Corporal_Jones Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 1. Where has the apparent tearing up of another set of stadium plans been evidenced? 2. Starting again with a new squad and manager is a positive thing after the last 5 years, especially with what has been seen so far. 3. A possible moving to a temporary home is a positive thing if the end game - as stated - is a new stadium. Although todays comments by Simon Blitz suggest we won't be moving anywhere on a temporary basis. Just because it's not BP being redeveloped you deem it to be negative option. We aren't going to be sharing a "fourth division ground" with a neighbour - read the words you posted. You've got a big downer on anything and anyone that doesn't agree with your views. Oh - and thanks for setting me straight on my rights here. 1. It hasn't 'been evidenced.' It's what we are all speculating over due to some highly ambiguous statements coming from the club recently. 2. We've said this several times over the last ten years. Got us a long way, didn't it? 3. Difficult to tell exactly what SB is saying. A temporary home may be acceptable if a new stadium actually gets underway immediately and is seen through to the end, although it would inevitably lose the club some support and therefore income until the move back, and may result in some lapsed fans never coming back. It would be disastrous if it took place as an indefinite measure without a new stadium materialising. I haven't got 'a big downer' on anybody (or anything, although I never realised we had 'things' posting here as well as people.). Feel free to agree or disagree with me; it's what the messageboard's for after all. Anyway, the accusation is a bit rich coming from one of the gaggle of happys who follow me round with their own version of the big downer to slap me round the head with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 What is wrong with what he said there? If Oldham Athletic moved out of town permanently then I'd stop supporting. I'd like to stay at BP, but can understand if we have to move ground. But if a new ground is not in Oldham/Royton/Chadderton/Failsworth/Saddleworth then they will no longer be representing Oldham, therefore no longer representing me. And as a result I'd stop going, and probably stop watching football....and I'm pretty sure I'm not on my own with that. That's fine. You can do whatever you feel is right. I'm saying that the club needs to lift itself out the dark ages, and the fans need to think forward. If Oldham Athletic built a new stadium in Ashton, or Failsworth, or Milnrow - in other words close enough for the team to be still called Oldham Athletic (and for the sentimental out there, the new ground could still be called Boundary Park - its a sugary sweet but there you go) I'd still go and support Oldham Athletic. Would they no longer represent Oldham? I think that if we remain where we are, with the current PR/commercial reluctance or apathy or whatever reason to sell the club in the town centre and in the surrounding areas (plus I'm hearing on here that the council really doesn't want to aid the club at all) I can't see the atmosphere, or the product on the pitch getting any better than it is now. Will redevelopment of the existing site change local fans' outlook towards the team? I'm skeptical. And what exactly is there in Oldham for the towns team to represent? Apart from the dwindling indigenous support? It meant a lot 20-30-40 or more years ago, now I feel that it's just a badge on a shirt today. This isn't a call for franchising the brand, it's about relighting the fire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 3. Difficult to tell exactly what SB is saying. A temporary home may be acceptable if a new stadium actually gets underway immediately and is seen through to the end, although it would inevitably lose the club some support and therefore income until the move back, and may result in some lapsed fans never coming back. It would be disastrous if it took place as an indefinite measure without a new stadium materialising. I haven't got 'a big downer' on anybody (or anything, although I never realised we had 'things' posting here as well as people.). Feel free to agree or disagree with me; it's what the messageboard's for after all. Anyway, the accusation is a bit rich coming from one of the gaggle of happys who follow me round with their own version of the big downer to slap me round the head with. I think it's clear what SB is saying here. Not moving out of Oldham. Not sharing an existing 4th Division (North) ground. Possibly sharing a new Oldham ground in Oldham with another club. Not that difficult to understand and any other interpretation is just trying to put words in people's mouths for the sake of an agenda. A - You've got a big downer on anything that doesn't agree with your views. B - You've got a big downer on anyone that doesn't agree with your views. C - You've got a big downer on anything and anyone that doesn't agree with your views. Clearer for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 That's fine. You can do whatever you feel is right. I'm saying that the club needs to lift itself out the dark ages, and the fans need to think forward. If Oldham Athletic built a new stadium in Ashton, or Failsworth, or Milnrow - in other words close enough for the team to be still called Oldham Athletic (and for the sentimental out there, the new ground could still be called Boundary Park - its a sugary sweet but there you go) I'd still go and support Oldham Athletic. Would they no longer represent Oldham? I think that if we remain where we are, with the current PR/commercial reluctance or apathy or whatever reason to sell the club in the town centre and in the surrounding areas (plus I'm hearing on here that the council really doesn't want to aid the club at all) I can't see the atmosphere, or the product on the pitch getting any better than it is now. Will redevelopment of the existing site change local fans' outlook towards the team? I'm skeptical. And what exactly is there in Oldham for the towns team to represent? Apart from the dwindling indigenous support? It meant a lot 20-30-40 or more years ago, now I feel that it's just a badge on a shirt today. This isn't a call for franchising the brand, it's about relighting the fire... Dave, you know how much I respect you mate, but what Matt says here is 100% nailed on. It's the real world and to dream of BP being the home of Oldham for all time is just too short sighted. If it's for the good of the club then we have to move. This is not a million mile march to London to build a stadium there, it's about the real world and the practicalities of moving forwards and not backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 That's fine. You can do whatever you feel is right. I'm saying that the club needs to lift itself out the dark ages, and the fans need to think forward. If Oldham Athletic built a new stadium in Ashton, or Failsworth, or Milnrow - in other words close enough for the team to be still called Oldham Athletic (and for the sentimental out there, the new ground could still be called Boundary Park - its a sugary sweet but there you go) I'd still go and support Oldham Athletic. Would they no longer represent Oldham? Well Failsworth is in Oldham, so I wouldn't have a problem playing there. Ashton and Milnrow are not. Basically, if you see a sign saying "Welcome to Oldham" on the way to the ground then I'm all for it. I wouldn't be for moving to Ashton because 1. It's Tameside. and 2. Ashton is full of mongs. And I'd be against a move to Milnrow because thats Rochdale and we would be moving in on there territory (and doing that would be wrong). I think that if we remain where we are, with the current PR/commercial reluctance or apathy or whatever reason to sell the club in the town centre and in the surrounding areas (plus I'm hearing on here that the council really doesn't want to aid the club at all) I can't see the atmosphere, or the product on the pitch getting any better than it is now. Will redevelopment of the existing site change local fans' outlook towards the team? I'm skeptical. It might do, it might not. But moving out of town would alienate a lot of fans which we already have. It would alienate me, and many others. We would lose a lot of fans from Oldham (the town we would be "named after") and there would be no guarantee that people in the new town would take to us. Why exactly would anyone in Milnrow go to watch Oldham Athletic unless they became Milnrow Athletic? And doesnt anyone in Milnrow who has an interest in lower division football already go watching Dale or Us? And what exactly is there in Oldham for the towns team to represent? Apart from the dwindling indigenous support? It meant a lot 20-30-40 or more years ago, now I feel that it's just a badge on a shirt today. This isn't a call for franchising the brand, it's about relighting the fire... It does need to be re-lit. And it need to be re-lit in Oldham. Moving out of town would not re-invigourate the public of Oldham, which should be the aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Dave, you know how much I respect you mate, but what Matt says here is 100% nailed on. It's the real world and to dream of BP being the home of Oldham for all time is just too short sighted. If it's for the good of the club then we have to move. This is not a million mile march to London to build a stadium there, it's about the real world and the practicalities of moving forwards and not backwards. I said I'd like to stay at BP but would have no problem in moving within Oldham. But would have a problem moving out of Oldham. A bloody big problem. It's hardly short sighted saying I would have problem with my football club, which I only support because they are from the same place as me, moving out of town (no matter how close they remain). Edited July 7, 2009 by dave_ragg1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 There are a few people who support Oldham who I know who have no ties to the town of Oldham at all, so do they care if the ground moves? For me I'll wait until something concrete is announced before 'throwing my ticket on the pitch.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 There are a few people who support Oldham who I know who have no ties to the town of Oldham at all, so do they care if the ground moves? For me I'll wait until something concrete is announced before 'throwing my ticket on the pitch.' I too have no ties to Oldham as such, Failsworths too close to the middle to make the call really, so I guess I have a tainted view compared to those from the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I said I'd like to stay at BP but would have no problem in moving within Oldham. But would have a problem moving out of Oldham. A bloody big problem. It's hardly short sighted saying I would have problem with my football club, which I only support because they are from the same place as me, moving out of town (no matter how close they remain). Agree 100% Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLee Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 either way i will still go and watch latics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Can anyone name all the English clubs who don't play on a ground within their own Borough ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellysheroes Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 right oldham want a new ground ideas to be put forward do we use the same plans and build a stadium like that or do we build a ground like donny..a cr** bowl ground, i know cardiff and derby are bowl grounds but they are big and they both fill them id prefer a 4sided ground but new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 right oldham want a new ground ideas to be put forward do we use the same plans and build a stadium like that or do we build a ground like donny..a cr** bowl ground, i know cardiff and derby are bowl grounds but they are big and they both fill them id prefer a 4sided ground but new Ideally I'd love something along the lines of Deepdale - 4 proper distinctive stands that are steeply banked so yo feel as if you are right on top of the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Dave, you know how much I respect you mate, but what Matt says here is 100% nailed on. It's the real world and to dream of BP being the home of Oldham for all time is just too short sighted. If it's for the good of the club then we have to move. This is not a million mile march to London to build a stadium there, it's about the real world and the practicalities of moving forwards and not backwards. Exactly Oldham playing in Tameside, is in my opinion, no different to Bolton playing in Horwich or even dare I say it, Manchester United playing in Trafford. A move to tameside (using this purely as an example) would be in no way a move on the same scale as Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Can anyone name all the English clubs who don't play on a ground within their own Borough ? Bolton wanderers - play in Horwich, comes under Horwich council Manchester United - comes under trafford/salford? (Dunno whether you could count this) Grimsby - play in cleethorpes will add more as i think of em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellysheroes Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Ideally I'd love something along the lines of Deepdale - 4 proper distinctive stands that are steeply banked so yo feel as if you are right on top of the action. deepdale nice ground thats what id want or something like blackpool or have we already got a better version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Dave, I don't have the answers. But I have to agree with you, club does represent the town - and look how the town rallies around to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 simple equations. good football+success=bums on seats. :censored:e football+failure=empty seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Agree 100% Dave move to Tamesdie - every game's an away game - fantastic! would the club prosper under an enthusiastic MBC or die under Oldham MBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Why can't we stay at BP? If you find some money to redevelop BP then we can stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I've come to the conclusion the club would die if it moved out of Oldham. I can't see future generations of Oldhamers being inclined to go and watch a team outside their town, and I can't see future generations of our new locals being inclined to go and support a team that doesn't represent them. If we move out of the borough, we may aswell change our name to Tameside Athletic and start again. And all this blame and negativity attached to OMBC doesn't really get us anywhere - the grass is no greener elsewhere; last time I looked Tameside wasn't exactly the land of milk and honey. I'm also completely underwhelmed by the prospect of a new but characterless concrete bowl on some godforsaken brownfield site on the edge of town. What everyone wants is the Reebok or the Circle - what they don't seem to realise is what we'd get is something more like Scunthorpe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I think it's clear what SB is saying here. Not moving out of Oldham. Not sharing an existing 4th Division (North) ground. Possibly sharing a new Oldham ground in Oldham with another club. Not that difficult to understand and any other interpretation is just trying to put words in people's mouths for the sake of an agenda. A - You've got a big downer on anything that doesn't agree with your views. B - You've got a big downer on anyone that doesn't agree with your views. C - You've got a big downer on anything and anyone that doesn't agree with your views. Clearer for you? Maybe I've led a sheltered life, but things don't agree or disagree generally. Aside from that, as I said, I haven't got a downer on anybody. Fel free to agree or disagree with me. You are all equal in my eyes, my children. One of the downsides of internet debate is the number of people who think that those whose views they dislike have got 'an agenda'. I haven't got an agenda, but I'll tell you what-if I think of one can I get you to type it up for me, 'cos me fingers are sore after today's exertions? Oh, and do some photocopies for distribution, will you. Aside from that, SB's statement remains rather ambiguous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Can anyone name all the English clubs who don't play on a ground within their own Borough ? For a start Manchester United don't play within the boundaries of the city of Manchester. As has been discussed before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Exactly Oldham playing in Tameside, is in my opinion, no different to Bolton playing in Horwich or even dare I say it, Manchester United playing in Trafford. A move to tameside (using this purely as an example) would be in no way a move on the same scale as Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. United playing in Trafford is completely different. When they moved to Trafford, football was in its infancy, whereas we have played in Oldham since 1895. There really is no comparison. And Horwich is part of Bolton. Moving to Tameside, to me, would be no different than Wimbledon being moved to MK. If the people of Tameside want league football, then they can get off their arses and support Droylsden/Stalybridge/Curzon Ashton/Ashton United/Hyde United and hopefully one day they will get in the league. Why on earth would they support us if they moved there? Anyone who wants to support us in Tameside already does. Its not hard to get to BP, you just need to get the 409. Tameside is not the answer. What we need is a new ground, either at BP, or elsewhere in Oldham. Edited July 7, 2009 by dave_ragg1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Bolton wanderers - play in Horwich, comes under Horwich council Manchester United - comes under trafford/salford? (Dunno whether you could count this) Grimsby - play in cleethorpes will add more as i think of em Horwich is a district of Bolton and comes under Bolton council. It's part of the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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