dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) It is of my opinion that Royle isnt the right man to take us where we want to be and it seems as though some Latics fans are living in the past. Its hard to criticise Joe too much but it seems as though we wont be going anywhere for a long while, combined with other factors such as a reduced budget and players that are already not good enough. We need fresh ideas from someone who is young, hungry and ambitious, Keith Hill, Jim Gannon... as if we do apoint Joe it wont be long term- where does that leave us?- in the same position. Im not going to say i wasnt pleased with Joes arrival i was chuffed at the beginning but i saw even after just the first game that it wont work. From the moment the tannoy kept rolling out the scenes from 89 i thought its going to be a massive let down and it has been- i would go as far as saying Shez would have got us a much better return. Players are still deflated i think and know for a fact that some players e.g. Taylor loved Shez- although it seemed morale had gone i think sacking him actually made it worse- and ill be the first to say i wanted Shez out. So where do we go from here- we will appoint Joe and combined with other factors what will next season bring? - reduced budget- poor players- how many from Ipswich remains a mystery but i say at least 3/4- Westlake, Supple.. - increased season ticket prices- people wont buy them, and why would they having whitnessed this seasons disaster - player clearout- we basically start again- no established team bonding- look what happened when we signed Ricketts etc- that season it was evident that we couldnt just build a team of new players only - players arnt good enough- it worries me that Royle rates people like Wolfenden- does anyone think hes better than anywhere but Macclesfield? players like Westlake are average at best yet well sign them, loans are no better than what we have yet we play them for example we have Fleming yet choose to play Supple when we have nothing to play for- why? Overall next season will be no different from any other- mid table at best- lets save Joes reputation, which is legendary status and appoint someone else on a long term deal Edited April 15, 2009 by dean 1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 We really don't know what it'll be like under Joe under next season when he builds his own team. At the moment our team is relegation standard, the team we are currently fielding would be in a relegation scrap had it not been for our start to the season. It's down to Joe to bring in some quality and to build his own team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 We really don't know what it'll be like under Joe under next season when he builds his own team. At the moment our team is relegation standard, the team we are currently fielding would be in a relegation scrap had it not been for our start to the season. It's down to Joe to bring in some quality and to build his own team. Quality like Ian Westlake?- time will tell but i think its going to end up even worse next season. I obviously hope im wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Joe Royle is a ledgend at Latics for a very good reason and people should never forget it, people need to remember we are a long way away from where we were then not just ourselves the game in general, how many sides of a similar size to ourselves have got in Championship without the funding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Joe Royle is a ledgend at Latics for a very good reason and people should never forget it, people need to remember we are a long way away from where we were then not just ourselves the game in general, how many sides of a similar size to ourselves have got in Championship without the funding? Recently- Southend, Colchester, Scunny, (Barnsley, Blackpool) hardly any funding, the example of Scunny is that they have taken a risk on players people have never heard of, its paid off. Royle is a legend but in this spell he may end up being remembered as a failure which isnt what we want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Scunny forked out 6 figures for Gary Hooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Scunny forked out 6 figures for Gary Hooper. Im on about when they went up a couple of seasons ago... however we forked out 250k on allan smart look where he got us... Edited April 15, 2009 by dean 1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Scunny forked out 6 figures for Gary Hooper. In fairness to dean though, how much did they receive for the combined services of Billy Sharp and Andy Keogh? Obviously didnt waste that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I can't think of anybody better than Joe Royle who would take the job. He's got cups, promotions and European football in his managerial locker. He's won and lost relegation battles. He's taken a near bankrupt club in to the play-offs twice (Ipswich) not that long ago. He's already made it clear he'll take no nonsense from players off the pitch and I have faith that things will improve on it too. Worried about relying on youth? Look no further than Peterborough. A great manager with promising youngsters is a fantastic combination. Joe Royle is a very relevant football manager. Edited April 15, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Recently- Southend, Colchester, Scunny, (Barnsley, Blackpool) hardly any funding, the example of Scunny is that they have taken a risk on players people have never heard of, its paid off. Royle is a legend but in this spell he may end up being remembered as a failure which isnt what we want the only hope in that is Blackpool as most of the players they had that season were loanees, Barnsley had more funding than you may think players like Nardiello and Chris Shuker didnt come cheap, the rest couldnt compete with the budgets of the larger clubs up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Actually Dean we could very well be in 1989 as that season (88/89) was a very disappointing season and a lot of people thought we were going to be in for a relegation battle in 89/90...look how that turned out. Btw I'm certainly not saying that will happen again. This season has been so disappointing that it is understandable and right to question where things are going/what will happen next season, but a week is a long time in football (so 4 months is a huge amount of time). I just hope that strategically the club look at things and really try and create the right structure, messages and understand that it is in their power to look forward and seize the opportunity to becoming a driving force in the town. And just to be properly pendant...the tannoy stuff was 1991! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I can't think of anybody better than Joe Royle who would take the job. He's got cups, promotions and European football in his managerial locker. He's won and lost relegation battles. He's taken a near bankrupt club in to the play-offs twice (Ipswich) not that long ago. He's already made it clear he'll take no nonsense from players off the pitch and I have faith that things will improve on it too. Worried about relying on youth? Look no further than Peterborough. A great manager with promising youngsters is a fantastic combination. Joe Royle is a very relevant football manager. They spent 260,000 on Boyd 150,000 on Maclean 100,000 on Mackail Smith- the main 3 players that have got them promotion have cost them 500,000- their wages wont be massive yet, they have won them promotion at a reasonable cost, which will be returned in revenue in the championship. Jason Scotland cost Swansea about 60,000 2 years ago he has scored them 45 goals in 2 seasons My point is we never sign these sort of players we end up with ricketts on a free, kabba, windass, constantine, ormerod on loan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) They spent 260,000 on Boyd 150,000 on Maclean 100,000 on Mackail Smith- the main 3 players that have got them promotion have cost them 500,000- their wages wont be massive yet, they have won them promotion at a reasonable cost, which will be returned in revenue in the championship. Jason Scotland cost Swansea about 60,000 2 years ago he has scored them 45 goals in 2 seasons My point is we never sign these sort of players we end up with ricketts on a free, kabba, windass, constantine, ormerod on loan How much did Latics pay for Porter or Hughes? Dirt cheap but know where the net is. The free Ricketts who has returned to BP with Walsall has been terrific (tit though he was when here). It's not about transfer fees anyway. In the post-Bosman world it's who you can pick up on a free and what you're prepared to put in their paypacket. I could be wrong but I'd guess the likes of Gregan, Maher and Liddell cost close to £500k a year. Decent players but not able to drive us to promotion, despite the £££s invested. Before he signed his new contract, thinking on these remarkably reliable boards suggested that Taylor cost £40k a year or less in wages. Youth or Experience. Big money transfers or free transfers? Big wages or on the cheap wages? It's a tough balance to get right, but a manager of the calibre of Joe Royle is as good as anybody I can think of to do the job. Edited April 15, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 How much did Latics pay for Porter or Hughes? Dirt cheap but know where the net is. The free Ricketts who has returned to BP with Walsall has been terrific (tit though he was when here). It's not about transfer fees anyway. In the post-Bosman world it's who you can pick up on a free and what you're prepared to put in their paypacket. I could be wrong but I'd guess the likes of Gregan, Maher and Liddell cost close to £500k a year. Decent players but not able to drive us to promotion, despite the £££s invested. Before he signed his new contract, thinking on these remarkably reliable boards suggested that Taylor cost £40k a year or less in wages. Youth or Experience. Big money transfers or free transfers? Big wages or on the cheap wages? It's a tough balance to get right, but a manager of the calibre of Joe Royle is as good as anybody I can think of to do the job. Thats a fair point but i was only highlighting that the players that get teams out of this league arnt that dear and the return on investment in terms of transfer fees and promotion is much more valuable than the initial investment. If the TTA are serious about promotion they will have to give a decent transfer budget instead reducing it. Its a 2 way scenario though invest and get a good return i.e. promotion or cut a budget, see reductions in attendances, which they will complain about= league 1 forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Thats a fair point but i was only highlighting that the players that get teams out of this league arnt that dear and the return on investment in terms of transfer fees and promotion is much more valuable than the initial investment. If the TTA are serious about promotion they will have to give a decent transfer budget instead reducing it. Its a 2 way scenario though invest and get a good return i.e. promotion or cut a budget, see reductions in attendances, which they will complain about= league 1 forever I suppose it's easy to say Dean when it's not your money being thrown down what looks like a vortex. Being businessmen, naturally they'll want to see a return on investment. This season they did invest, which showed by bringing the likes of Windass, Byfield, Kabba and Ormerod on loan, when we already had strikers like O'Grady, Davies and the homegrowns here anyway. It backfired spectacularly but the investment was there, albeit in loan deals. I think next season will see a lot of fairly low budgets in the division, and can foresee another tight affair where many teams will be capable of beating eachother. I would assume from TTA's POV that they could reduce the budget a little and yet still compete with the right manager on board. The even bigger question is will fans actually display a level of patience for the new guy, whoever it may be? Or will we all be sniping and bitching after a couple more defeats early in the campaign? I think this actually gets me down more than seeing us lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean 1984 Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I suppose it's easy to say Dean when it's not your money being thrown down what looks like a vortex. Being businessmen, naturally they'll want to see a return on investment. This season they did invest, which showed by bringing the likes of Windass, Byfield, Kabba and Ormerod on loan, when we already had strikers like O'Grady, Davies and the homegrowns here anyway. It backfired spectacularly but the investment was there, albeit in loan deals. I think next season will see a lot of fairly low budgets in the division, and can foresee another tight affair where many teams will be capable of beating eachother. I would assume from TTA's POV that they could reduce the budget a little and yet still compete with the right manager on board. The even bigger question is will fans actually display a level of patience for the new guy, whoever it may be? Or will we all be sniping and bitching after a couple more defeats early in the campaign? I think this actually gets me down more than seeing us lose. not my football club they chose to buy it of which im grateful but i can only dream of having someone like Wardle who will get us promotion exactly they are terrible players wasting money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 exactly they are terrible players wasting money.. That's 20/20 hindsight though isn't it? They've taken the gamble you've asked for on players (Windass especially) who have a higher level pedigree and are on a bucket full of money and it doesn't work out. You can't complain they've not gambled by saying their gamble didn't work out. That's a paradoxical argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 having someone like Wardle who will get us promotion Hindsight and mystic meg predictions in one post...come on Dean your earlier post had some valid points but saying Wardle will get us promotion??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 TTA have always had the ambition to get the club promoted. They have backed every manager with funds to do the job. We have held onto our most important players during the season and brought players in to strengthen the squad. Its not their fault the players weren't upto scratch. As a club we have to be sensible, chase the dream but not at a cost that turns it into a nightmare like when Chris Moore was around! Throwing money at it may cause us more problems in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 That's 20/20 hindsight though isn't it? They've taken the gamble you've asked for on players (Windass especially) who have a higher level pedigree and are on a bucket full of money and it doesn't work out. You can't complain they've not gambled by saying their gamble didn't work out. That's a paradoxical argument. Correct....TTA have thrown millions at it since they arrived and we can't complain at all about a lack of funds. The one thing they haven't got right is their choice of manager and that is the real reason for our lack of success. I think Joe is going to be the right man for the job and maybe, just maybe, we will have a little success at last, however, if we fail again, I dread to think of the consequences!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I haven't been on the site too long but I've already grown tired of a lot of posts that point out problems without providing a possible solution. If not Joe then who are we gonna get that isn't going to move onto bigger and better ventures after some success? We moan about lack of loyalty but lets be honest, we're not much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Blue Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Joe has spoken more sense in the weeks about the squad hes been back than Sheridan ever did. If Joe has the job next season and the summer to get 'his own' people in i'd be more than happy to get another season ticket and would look forward to the new season than i ever did with JS in. We were going down hill fast long before Joe came back. In Joe i trust!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Let's face facts. We're a third division club, who play in a run-down 3-sided stadium, in a northern town less interested in watching live professional sport than it has been for many years. I'm not going to blame the Oldham public for this. Mistakes were made years ago by the previous incumbents at the club in terms of ambition and investment and TTA are now feeling the weight of this. Let's hope they keep the faith better than most on this board. Remove Joe's past assocation with the club from the equation and we're clearly punching above our weight in terms of the standard of manager we currently have at the helm. He's here because of goodwill and a desire to be a success again in the game that has inexplicably turned it's back on him for the last 3 years. 1989 or 2009, I cannot think of anybody more qualified to put the smile back on the faces of the dwindling few and reverse our fortunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Let's face facts. We're a third division club, who play in a run-down 3-sided stadium, in a northern town less interested in watching live professional sport than it has been for many years. I'm not going to blame the Oldham public for this. Mistakes were made years ago by the previous incumbents at the club in terms of ambition and investment and TTA are now feeling the weight of this. Let's hope they keep the faith better than most on this board. Remove Joe's past assocation with the club from the equation and we're clearly punching above our weight in terms of the standard of manager we currently have at the helm. He's here because of goodwill and a desire to be a success again in the game that has inexplicably turned it's back on him for the last 3 years. 1989 or 2009, I cannot think of anybody more qualified to put the smile back on the faces of the dwindling few and reverse our fortunes. Absolutely spot on............Well said!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 It is of my opinion that Royle isnt the right man to take us where we want to be and it seems as though some Latics fans are living in the past. haven't read the rest of the thread but, without the history between Joe Royle and Oldham Athletic there is no way we would have any chance whatsoever of a manager of his calibre & track record at the helm next season. forget what he did with us - look at what he's done everywhere else since - success is very likely, entertaining football is guaranteed. we CANNOT attract any other manager of this quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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