial, would drag City into disrepute. There was plenty of media speculation about him selling up or taking a back seat in the weeks prior to the deal with the Arabs.

[Corporal_Jones]

It's interesting in a thread when you are questioning others knowledge of Thai politics that you refer to Wacky Tacky as PRESIDENT. He was in fact PRIME MINISTER. Thailand is not a republic.

 

 

 

I hold my hands up, as I did wonder about that, actually, but was too lazy to check.

 

However, you don't need to know anything much about the structure of the Thai government to know that Shinawatra was the elected leader of the country and not a dictator. (How he might have behaved while in office is a seperate matter.)

Edited September 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

Indeed it is! It's been a great source of comfort to me to see the Keegan/Newcastle thing go the only way it could ever possibly have gone - some things ARE just set in stone. And you are quite right, Chelsea were knocking on the door of where they are now before Abramovich came in. I reckon the biggest beneficiaries of the City thing will be clubs selling not quite good enough players to them for 3 times their value and then getting them back on a free a year later.

 

 

 

This is short-sighted. City had the basis of a good team even before Hughes made the pre-takeover signings, none of whom are exactly second-rate. Last season the problem seemed to be in lack of motivation under Sven, which is less likely to be a problem under the very different Hughes, as well as the fact that the team were largely strangers to each other.

 

City also have what is possibly the best youth academy in the country.

 

As for buying over the odds-I can't see the kind of people in charge behind the scenes and a character like Hughes being taken for fools, somehow.

 

The main issue here isn't only about City, but the effect it will have on other clubs. This deal does, I fear, open the floodgates for more Arab and, possibly, Chinese money flowing into the Premier League, thus widening the gap between it and the rest yet further, if that were possible (it is), exacerbating all the attendent problems for the lower levels of the game.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[ThaiLatic]

I hold my hands up, as I did wonder about that, actually, but was too lazy to check.

 

However, you don't need to know anything much about the structure of the Thai government to know that Shinawatra was the elected leader of the country and not a dictator. (How he might have behaved while in office is a seperate matter.)

 

 

Fair play, CJ. However, you DO need to know everything about Thai culture, it's history and it's people to have any grasp on Thai politics. I've been here nearly 12 years, I speak Thai, I can read and write Thai and my social circle is made up almost exclusively of Thais - I'm even married to one ;) - and I'm still learning about this fascinating country.

 

If you are genuinely interested in learning more (about Tacky or Thailand) there are a couple of good books I could recommend. I wiould also just like to add that the first thing you have to do when trying to understand Thailand is that everything western culture teaches you needs to be left at the airport!! And I include the west's understanding of democracy in that ;)

[Corporal_Jones]

Man after my own heart! I never liked :censored:y, but after the Good Friday riot and many other games, you realised what a total bunch of :censored:s city fans are. I'm not defending Unted, but some of the chants and abuse given by :censored:y fans is quite sick.

 

They are absoulte :censored:s.

 

 

 

This is a stupid way of looking at a club. After all, what must fans of other clubs think when encountering our own little bunch of sieg-heiling, 'no surrender' monkeys, or the coin throwers of the RRE bigging themsleves up to the mighty Morecambe?

 

In my experience, the average City fan is fairly benign and tends to wish OAFC well. A former colleague of mine, a Millwall fan, is one of the nicest, most knowledgeable fans I've ever known, and a million miles away from the image most have of his club.

[Corporal_Jones]

Fair play, CJ. However, you DO need to know everything about Thai culture, it's history and it's people to have any grasp on Thai politics. I've been here nearly 12 years, I speak Thai, I can read and write Thai and my social circle is made up almost exclusively of Thais - I'm even married to one ;) - and I'm still learning about this fascinating country.

 

If you are genuinely interested in learning more (about Tacky or Thailand) there are a couple of good books I could recommend. I wiould also just like to add that the first thing you have to do when trying to understand Thailand is that everything western culture teaches you needs to be left at the airport!! And I include the west's understanding of democracy in that ;)

 

 

 

Thanks, TL. Recommend away.

 

The non-western aspect of the situation is what I've been trying to stress in recent days. People here do generally try to project western standards and norms onto it.

[Corporal_Jones]

Absolute madness and the end of a COMPETITIVE top-flight in English football.

 

 

 

Hence the plans to end promotion and relegation to it.

[ThaiLatic]

Thanks, TL. Recommend away.

 

The non-western aspect of the situation is what I've been trying to stress in recent days. People here do generally try to project western standards and norms onto it.

 

Inside Thai Society by Niels Mulder

 

The Th*ksinisation of Thailand by Duncan McCargo & Ukrist Pathmanand ( a fairly balanced and well researched view written before the coup)

 

However, as good as these books are, there's no real substitute for actually living here

 

Right, I'm off to immerse myself further in Thai culture by watching "Midsomer Murders" on Hallmark ;)

[bigfatjoe1]

This is a stupid way of looking at a club. After all, what must fans of other clubs think when encountering our own little bunch of sieg-heiling, 'no surrender' monkeys, or the coin throwers of the RRE bigging themsleves up to the mighty Morecambe?

 

In my experience, the average City fan is fairly benign and tends to wish OAFC well. A former colleague of mine, a Millwall fan, is one of the nicest, most knowledgeable fans I've ever known, and a million miles away from the image most have of his club.

 

 

Then your experience is limited. As usual CJ anyone who expresses an opinion based on personal experience and 'its stupid.' Everyone is wrong. You're right. Who gives a toss about Millwall. One Millwall fan. Oh well, then every city fan is a great guy. What planet are you on? No one mentioned them. Were you there on the several occassions that city fans came to Oldham and kicked the :censored: out of everyone that moved? Not once but several times. Very benign. And oh those lovely ditties they sing about, er, what do they call them? Munichs. How benign to call a set of fans after one of the most appalling disasters in the history of football. I grew up around them, experienced what many are really like and can't stand them.

 

You can be a self-opinionated, self-righteous arse at times.

[OldhamSheridan]

Then your experience is limited. As usual CJ anyone who expresses an opinion based on personal experience and 'its stupid.' Everyone is wrong. You're right. Who gives a toss about Millwall. One Millwall fan. Oh well, then every city fan is a great guy. What planet are you on? No one mentioned them. Were you there on the several occassions that city fans came to Oldham and kicked the :censored: out of everyone that moved? Not once but several times. Very benign. And oh those lovely ditties they sing about, er, what do they call them? Munichs. How benign to call a set of fans after one of the most appalling disasters in the history of football. I grew up around them, experienced what many are really like and can't stand them.

 

You can be a self-opinionated, self-righteous arse at times.

 

Self-opinionated, self-righteous arse he may well be. But he's right on this one.

 

There are good and bad fans of every club. Some have more than others. We have bad experiences with some clubs as we have met their less salubrious types. Others we quite like as we have met their nicer types.

 

Knowing a hell of a lot of City fans, I find they are neither great nor poor on this aspect. They are not "total bunch of :censored:s". Some are, some aren't.

 

As for the Munichs, that is football. Fans say nasty things of their rival teams (see United and Liverpool)

[help_shiny]

There are plenty of City fans who are decent human beings, I've even met some of them. I still dislike the part of them that supports that lot. Dealing in generalities - I wish them all nothing but misery. Football innit.

There are plenty of nice people who support every single team, that doesnt mean that we cant let off bile surely? I'm all for peace and love but if you are no longer allowed to indiscriminately slag off a whole clubs support without being ticked off then I say keep your game and what it has become! I also happen to be good friends with a Millwall fan for example - it doesnt stop me observing that they're scum. As are City (obviously I'm not close friends with any of them - I'm not that twisted). There is a friend of the family who is a City season ticket holder, I cannot even discuss football with him as his team and allegience sicken me. A similar thing with my ManU supporting brother in law. Another brother in law is a Leeds fan, I can barely look at him if he even mentions them.

Irrational? Stupid? Maybe, but that's football. I'm not knocking 100 years of tribalism on the head for anybody.If we all wanted everything sanitised to the nth degree we'd be bloody rugby fans. City, for me, mean all the big mouthed nasty Mancs I used to come across when we played them back in the days of yore - no amount of meeting normal ones is ever going to change that. 99% of these normal ones are good folk but that 1% of their personality................I speeeeeeet on you!

Hope it all goes tragically wrong for them so I can dance around in a frenzy of schadenfreude.