Diego_Sideburns Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I've accepted at face value, over the years, enough of what comes out of the club to have become extra-cautious. I'm not on my own, either. There's many an Oldhamer who remains so cautious that coming anywhere near Sheepfoiot Lane now brings them out in a cold sweat. It's so easy to blame the past for one's unwillingness to get involved, and spend £18/£20, with a view to helping to change the spiral of decline. What ever happened to the Wilf Mannion Fund? And allegations/generalisations like: All Club Directors are in it for their own good! All Councillors are crooks! Edited November 11, 2009 by Diego_Sideburns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Football being the sport it is, I don't think we can completely rule out somehow fluking promotion. However, we are simply not in a position to do anything other than come straight back down. I don't think TTA are in a position to heavily invest in the squad in a (financially risky) attempt to keep us up, and the increase in revenue from gates and other income (new ground or not) simply wouldn't be anywhere near enough to improve the squad sufficiently to avoid relegation. Without significant outside investment, we are - at best - in a similar position to Scunthorpe. A chance of going up, but no chance at all of consolidating in the higher division. And if we go into debt in an attempt to stay up we'd only end up in deeper trouble when we came back down again a season or two later. More realistically, given that TTA will inevitably be leaving within the next few years, and the level of sustainable income likely to be generated for the club either at Failsworth, BP or elsewhere, our best hope is to avoid relegation to League Two. Then, when TTA do sell, the whole cycle might begin again, with our new set of expectations entirely dependent on the level of financial investment our new owners are able and willing to make. Edit - Scunthorpe, not Southend! D'oh! Edited November 11, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 True... but it had already been taken of course before I made my post... Happy to get back on track if others are... Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Now we reach the crux of the matter - some accept in good faith what they're told in public, others prefer to ignore that and operate on rumour and speculation. Each to his own. and others (myself included) prefer to question motives before being satisfied or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Football being the sport it is, I don't think we can completely rule out somehow fluking promotion. However, we are simply not in a position to do anything other than come straight back down. I don't think TTA are in a position to heavily invest in the squad in a (financially risky) attempt to keep us up, and the increase in revenue from gates and other income (new ground or not) simply wouldn't be anywhere near enough to improve the squad sufficiently to avoid relegation. Without significant outside investment, we are - at best - in a similar position to Scunthorpe. A chance of going up, but no chance at all of consolidating in the higher division. And if we go into debt in an attempt to stay up we'd only end up in deeper trouble when we came back down again a season or two later. More realistically, given that TTA will inevitably be leaving within the next few years, and the level of sustainable income likely to be generated for the club either at Failsworth, BP or elsewhere, our best hope is to avoid relegation to League Two. Then, when TTA do sell, the whole cycle might begin again, with our new set of expectations entirely dependent on the level of financial investment our new owners are able and willing to make. Edit - Scunthorpe, not Southend! D'oh! [/quote Who are they going to sell to?............Would you buy a football club with a 12,000 capacity stadium located within 6 miles of the two richest clubs in Europe. I really don't think TTA will be able to sell the club. There has to be the potential for success for any investor to show an interest but I just don't think we would be a viable proposition in our intended location. With the gradual decline in attendances over the last 15 years I fear that without promotion to the championship in the next few years this club will not survive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Who are they going to sell to?............Would you buy a football club with a 12,000 capacity stadium located within 6 miles of the two richest clubs in Europe. I really don't think TTA will be able to sell the club. Did the TTA not buy the club when it was in a worse position five years ago ? Kind of blows up your whole post really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 When the time comes for TTA to put the club up for sale, we must all hope they are in a position to keep their word that they will only sell to a new owner if the deal is in the best interests of the club. (Of course, that is open to interpretation). The fact TTA bought us in a worse state than we are now, and recent investments in lower league clubs by individuals and consortiums with substantial wealth, shows that there will always be buyers out there, but I'm still concerned that we won't be a suitably attractive proposition (a prospective buyer only needs to look at the story of TTA's ownership for the alarm bells to start ringing), and that there is a very real chance we could end up back in the worst case scenario - either in administration or struggling to survive with a (possibly Trust led?!) board that has no money to invest. So, while there is and always will be a chance we'll find a suitable buyer, the possibility that we won't remains very real and very scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Did the TTA not buy the club when it was in a worse position five years ago ? Kind of blows up your whole post really... They badly wanted to buy a football club, probably looked at the land potential and the fact that we had premiership on our CV!! I'm sure if they could turn back the clock they would never of got involved in the first place. I don't consider us to be in better shape now as the ground is falling down, crowds are significantly reduced, and we have had no success on the pitch whatsoever....it's only because of TTA's financial input that we are surviving at all. If they left next week we wouldn't last this season out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Can you specify what will be the triggers for the bet being won or lost please? Promotion or not promotion. What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Several times recently our owners have planned a reduced budget yet ended up spending loads on loan players in a bid to win promotion, and I seem to recall get a couple in from a higher division just last week. Explain please? the players brought in last week were because of injuries and loss of form(keeper) sheehan went back to leeds so we was lightweight in that position. if we bring in a striker this week its because our main striker is out injured for 6 weeks..not because we are going on a promotion drive. if we didnt bring in these players and carry on as we are pretty soon we would be in a relegation battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's so easy to blame the past for one's unwillingness to get involved, and spend £18/£20, with a view to helping to change the spiral of decline. It might be. But that's the way it goes. People aren't generally all that rational. For my part, I've seen enough to know that you can treat what comes out of the club with a pinch of salt, but recognise that staying away only makes the problem worse. I would finally draw the line at fourth division football though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Now we reach the crux of the matter - some accept in good faith what they're told in public, others prefer to ignore that and operate on rumour and speculation. Each to his own. Oh come on, Diego! I've posted this before to illustrate a point, but Tony told us we simply MUST got to war in Iraq.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Football being the sport it is, I don't think we can completely rule out somehow fluking promotion. However, we are simply not in a position to do anything other than come straight back down. I don't think TTA are in a position to heavily invest in the squad in a (financially risky) attempt to keep us up, and the increase in revenue from gates and other income (new ground or not) simply wouldn't be anywhere near enough to improve the squad sufficiently to avoid relegation. Without significant outside investment, we are - at best - in a similar position to Scunthorpe. A chance of going up, but no chance at all of consolidating in the higher division. And if we go into debt in an attempt to stay up we'd only end up in deeper trouble when we came back down again a season or two later. More realistically, given that TTA will inevitably be leaving within the next few years, and the level of sustainable income likely to be generated for the club either at Failsworth, BP or elsewhere, our best hope is to avoid relegation to League Two. Then, when TTA do sell, the whole cycle might begin again, with our new set of expectations entirely dependent on the level of financial investment our new owners are able and willing to make. Edit - Scunthorpe, not Southend! D'oh! You have succinctly explained why a stadium with a capacity of only 12000 is being planned. The two failed play-off campaigns during this decade will come to be seen as the glory years by the younger supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Who are they going to sell to?............Would you buy a football club with a 12,000 capacity stadium located within 6 miles of the two richest clubs in Europe. I really don't think TTA will be able to sell the club. There has to be the potential for success for any investor to show an interest but I just don't think we would be a viable proposition in our intended location. With the gradual decline in attendances over the last 15 years I fear that without promotion to the championship in the next few years this club will not survive! There is no chance of it surviving long-term as anything other than a part-time outfit if the current trajectory is followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Oh come on, Diego! I've posted this before to illustrate a point, but Tony told us we simply MUST got to war in Iraq.............. Never trust a politician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would finally draw the line at fourth division football though. Last time we were in the Fourth Division, we got crowds of 18,000 regularly, but that was before people bought those Premier League shirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Last time we were in the Fourth Division, we got crowds of 18,000 regularly, but that was before people bought those Premier League shirts. last time we was in the fourth division it didnt cost 18/20 quid to get in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 the players brought in last week were because of injuries and loss of form(keeper) sheehan went back to leeds so we was lightweight in that position. if we bring in a striker this week its because our main striker is out injured for 6 weeks..not because we are going on a promotion drive. if we didnt bring in these players and carry on as we are pretty soon we would be in a relegation battle. At least some people still have a grip on reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 They badly wanted to buy a football club, probably looked at the land potential and the fact that we had premiership on our CV!! I'm sure if they could turn back the clock they would never of got involved in the first place. Which would have resulted in liquidation and no more Latics. We've had a reprieve for six years with some glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but many think it's shining on the front of a metro tram heading towards Failsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) last time we was in the fourth division it didnt cost 18/20 quid to get in True. And in any case, you can't get 18000 in a) a three-sided, 10000 capacity BP a 12000 capacity stadium on the edge of Manchester c) at Spotland or Gigg Lane. Edited November 11, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Which would have resulted in liquidation and no more Latics. We've had a reprieve for six years with some glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but many think it's shining on the front of a metro tram heading towards Failsworth. As Tom Waits sang-I'll see you tonight, on that downbound train... (Actually it might have been Springsteen.) Edited November 11, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 the players brought in last week were because of injuries and loss of form(keeper) sheehan went back to leeds so we was lightweight in that position. if we bring in a striker this week its because our main striker is out injured for 6 weeks..not because we are going on a promotion drive. if we didnt bring in these players and carry on as we are pretty soon we would be in a relegation battle. We could perfectly well have used Black or Lomax or Lee, among others, rather than bringing Sheehan and now Hills in, that would be the way if you were looking to minimise costs. We have been adding quality to one of the meanest defences in the division, Brill included! Just like we’ve added or tried to add quality ever since TTA have been here, did we bring Windarse, Byfield and all the rest in at the end of last season to reduce costs and avoid promotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 We could perfectly well have used Black or Lomax or Lee, among others, rather than bringing Sheehan and now Hills in, that would be the way if you were looking to minimise costs. We have been adding quality to one of the meanest defences in the division, Brill included! Just like we’ve added or tried to add quality ever since TTA have been here, did we bring Windarse, Byfield and all the rest in at the end of last season to reduce costs and avoid promotion? who said we were looking to minimise costs....i was posting a reply to why we brought these players in recently if we wasnt going for promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Never trust a politician. And you aren't even slightly worried that it seems to be the council (who previously wouldn't have pissed on us if we were on fire) have suddenly facilitated this move by the transferring of land etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 We could perfectly well have used Black or Lomax or Lee, among others, rather than bringing Sheehan and now Hills in, that would be the way if you were looking to minimise costs. We have been adding quality to one of the meanest defences in the division, Brill included! Just like we’ve added or tried to add quality ever since TTA have been here, did we bring Windarse, Byfield and all the rest in at the end of last season to reduce costs and avoid promotion? It's a half-arsed, after-the-horse-has-bolted approach to promotion at best, bringing in medicocre players, untried, unwanted or not needed at Championship clubs, and expecting them to fit in and the team to gel. Before this has hapened said loanees are off again. A real promotion bid would involve signing the right (quality) players in the close season on long-term contracts, with a view to their forming a core around which a Championship side could be built. (You know-like what happened in t'olden days.) It probably involves paying transfer fees. Those who say TTA can't or are unwilling to fund this are probably right. Which explains why the club is planning a permanent lower division future. The current approach has been tried several times. The result will inevitably be the same. And anyway, as EdHunter says, the current players are here primarily with a view to halting a slide down the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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