Corporal_Jones Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 So this is us, we've found our level. After significant recent investment, more than many other 'smaller' clubs who've leapfrogged us, we've accepted defeat. We've settled at the lowest level and standard the club has been at in my lifetime. And because of that it just doesn't do it for me anymore. E4e CHORE That's how it's felt for me since the pathetic surrender of 2006-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) I don't have a problem with people being negative all the time. I'm as disillusioned as i've ever been with things at the club but I guess I will be there next season and the season after and the season after that, all in the blind hope we will eventually get out of this god awful division. The thing i don't like about the non stop moaning you get from some on here is that they don't actually offer any solutions to the clubs problems. It's all well and good copy and pasting the same argument and gripes into every post you make, but how about suggesting a way forward. We, the owtb posters, are a big part of the hardcore of support that keeps the club alive and what are we doing exactly to move the club forward? We have non stop moaning about the club stagnating (and it is) but I see very little action to actually change it. What's even more repetitive than the moaning is the accusation that the moaners offer no solutions. How can we? We're paying spectators, that's all, with no power over club matters. As I said earlier, and received no answer, we pay on the gate, we get behind the team (some of us do anyway). What else could or should we be doing? Edited April 19, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 What's even more repetitive than the moaning is the accusation that the moaners offer no solutions. How can we? We're paying spectators, that's all, with no power over club matters. As I said earlier, and received no answer, we pay on the gate, we get behind the team (some of us do anyway). What else could or should we be doing? You seriously think you can't make any difference to the club other than by going to the games? Why do so many teams have supporters clubs, some even own their own club. If you wanted to you could offer your services to the trust or the supporters club and if your ideas were good enough people would get behind them and you. Shall we do away with democracy while we're at it, I mean what can one single voice do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 You seriously think you can't make any difference to the club other than by going to the games? Why do so many teams have supporters clubs, some even own their own club. If you wanted to you could offer your services to the trust or the supporters club and if your ideas were good enough people would get behind them and you. Shall we do away with democracy while we're at it, I mean what can one single voice do? Supporters trusts tend to get ownership of the clubs that nobody with serious money (or any money) will touch with a bargepole. And it's no solution, unless you think that the examples of Stockport County and Bornemouth, two clubs of which at least one's very existence is threatened, are the way forward. In any case, since when was it the role of the paying supporter, every one of which will have pressing problems of their own, to come up with solutions when any club not only has a board of directors to guide it but pays employees to do this too, and pays them well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Supporters trusts tend to get ownership of the clubs that nobody with serious money (or any money) will touch with a bargepole. And it's no solution, unless you think that the examples of Stockport County and Bornemouth, two clubs of which at least one's very existence is threatened, are the way forward. In any case, since when was it the role of the paying supporter, every one of which will have pressing problems of their own, to come up with solutions when any club not only has a board of directors to guide it but pays employees to do this too, and pays them well. I'm not sayin we should be looking to buy the club, it rarely if ever works, but what i am saying is that if we wanted we could increase our influence in the through the trust. There is no point moaning constantly about things and doing nothing whatsoever to change it. I agree it isn't our job to get the club moving forward and there are people who should look at themselves and the job they are doing, because for the most part it isn't good enough. However, if you feel strongly enough to come on here day in day out moaning about the same problems, maybe it is time we as the hardcore Oldham supporters stepped in and did something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) I'm not sayin we should be looking to buy the club, it rarely if ever works, but what i am saying is that if we wanted we could increase our influence in the through the trust. There is no point moaning constantly about things and doing nothing whatsoever to change it. I agree it isn't our job to get the club moving forward and there are people who should look at themselves and the job they are doing, because for the most part it isn't good enough. However, if you feel strongly enough to come on here day in day out moaning about the same problems, maybe it is time we as the hardcore Oldham supporters stepped in and did something about it. To their great honour, small groups of supporters, some of whom, it seems, still post on here from time to time, did exactly that. Stand up all those who were involved in Stop the Rot, SAFE, Trust Oldham. They are all, in their own way, heroes in the history of OAFC. However, the club once again finds itself adrift. Edited April 19, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 To their great honour, small groups of supporters, some of whom, it seems, still post on here from time to time, did exactly that. Stand up all those who were involved in Stop the Rot, SAFE, Trust Oldham. They are all, in their own way, heroes in the history of OAFC. However, the club once again finds itself adrift. I'm depressed about the club and rarely go but I can't agree it is adrift. That is disrespectful to the owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsleOfWightBlue Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 IF we had wone the majority of the last 10 games and been looking forward to the play offs or promotion then this thread of course would be so different and it would all be one long buzz of praise... Instead because we havent its full of moans and blame for the position is being thrown around all over. Excuse me but didnt we just take back JR.....is he not trying players out and in the very early days of restructuring the playing side.....Did you expect a magic wand? Did you think you would wake up the day after the morning of the Tranmere game and think ''great thats promotion assured'' I am sorry but several of you including Corporal seem to have amnesia ....with regard to gate sof 18-20,000 I do belive that was in the premiership days .....as far as I recall the gates when we were old Div2 were around 11/12000.....you have to go back to the late 50s when football was an inexpensive pastime for the working masses to see the gates on a regular basis Corporal was talking about. We are in a transitional period we have a new Manager and players will come and go....there is no quick fix solution. I do not believe Corney and co are about to jump ship and I do believe that with JR in command we will see a return to the kind of football we used to enjoy. Anyone who thinks there have not been worst times in our history than now needs to read the club history a bit more. Can we get back to the Championship - Of course we can, we are in a better postition thena many clubs. The way people talk you would think we had been relegated. The poor run of results lead to Shezzes sacking and the appointment of a new Manager. This manager has his own idea and will need time to put them into operation and reap the benefits. JR has a record of turning very average players into good ones and has contacts and friends withing the game that will feed us players from time to time. We are suffering from past administration and we need a reality check here -- It is only a couple of summers ago that we were about to fold. We are not, we are here. We need to continue to back the team, embrace the change in management and see what unfolds in the summer and new season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 IF we had wone the majority of the last 10 games and been looking forward to the play offs or promotion then this thread of course would be so different and it would all be one long buzz of praise... Instead because we havent its full of moans and blame for the position is being thrown around all over. But we didn't win the last 10 games... I don't see a problem with people trying to work out where it wrong wrong to be honest...if people think the problems at the club went away with Shez I think you need a reality check... Shez paid the price of poor management and lost his job. But many questions remain in regards to where the stadium development is going / financial future, how are we going to keep people coming and not let the club die, and their are serious question marks over the TTA running of the football side to the business. I don't think it dose us good to ignore these issues or to ask the questions... And sometimes when we ask question maybe their is a simple positive answer that clears it up. But until we get the answers I don't see what's wrong with asking the questions. I think their is sense of people feeling scared to question the owners because of the past. That is very unhealthy I feel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I'm depressed about the club and rarely go but I can't agree it is adrift. That is disrespectful to the owners. Why? I'm as supportive as anybody of the efforts of TTA, but why should these make us blind to their faults? The plan they outlined in the beginning lies in tatters: we were told that an experienced manager would be brought in to build a squad assembled with financial prudence, and that quality would be added as the new stadium/stadium redevelopment gets underway, enabling financial independence.The overall aim was said to be promotion. That the stadium redevelopment has stalled and is dependent on the fluctuations of the economy is not their fault, but what happened regarding the Ferney Fields site? I have no idea, but had it not been allowed to fall through (at a time when the economy was, on the surface at least,booming), I would imagine that we'd be about ready to move into a fine modern stadium by now. On the football side, meanwhile, horrific mistakes have made. We've had apparently decent budgets spent by managers only to see the squad broken up in almost every close season and knee-jerk, crowd-pleasing managerial appointments. Last year we all seemed to agree that it was the last stab at promotion due to Sheridan recieving a decent budget once again and the core of the squad being retained. Whatever went wrong, the season saw us become the laughing stock of the division and of local football. Now we don't even know who the manager will be next season or whether he will have a decent budget or hardly a budget at all. First we get heavy hints from both Simon Corney and Joe that there are going to be budget cuts, then we get speculation (although not from within the club it seems) that Royle will only stay if he gets a decent budget. The hardcore fanbase seems to be crumbling and our geographically closest local rivals can put world class players on display for more or less the same price that we offer leaden-footed lower divison journeymen, a turnover of loanees and unproven kids, in a three-sided ground that looks more non-league by the week. People within the club have spelled out that without the stadium redevelopment we have no worthwhile future. What else does this sound like apart from a club adrift? Edited April 20, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) IF we had wone the majority of the last 10 games and been looking forward to the play offs or promotion then this thread of course would be so different and it would all be one long buzz of praise... No it wouldn't, because the underlying problems would still be staring us in the face. Edited April 20, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I am sorry but several of you including Corporal seem to have amnesia ....with regard to gate sof 18-20,000 I do belive that was in the premiership days .....as far as I recall the gates when we were old Div2 were around 11/12000.....you have to go back to the late 50s when football was an inexpensive pastime for the working masses to see the gates on a regular basis Corporal was talking about. I never said high crowds were regular occurences; I said that the club could draw on a far wider casual fanbase than the likes of Stockport County, who people now seem to be determined to place the club alongside despite our very different histories, achievemnets and status in the game. Look at attendance figures for the 1973-4 season and the Fourth Division promotion season of 1970-1. Gates in the 15-18,000 range in both for big games and a much higher average than we can command now. Look at various 1970s cup games and fixtures in the old Second Division where we got well over 20,000 (albeit against local clubs with large away followings). Edited April 20, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 IF we had wone the majority of the last 10 games and been looking forward to the play offs or promotion then this thread of course would be so different and it would all be one long buzz of praise... Instead because we havent its full of moans and blame for the position is being thrown around all over. Member error 404 Sorry, this members' sense of reality that you are looking for might have been removed or is temporarily unavailable. It may return next season. It may not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I think their is sense of people feeling scared to question the owners because of the past. That is very unhealthy I feel... 'The lambs of Sheepfoot Lane...' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Why? I'm as supportive as anybody of the efforts of TTA, but why should these make us blind to their faults? The plan they outlined in the beginning lies in tatters: we were told that an experienced manager would be brought in to build a squad assembled with financial prudence, and that quality would be added as the new stadium/stadium redevelopment gets underway, enabling financial independence.The overall aim was said to be promotion. That the stadium redevelopment has stalled and is dependent on the fluctuations of the economy is not their fault, but what happened regarding the Ferney Fields site? I have no idea, but had it not been allowed to fall through (at a time when the economy was, on the surface at least,booming), I would imagine that we'd be about ready to move into a fine modern stadium by now. On the football side, meanwhile, horrific mistakes have made. We've had apparently decent budgets spent by managers only to see the squad broken up in almost every close season and knee-jerk, crowd-pleasing managerial appointments. Last year we all seemed to agree that it was the last stab at promotion due to Sheridan recieving a decent budget once again and the core of the squad being retained. Whatever went wrong, the season saw us become the laughing stock of the division and of local football. Now we don't even know who the manager will be next season or whether he will have a decent budget or hardly a budget at all. First we get heavy hints from both Simon Corney and Joe that there are going to be budget cuts, then we get speculation (although not from within the club it seems) that Royle will only stay if he gets a decent budget. The hardcore fanbase seems to be crumbling and our geographically closest local rivals can put world class players on display for more or less the same price that we offer leaden-footed lower divison journeymen, a turnover of loanees and unproven kids, in a three-sided ground that looks more non-league by the week. People within the club have spelled out that without the stadium redevelopment we have no worthwhile future. What else does this sound like apart from a club adrift? why does there plan lie in tatters,and which one??? the five year plan as i recall was one of coming in and stabalising a club hemeraging cash at an alarming rate,in a decaying stadium with a team going nowhere due to previous owner taking everything or selling the lot bar the kitchen sink. they have stuck to there word,the club is now more financially stable,it isnt leaking cash like the governments leaking emails and i believe were down to about 15k a week losses,and all this has been done without selling the family jewels so to speak. the ferney field site was dependant on the tit who owned the fields selling at a reasonable rate,he was and is a very big rugby fan,the money was there ready and waiting and he kept pissing about week after week after week,until the owners grew impatient then said stuff it,we shall develop bp and set off down that route. regarding decent budgets...yes we have but only once shez was in charge,and it was he who kept breaking sides up close season because he said certain players were not good enough,yet he signed them in the first place. knee jerk reactions and fan pleasing appointments??? talbot and moore certainly were not crowd pleasing appointments,the only one was sheridan. like has been said before,the team have underachieved because he broke up a winning team early doors to please players,then couldnt get it back to what it was,the players became unfit because he disbanded the reserve side,meaning anybody on the fringes of the squad couldnt get or stay fit,then to compensate for that he brings in loan players supposedly up there and better than what we have,then sends our own players out on loan..... i admit there is a hell of a lot not right at bp at this moment,but i think its a long way off being adrift as you put it. the only mistake the owners made was going down the ferny field route first instead of the bp one,had they gone for bp first and foremost,planning permission could of been granted earlier,when the economic markets were not as bad,the land could of already been sold to developers giving the owners there cash,and work could of already started on the new stand,and we would be one step nearer self sufficiency......alas were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I myself seem to recall talking about a 5 year plan - but to this day I cannot find any official comment about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I myself seem to recall talking about a 5 year plan - but to this day I cannot find any official comment about it. it was definately mooted about,because they laid the ground rules for there expectations,which would ultimately end in promotion. they didnt plan any cup runs into there plan for that 5 years so that any extra income or tv money generated would be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) why does there plan lie in tatters,and which one??? the five year plan as i recall was one of coming in and stabalising a club hemeraging cash at an alarming rate,in a decaying stadium with a team going nowhere due to previous owner taking everything or selling the lot bar the kitchen sink. they have stuck to there word,the club is now more financially stable,it isnt leaking cash like the governments leaking emails and i believe were down to about 15k a week losses,and all this has been done without selling the family jewels so to speak. the ferney field site was dependant on the tit who owned the fields selling at a reasonable rate,he was and is a very big rugby fan,the money was there ready and waiting and he kept pissing about week after week after week,until the owners grew impatient then said stuff it,we shall develop bp and set off down that route. regarding decent budgets...yes we have but only once shez was in charge,and it was he who kept breaking sides up close season because he said certain players were not good enough,yet he signed them in the first place. knee jerk reactions and fan pleasing appointments??? talbot and moore certainly were not crowd pleasing appointments,the only one was sheridan. like has been said before,the team have underachieved because he broke up a winning team early doors to please players,then couldnt get it back to what it was,the players became unfit because he disbanded the reserve side,meaning anybody on the fringes of the squad couldnt get or stay fit,then to compensate for that he brings in loan players supposedly up there and better than what we have,then sends our own players out on loan..... i admit there is a hell of a lot not right at bp at this moment,but i think its a long way off being adrift as you put it. the only mistake the owners made was going down the ferny field route first instead of the bp one,had they gone for bp first and foremost,planning permission could of been granted earlier,when the economic markets were not as bad,the land could of already been sold to developers giving the owners there cash,and work could of already started on the new stand,and we would be one step nearer self sufficiency......alas were not. Nobody ever said there was a five-year plan as far as I can recall. I'm talking about the aims that were hinted at when TTA first arrived, and the kind of talk that came out at the close-season open air meeting where not only recovery from the Chris Moore period was on the agenda but advancement of the club. What else can you say other than any plan, such as it existed, lies in tatters when the promotion we were said to be aiming for is, after five years during which some of the best players in the lower divisions have come and gone through BP, further away than it's been since the days of the Brierley board and we have no way of knowing if we will ever get the stadium redevelopment that everybody knows is absolutely essential to the club's survival in the long-term? The managerial turnover, whether crowd pleasing or not has been too much, wrecking any sense of stability. The appointments of both Sheridan and Royle have smacked of desperation and and resemble nothing more than Brierley and Stott's cynical appointment of Andy Ritchie in the hope that he would pacify the fans as the club's decline continues. We've become like a Man City soap opera in miniature, without the accompanying swagger, delusions of grandeur and sense of ambition. How do you know what kind of budget Moore or Talbot had? I doubt if it was one of the smallest in the division and certainly will not have been drastically smaller than those of smaller clubs than Latics who've managed to achieve promotion in that period, even if unable to sustain momentum. How do you know what went on regarding Ferney Fields? Were you in on the negotiations or is what you say mere rumour, of which we get aplenty on these boards? Financial losses might have been reduced but we are still leaking cash at an unsustainable rate and survive only due to the generosity of TTA. This is why we are, in the long-term, sunk without the stadium redevelopment, as everybody within the club recognises. TTA might have been club saviours, but they have failed to take us off the long trajectory of decline that we've been on for fifteen years, along which our demise ultimately beckons. Edited April 20, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 We're doomed. Doomed, I tell you. Tell you what, why doesn't everybody just stop going and have done with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 We're doomed. Doomed, I tell you. Tell you what, why doesn't everybody just stop going and have done with it? You've got to respect an analytical mind of this calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Serious question, corporal. I mean, it's the one you've been asking subconsciously for the last few seasons. And in countless posts on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Serious question, corporal. I mean, it's the one you've been asking subconsciously for the last few seasons. And in countless posts on this site. Why does anybody think that just because somebody can perceive the trouble a football club is in they should give up following it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 It's not just trouble you're perceiving, Corp. It's doom. You need to ask yourself whether it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Nobody ever said there was a five-year plan as far as I can recall. I'm talking about the aims that were hinted at when TTA first arrived, and the kind of talk that came out at the close-season open air meeting where not only recovery from the Chris Moore period was on the agenda but advancement of the club. What else can you say other than any plan, such as it existed, lies in tatters when the promotion we were said to be aiming for is, after five years during which some of the best players in the lower divisions have come and gone through BP, further away than it's been since the days of the Brierley board and we have no way of knowing if we will ever get the stadium redevelopment that everybody knows is absolutely essential to the club's survival in the long-term? The managerial turnover, whether crowd pleasing or not has been too much, wrecking any sense of stability. The appointments of both Sheridan and Royle have smacked of desperation and and resemble nothing more than Brierley and Stott's cynical appointment of Andy Ritchie in the hope that he would pacify the fans as the club's decline continues. We've become like a Man City soap opera in miniature, without the accompanying swagger, delusions of grandeur and sense of ambition. How do you know what kind of budget Moore or Talbot had? I doubt if it was one of the smallest in the division and certainly will not have been drastically smaller than those of smaller clubs than Latics who've managed to achieve promotion in that period, even if unable to sustain momentum. How do you know what went on regarding Ferney Fields? Were you in on the negotiations or is what you say mere rumour, of which we get aplenty on these boards? Financial losses might have been reduced but we are still leaking cash at an unsustainable rate and survive only due to the generosity of TTA. This is why we are, in the long-term, sunk without the stadium redevelopment, as everybody within the club recognises. TTA might have been club saviours, but they have failed to take us off the long trajectory of decline that we've been on for fifteen years, along which our demise ultimately beckons. i know for a fact that the guy who owned the land at the very last moment possible upped the price....the owners organised a meeting which he didnt show and sent a solicitor along instead....the owners aghast at what was happening turned round and said sorry,the deal is this,he has one week to accept what we have offered him originally then the deals is off...he then dragged his feet and didnt get in contact and pissed them about,that is when they said enough is enough and went down the bp route. you see there is also the issue that needs raising regarding such matters of 15 years of mediocrity etc etc etc....when in reality what happened before the tta's took over is history,done and dusted....we can only realistically go off what has happened since the club was reborn under them. when a lot of your arguments is or seems to be based around how we have been since comming out of the premiership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 You've got to respect an analytical mind of this calibre. Oh and lay off the ad hominem stuff. Last refuge of those whose argument is seriously flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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