Failsworth Residents "Action" Group

[LaticsPete]

I emailed the address given in the Chron. I did get a long reply (below) but it's a formulaic one and didn't answer specific points I put. It seems that FRAG itself doesn't want to engage in discussion.

 

Dear emailer

 

Having received queries as to the reasons the Residents Action Group & numerous residents from both East & West Failsworth are opposed to the Stadium. The reasons are many & varied dependent upon who you ask at any one time. However on behalf of FRAG I will attempt to summarise the main concerns reported to & by the members.

 

Litter. It is an unfortunate fact that litter is becoming an increasing nuisance / environmental problem & despite appeals to the public to consider others before dropping their litter the problem has only increased. Few would argue that fast food shops / mobile chippie / burger stalls have had a part to play in this. We haven't yet heard anything about anything from OAFC least of all, that they plan to ensure litter is not a problem by, say, only allowing fans to eat indoors, having litter wardens strategically placed around the ground with fishing nets catching the offending items as they fly gracelessly through the air. (and believe this resident who lives nearest to the boundary of the proposed site & is constantly clearing their driveway of dust and litter blown there by a combination of traffic--Broadway is a dual carriageway --and the wind which regularly sweeps across Hardman Fold) This increased and unwelcome rubbish will not only effect the immediate residents but all those within the boundaries of the ebbing & flowing air

 

Traffic. Anybody who knows the area is aware that the junction where the two major roads, Broadway and Oldham Rd, meet, is invariably busy at anytime of the day, not least on Saturdays & Sundays when people are out shopping, visiting friends & relatives, enjoying a trip out or -- dare we say it-- commuting to their favoured locations, Boundary Park & Eastlands to see their favourite teams. This activity of course is no longer restricted to between 2ish & 6ish on a Saturday afternoon, no, this can be virtually anytime of any day or night. Often, of course the time would be dictated by sky & other TV companies. And mercy help everybody heading home from a hard day in the City if the start happens to clash with the rush hour.

 

Parking, --( linked to the above but, possibly meriting a mention of it's own) Anybody with an inkling of knowledge of the street layout around Failsworth in general, the West ward in particular BUT SPECIFICALLY the quarter mile (approx) radius around the Morrisons sector of the ward (not including the Newton Heath half of course --- though I'm sure they will want to have their say as well --- ask them) would not be surprised to know that, shopping in Morrisons on a Saturday afternoon requires a certain amount of patience & dexterity. Finding a parking space & getting into it before others, is sometimes a challenge today. Try asking residents in Hardman, Hulton, Brown & Booth St's - Dean & Dalton, Hale & Pole Lane, Main St & Ashton E, Lord Lane to Clive Rd, Paddock Lane to Brookdale park & all stops in between. And that's just some of the Failsworth side. For those who (like myself) like attention to detail I will try to attach overhead views Of the two sites but in case I'm not succesfull I would recommend the use of Google Maps. Just go into G M, Put in OAFC OL1 for B Park & Lancaster club M35. Use the satellite tab to get a pictorial impression, (looks reet good) Hone in to compare them at various heights. (same for both of course) NB Look also how close it is to the Manchester boundary & why residents in Moston, Newton Heath & particularly those living on the Fairway will be effected

 

Noise Pollution. As a football fan myself I haven't yet been to a ground where the home & visiting fans have walked around whispering, muffling their enthusiastic expectations before the game nor their elation / misery at the end ( And will the litter wardens turn into noise abaters when the fans leave the site AND accompany them -- Individually of course -- home?)

Then there's the other one of course --

White Noise Pollution. Most games are played during the Autumn, Winter & Spring periods, a goodly part of which means stadium lighting would be essential for most if not all of the game. As discussed previously, it is quite commonplace for games to be played in the evening as well as the afternoon. Floodlights will be on early & off late.

 

Public Order, This is the honest truth. A few weeks after the the announcement, in fact , the Saddleworth "YANKS" weekend Saturday, my wife & I drove back from the event via Rochdale -Oldham Rd, past Oldham Royal , past Sheepfoot Lane. It was about 6 PM. The first two pubs on the right, going towards Royton, had several police vans on their forecourts & at the second pub there was a fight going on with the police. I acknowledge this could well have been an isolated incident but, truthfully, this was the first time we had taken this route, at this time, and following a match, EVER!. But hold on, didn't I read something about OAFC wanting to toughen up on their unruly fans. Who's for avisit from Luton or MILLWALL. Aaahhh!!!

Anybody with any knowledge of the Oldham Rd/Broadway junction of Failsworth could not fail to be aware that, at least four pubs Have closed down in the last few years due to lack of patronage.(Drinks cheaper at Tescos & Morrisons.) Why are we not surprised to hear that at least one is planning to open up again, IF, the stadium gets the go ahead.

 

Degeneration of the area. More than two years ago, unusually maybe, The Councillors of Oldham got together with those of Manchester, ( specifically the Failsworth & Moston ones ) Because Moston Brook & it's unkempt surroundings was badly in need of some T.L.C, -- (The Brook itself was tested and classified as one of the most poluted & toxic in the uk.) They resolved to do something about it &, eventually, a joint agreement was drawn up commiting both Councils to establish the Moston Brook Regeneration Project. ( Check out the website, it's very interesting & details the range of professional / environmental organisations involved)

The plan involves a genuine redevelopment of the area from Hollinwood down to Dean Lane, Newton Heath. Basically the plan is to clear, clean up, culivate, renovate &, obviously, Regenerate the area for the benefit of Failsworth, Moston, Newton Heath resident's, community charge payers, &, hopefully protectors of such a farsighted vision. But not only that, it could also benefit individuals & families from further afield who may want to visit it, just as they do at Daisy Nook.

( That of Lowrie fame) This project has been under way for more than a year & has excited many residents by it's promise. We understand that recently the Wardens position had been advertised & they may well be in place by now. As residents we are hoping to turn it into a Country Park Like D N

What would be the effect of the Stadium on this you might ask!! One can only guess at this but, my guess would be that 20% of the Oldham part would be concreted over. The remainder footdamaged by fans & visitors taking what would be the shortest route from wherever they could park their cars for free. Hardly a condusive area for families to bring their children for a relaxing , pleasurable & safe walk out.

Being a football fan myself , I'm not wanting to malign their (few as they may be) characters, but, If the "three amigoes" as well as, the Leader of Oldham Council Howard Sykes PLUS Cllr Uddin, the Regeneration Chairman with direct responsibility in the MBR project , degenerate & disregard the area, who can blame the fans for not being concerned

 

Dramatic devaluation of property in the area. It is not disputed that the Three amigoes have a right to a return on their investment, after all, it was their money they put in no doubt.Equally then, to any fair minded person, it is surely just as right for the residents to get a return on THEIR investments also. The mwn it ,majority of investments for the working class comes in the form of the property they may own or have a mortgage on. For those who own outright, no doubt having struggled to get then maintain the mortgage, they may wish to sell & move away either to a similar priced & sized property or downsize & use the residue to enjoy lifes little luxurys.

Alternatively the may wish to pass it on as an inheritance.

With regard to those still holding a mortgage, possibly of greater value than the price they paid due to the current economic climate ie; holding negative equity, no doubt they will have reasonable optomism that , as always happens, their property will increase to his former value at some stage.

We have consulted with an Estate Agents Surveyor, We put it to him what % difference in price would there be if the stadium goes ahead.

 

His response ---- A min 30% DEVALUATION for those nearest to the stadium.

 

Perhaps critics of our campaign would themselves, given the circumstances set out above, be happy to have it in their back yard

 

I trust this explanation is of use

 

Regards

 

Peter Batty

Acting secretary

Edited November 6, 2009 by LaticsPete

[Diego_Sideburns]

No doubt the Club will be able to deal with the relevant grounds of objection as part of the process of explaining the plans, when they have been prepared. The Planners will also take these points into account before making a recommendation to the Planning Committee. The traffic assessment will need to be satisfactory before planning permission can be granted, but this time it should not be necessary to have three traffic assessments.

[johnny punkster]

No doubt the Club will be able to deal with the relevant grounds of objection as part of the process of explaining the plans, when they have been prepared. The Planners will also take these points into account before making a recommendation to the Planning Committee. The traffic assessment will need to be satisfactory before planning permission can be granted, but this time it should not be necessary to have three traffic assessments.

 

 

and the proposed devaluation of the residents properties?

[LaticsPete]

and the proposed devaluation of the residents properties?

 

I'm no expert on property prices but I would expect that there is hard evidence ftom towns where relocations have taken place.

And let's not forget that other use of the land e.g. industrial units could have a potentially much bigger negative impact.

[Lookers_Carl]

No doubt the Club will be able to deal with the relevant grounds of objection as part of the process of explaining the plans, when they have been prepared. The Planners will also take these points into account before making a recommendation to the Planning Committee. The traffic assessment will need to be satisfactory before planning permission can be granted, but this time it should not be necessary to have three traffic assessments.

 

And with a bit of luck they may actually read the traffic reports properly before the planning committee meet, unlike the first planning meeting.

[Diego_Sideburns]

and the proposed devaluation of the residents properties?

 

The Planning Committee members will be aware that devaluation of property cannot be held to be a material consideration in determining planning applications.

 

[Diego_Sideburns]

And with a bit of luck they may actually read the traffic reports properly before the planning committee meet, unlike the first planning meeting.

 

Being pedantic, the "first" planning meeting was actually the second, as consideration of the application was deferred at the first meeting, but I know what you mean.

 

I don't think the Leader of the Council and Chief Executive will want to go through the embarrassment of the fallout from that meeting again.

[ghostofcecere]

A visit from those notoriuos trouble makers from Luton

 

It's all about NIMBY-ism really and I guess if somebody was wanted to build stuff on our doorsteps we would all be the same. The one that always makes me smile is the traffic issue, it's twice a month for god's sake!!!! Although I admit that the community pitches (which it could be argued the locals will benefit from) will generate some traffic, most of this will be out of the rush hour anyway.

[oafc0000]

A visit from those notoriuos trouble makers from Luton

 

It's all about NIMBY-ism really and I guess if somebody was wanted to build stuff on our doorsteps we would all be the same. The one that always makes me smile is the traffic issue, it's twice a month for god's sake!!!! Although I admit that the community pitches (which it could be argued the locals will benefit from) will generate some traffic, most of this will be out of the rush hour anyway.

 

I think the majority of what we could build would only result in traffic outside of the rush hour with the exception of a hotel but that is not on the cards is it ?

[singe]

The Planning Committee members will be aware that devaluation of property cannot be held to be a material consideration in determining planning applications.

Looking at their actions as a pressure group, I would have thought all easily overcomable.

As you area of expertise Diego, I think you highlighted previosly that the TTA will be garnering everthing togeter, and then embarking on P R (in the relationship rather than spin meaning of the word) to reassure residents.

 

The only issue that cannot be resolved, as you stated, would be the house devaluations, if any.

Firstly, the ones nearest, might be 30%, but furter away I woudl have thought a far smaller effect.

It is quite easy to research the house prices variances, but it is acknolwedge that hosue prioces have generally fallen to 2006 levels anyway, so any analysis would take this into effect.

 

SO I can start to look at this, which stadiums would mostly resemble ours in terms of capacity, location in an industrial area, but in green belt and also the relative number fof houses in that area, do you think?

[ghostofcecere]

I think the majority of what we could build would only result in traffic outside of the rush hour with the exception of a hotel but that is not on the cards is it ?

As far as I'm aware (enter The Corp ) this is a much scaled back development with no hotel this time so I think the traffic impact is a bit of a non-starter, mind you I thought that about the original plan TTA had for BP and the Council still held it up on those grounds didn't they!

[leeslover]

You could take issue with a lot of that, but the bit I am REALLY not going to take lying down is the claim that we will make enough noise to disturb the residents.

[RoytonLatics]

I cant believe they are using noise as a complaint, its not as if the games go on till 3 in the morning and stop them from getting their beauty sleep. Its litterally gonna be for 2-3 hours once maybe twice a week if their lucky. They also talk about the traffic, have they never been near Elk mill retail park at the weekends? They all need to get a grip, I hope the council completely ignore this rubbish.

[LaticMark]

Thanks LaticsPete - I now know what issues to address in my letter of support to the planning committee. Just waiting for the planning application now!

 

[ghostofcecere]

You could take issue with a lot of that, but the bit I am REALLY not going to take lying down is the claim that we will make enough noise to disturb the residents.

[oafc0000]

Thanks for posting that Pete...

 

Having read it I do not think the residents have a leg to stand on...

 

It more the political battle which is forming that we need to be worried about...

[LaticsPete]

Thanks for posting that Pete...

 

Having read it I do not think the residents have a leg to stand on...

 

It more the political battle which is forming that we need to be worried about...

 

 

No problem. It is a poorly constructed and argued "manifesto". Most of the innacurate, emotive, claims can be readily dealt with.

The political scenario is interesting and will no doubt unfold in the coming months!

Still plenty of time for lobbying comrades!

 

P.s. Batty mentions twice he is a "football fan". Love to find out how he shows that!

[danoafc]

I emailed the address given in the Chron. I did get a long reply (below) but it's a formulaic one and didn't answer specific points I put. It seems that FRAG itself doesn't want to engage in discussion.

 

Dear emailer

 

Having received queries as to the reasons the Residents Action Group & numerous residents from both East & West Failsworth are opposed to the Stadium. The reasons are many & varied dependent upon who you ask at any one time. However on behalf of FRAG I will attempt to summarise the main concerns reported to & by the members.

 

Litter. It is an unfortunate fact that litter is becoming an increasing nuisance / environmental problem & despite appeals to the public to consider others before dropping their litter the problem has only increased. Few would argue that fast food shops / mobile chippie / burger stalls have had a part to play in this. We haven't yet heard anything about anything from OAFC least of all, that they plan to ensure litter is not a problem by, say, only allowing fans to eat indoors, having litter wardens strategically placed around the ground with fishing nets catching the offending items as they fly gracelessly through the air. (and believe this resident who lives nearest to the boundary of the proposed site & is constantly clearing their driveway of dust and litter blown there by a combination of traffic--Broadway is a dual carriageway --and the wind which regularly sweeps across Hardman Fold) This increased and unwelcome rubbish will not only effect the immediate residents but all those within the boundaries of the ebbing & flowing air

 

Traffic. Anybody who knows the area is aware that the junction where the two major roads, Broadway and Oldham Rd, meet, is invariably busy at anytime of the day, not least on Saturdays & Sundays when people are out shopping, visiting friends & relatives, enjoying a trip out or -- dare we say it-- commuting to their favoured locations, Boundary Park & Eastlands to see their favourite teams. This activity of course is no longer restricted to between 2ish & 6ish on a Saturday afternoon, no, this can be virtually anytime of any day or night. Often, of course the time would be dictated by sky & other TV companies. And mercy help everybody heading home from a hard day in the City if the start happens to clash with the rush hour.

 

Parking, --( linked to the above but, possibly meriting a mention of it's own) Anybody with an inkling of knowledge of the street layout around Failsworth in general, the West ward in particular BUT SPECIFICALLY the quarter mile (approx) radius around the Morrisons sector of the ward (not including the Newton Heath half of course --- though I'm sure they will want to have their say as well --- ask them) would not be surprised to know that, shopping in Morrisons on a Saturday afternoon requires a certain amount of patience & dexterity. Finding a parking space & getting into it before others, is sometimes a challenge today. Try asking residents in Hardman, Hulton, Brown & Booth St's - Dean & Dalton, Hale & Pole Lane, Main St & Ashton E, Lord Lane to Clive Rd, Paddock Lane to Brookdale park & all stops in between. And that's just some of the Failsworth side. For those who (like myself) like attention to detail I will try to attach overhead views Of the two sites but in case I'm not succesfull I would recommend the use of Google Maps. Just go into G M, Put in OAFC OL1 for B Park & Lancaster club M35. Use the satellite tab to get a pictorial impression, (looks reet good) Hone in to compare them at various heights. (same for both of course) NB Look also how close it is to the Manchester boundary & why residents in Moston, Newton Heath & particularly those living on the Fairway will be effected

 

Noise Pollution. As a football fan myself I haven't yet been to a ground where the home & visiting fans have walked around whispering, muffling their enthusiastic expectations before the game nor their elation / misery at the end ( And will the litter wardens turn into noise abaters when the fans leave the site AND accompany them -- Individually of course -- home?)

Then there's the other one of course --

White Noise Pollution. Most games are played during the Autumn, Winter & Spring periods, a goodly part of which means stadium lighting would be essential for most if not all of the game. As discussed previously, it is quite commonplace for games to be played in the evening as well as the afternoon. Floodlights will be on early & off late.

 

Public Order, This is the honest truth. A few weeks after the the announcement, in fact , the Saddleworth "YANKS" weekend Saturday, my wife & I drove back from the event via Rochdale -Oldham Rd, past Oldham Royal , past Sheepfoot Lane. It was about 6 PM. The first two pubs on the right, going towards Royton, had several police vans on their forecourts & at the second pub there was a fight going on with the police. I acknowledge this could well have been an isolated incident but, truthfully, this was the first time we had taken this route, at this time, and following a match, EVER!. But hold on, didn't I read something about OAFC wanting to toughen up on their unruly fans. Who's for avisit from Luton or MILLWALL. Aaahhh!!!

Anybody with any knowledge of the Oldham Rd/Broadway junction of Failsworth could not fail to be aware that, at least four pubs Have closed down in the last few years due to lack of patronage.(Drinks cheaper at Tescos & Morrisons.) Why are we not surprised to hear that at least one is planning to open up again, IF, the stadium gets the go ahead.

 

Degeneration of the area. More than two years ago, unusually maybe, The Councillors of Oldham got together with those of Manchester, ( specifically the Failsworth & Moston ones ) Because Moston Brook & it's unkempt surroundings was badly in need of some T.L.C, -- (The Brook itself was tested and classified as one of the most poluted & toxic in the uk.) They resolved to do something about it &, eventually, a joint agreement was drawn up commiting both Councils to establish the Moston Brook Regeneration Project. ( Check out the website, it's very interesting & details the range of professional / environmental organisations involved)

The plan involves a genuine redevelopment of the area from Hollinwood down to Dean Lane, Newton Heath. Basically the plan is to clear, clean up, culivate, renovate &, obviously, Regenerate the area for the benefit of Failsworth, Moston, Newton Heath resident's, community charge payers, &, hopefully protectors of such a farsighted vision. But not only that, it could also benefit individuals & families from further afield who may want to visit it, just as they do at Daisy Nook.

( That of Lowrie fame) This project has been under way for more than a year & has excited many residents by it's promise. We understand that recently the Wardens position had been advertised & they may well be in place by now. As residents we are hoping to turn it into a Country Park Like D N

What would be the effect of the Stadium on this you might ask!! One can only guess at this but, my guess would be that 20% of the Oldham part would be concreted over. The remainder footdamaged by fans & visitors taking what would be the shortest route from wherever they could park their cars for free. Hardly a condusive area for families to bring their children for a relaxing , pleasurable & safe walk out.

Being a football fan myself , I'm not wanting to malign their (few as they may be) characters, but, If the "three amigoes" as well as, the Leader of Oldham Council Howard Sykes PLUS Cllr Uddin, the Regeneration Chairman with direct responsibility in the MBR project , degenerate & disregard the area, who can blame the fans for not being concerned

 

Dramatic devaluation of property in the area. It is not disputed that the Three amigoes have a right to a return on their investment, after all, it was their money they put in no doubt.Equally then, to any fair minded person, it is surely just as right for the residents to get a return on THEIR investments also. The mwn it ,majority of investments for the working class comes in the form of the property they may own or have a mortgage on. For those who own outright, no doubt having struggled to get then maintain the mortgage, they may wish to sell & move away either to a similar priced & sized property or downsize & use the residue to enjoy lifes little luxurys.

Alternatively the may wish to pass it on as an inheritance.

With regard to those still holding a mortgage, possibly of greater value than the price they paid due to the current economic climate ie; holding negative equity, no doubt they will have reasonable optomism that , as always happens, their property will increase to his former value at some stage.

We have consulted with an Estate Agents Surveyor, We put it to him what % difference in price would there be if the stadium goes ahead.

 

His response ---- A min 30% DEVALUATION for those nearest to the stadium.

 

Perhaps critics of our campaign would themselves, given the circumstances set out above, be happy to have it in their back yard

 

I trust this explanation is of use

 

Regards

 

Peter Batty

Acting secretary

 

me! Litter wardens with fishing nets?! WTF?

 

On a slightly more serious not, I'm pretty sure they can't have objections upheld on noise or light pollution as these only apply beyond certain hours - none of which would be when a game was taking place.

[oafc0000]

Still plenty of time for lobbying comrades!

 

*waits for the plans... If I like them I will be lobbying

[LeylandLatic]

me! Litter wardens with fishing nets?! WTF?

 

I've heard they're going to be given uniforms akin to a 1900's butterfly catcher. Antique blunderbus is an optional extra.

[danoafc]

I've heard they're going to be given uniforms akin to a 1900's butterfly catcher. Antique blunderbus is an optional extra.

 

This was more what I was thinking

 

There is LITTER here somewhere.....I can smell it!!

Edited November 6, 2009 by danoafc

[Diego_Sideburns]

The only issue that cannot be resolved, as you stated, would be the house devaluations, if any.

 

The Planning Committee members will be aware that devaluation of property cannot be held to be a material consideration in determining planning applications.

 

Just in case anyone thinks singe is referring to house devaluation as a problem, it is not, because it is an issue which the Planning Committee cannot, in law, take into account when considering the proposed planning application. Therefore we can cross property devaluation off the list of matters to be considered.

[Lookers_Carl]

Litter: Am sorry but that is nothing but here say, only evidence for this is the hearsay from other Nimbys. No concrete proof that a football stadium will increase this should bins be provided round the ground.

 

Property Devaluation: Didnt they say that about the motorway in Chadderton, yet it actually increased the property values? And besides, as Diego said, they are not allowed to take this into consideration.

 

Traffic: I suppose this question will be answered by the Traffic Survey we would have to carry out. And if BP got planning permission (evenutally) and overcome this hurdle, then I can't see how this would be a hurdle here considering that

1) Transport links will be superior, especially when the new Metro is built

2) The road network as it is could cope with more traffic than what the road network near Boundary Park could

3) If necessary, we could easilly play our home games on alternate weeks to when city are at home.

 

Noise/ Light pollution: Complete and utter bollocks, absolutely no way they can prove it will make the 'noise pollution' any worse than it is now. This can easilly be overcome by stadium design (designed to keep the acoustics inside the ground) and also re floodlights, they can be designed so they are integrated into the stadium, see the example below from the liberty stadium

 

 

Parking: Considering the transport links to this stadium and the crowds we are likely to get, parking will not be a problem if sufficient space is provided. I think the improved transport links to the ground could result in less people driving to the stadium, although there is no way to prove that in the same way there is no way to prove parking will be a problem.

 

Public Disorder: He is stating that four pubs/local businesses have closed down, and is talking about this as if it is a good thing?????? What he sees as public disorder according to how he has worded this, others may see as allowing local business to flourish? They dont want a new ground because they like their derelict pubs as they are, rotting and borded up? What the frig????

 

In a nutshell, if thats the best they can come up with, their f****d.

[laticsmarra]

The argument about property devaluation is ficticious. I bought and sold a house within 5 minutes walk of BP ,the football ground was never mentioned by vendors purchasers or estate agents. In theory many latics fans may be looking for property near the ground, on reflection I think not,the problem is not the ground, but Failsworth. Even in the premiership days the inconvenience was minor, we didn't spend our days moaning about a minor irritation.

 

Anyway I don't want us to move to Failsworth.

 

I was going past Warrington Rugby League ground recently and thought what a good site,right in the heart of the town. Why don't we move somewhere close to town, near the bypass e.g. where the Alexander Retail Park is, surely that could only enhance the area.

[Lookers_Carl]

The argument about property devaluation is ficticious. I bought and sold a house within 5 minutes walk of BP ,the football ground was never mentioned by vendors purchasers or estate agents. In theory many latics fans may be looking for property near the ground, on reflection I think not,the problem is not the ground, but Failsworth. Even in the premiership days the inconvenience was minor, we didn't spend our days moaning about a minor irritation.

 

Anyway I don't want us to move to Failsworth.

 

I was going past Warrington Rugby League ground recently and thought what a good site,right in the heart of the town. Why don't we move somewhere close to town, near the bypass e.g. where the Alexander Retail Park is, surely that could only enhance the area.

 

Because for the ground and facilities to generate income we need thirty acres. That site isnt thirty acres. Several sites were considered such as coal pit lane but were deemed inappropriate.

 

And staying where we are is no longer an option as selling the land around the stadium for housing will no longer generate sufficient income to redevelop the stadium and provide facilities to make us self sufficient. To do this we now need to sell the whole site.