Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 If only I could think of an example of a club that has got promotion to the Championship with a ground capacity of 12,000 or less. You know, like Scunthorpe or Blackpool. I just can't. Despite the fact that we survived comfortably for an unbroken quarter century in the second-tier (and above), and despite the fact that similar clubs in similar towns manage to be successful in the modern game, the proposed building of a 12000-seater stadium seems to suggest that there are no plans to do so again. A fleeting brush with the next level up is the club's best case scenario now, although it's unlikely. Only a small number of minnow clubs manage it and, with Colchester, Scunthorpe and Southend all having their brush with those heady heights in recent years, the quota has probably been filled. As usual, Latics miss the boat. It comes to something when OAFC's belated Plan B involves downscaling the club in order to try to be as successful as those historically smaller clubs who have passed us by in recent times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 No we can't, the Corp said so......and then Zero agreed with him. You don't have to take my word for it. Just wait and see. In the meantime, carry on thinking small. The club will get smaller still as a result, but don't let it stop you if that's what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) There is no need for 16,000 seats in League One. Exactly the point. Probably no need for 16000 in League Two either. Edited November 10, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 If its simple AND we can raise the money ? Hang on, are you saying it's a more financially prudent approach to spend £4m (or £2m if we're lucky) on 4000 extra seats when we don't yet need them, because when we do need them we will not be able to get the finance? You're talking to the wrong finance people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 And the lower tiers of seating, being below ground level, will be very cosy. Knowing Latics they'll forget to supply the necessary periscopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hang on, are you saying it's a more financially prudent approach to spend £4m (or £2m if we're lucky) on 4000 extra seats when we don't yet need them, because when we do need them we will not be able to get the finance? You're talking to the wrong finance people. What I am saying is it is all fine and well saying we can expand as required but you need the money to expand... Lets say in five years time having been in our new stadium for two years we go up and we need 16,000... We need to find the money to build, as well as strengthen the team... You can bang on all day about more money from TV etc but its not likely to come to £4 Million... The idea of expanding seems to be dependent upon big pots of cash turning up long after TTA have gone... That was my worry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Knowing Latics they'll forget to supply the necessary periscopes.... ....and wellies for treading water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.O.B. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 What I am saying is it is all fine and well saying we can expand as required but you need the money to expand... Lets say in five years time having been in our new stadium for two years we go up and we need 16,000... We need to find the money to build, as well as strengthen the team... You can bang on all day about more money from TV etc but its not likely to come to £4 Million... The idea of expanding seems to be dependent upon big pots of cash turning up long after TTA have gone... That was my worry... We won't need 16000, we're destined for a life of gloom in 'the lower leagues'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 We won't need 16000, we're destined for a life of gloom in 'the lower leagues'. You, like many on here, seem far from gloomy about the prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.O.B. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 You, like many on here, seem far from gloomy about the prospect. Look, what goes on with the people who own the club I have no control over. Your point is a valid one, which has been stressed eternally. The fact is whatever TTA do it'll still be OAFC and I'll be supporting them. Nothing to do with happy clappers or doom and gloomers, just plain supporting my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Look, what goes on with the people who own the club I have no control over. Your point is a valid one, which has been stressed eternally. The fact is whatever TTA do it'll still be OAFC and I'll be supporting them. Nothing to do with happy clappers or doom and gloomers, just plain supporting my team. So will I. I've been doing it for 37 years (if you leave out a few years living abroad.) However, if the club has given up on the idea of trying to establish itself in the Championship, I doubt if I'll continue as a season ticket holder as opposed to picking and choosing my games. There has to come a time when you cut your losses, and the club has done enough taking the p1ss in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes-so pleased that I've spent three months complaining about it. No need to speculate about what a 12000 stadium, built in a rush as a last minute, take it or leave it option when all else has failed, will look like really. Built in a rush as a last minute? You know nothing about when they decided this and you have no idea who we are working with to build it. You don't know anything at all about it, you just took the worst case scenario and made it your prediction and it was something that was quite likely (I mean seriously it can go one of three ways and that's about it). Then now it happens to be how things have turned out, you seem more intent on saying 'i told you so' than actually taking in the fact that this is a bad thing. Congratulations though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Built in a rush as a last minute? You know nothing about when they decided this and you have no idea who we are working with to build it. You don't know anything at all about it, you just took the worst case scenario and made it your prediction and it was something that was quite likely (I mean seriously it can go one of three ways and that's about it). Then now it happens to be how things have turned out, you seem more intent on saying 'i told you so' than actually taking in the fact that this is a bad thing. Congratulations though. I know as much as we've been told. I know, for instance, that for much of this year we were told that the BP redevelopment was still going ahead as planned. Then strange things started happening. We were told that a new stadium, to be shared with 'another local club' was in the offing. A temporary groundshare with 'a local club' was hinted at. Then the Broadway project was unveiled (with a full quarter of the BP redevelopment capacity lopped off without discussion) without so much as a word of warning. And not only that-the project was already in its planning stages with the council on board. A public meeting with ready-made answers to all the obvious questions was cobbled together before most people had had time to digest the news. They've been like blue-arsed flies with it, compared to how the previous stadium schemes dragged on. And blue-arsed flies are known for rushing about. I actually managed to 'take in the fact' that this was a bad thing as soon as it was revealed that a 12000 limit was to be placed on the capacity. You didn't though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I actually managed to 'take in the fact' that this was a bad thing as soon as it was revealed that a 12000 limit was to be placed on the capacity. You didn't though. I never said 12000 was a good thing. I just saw ways of making it work for us, you didn't, the black clouds that make you see everything that way are probably just cataracts though. When they announced 12000 capacity it wasn't the end of the debate, that's just how you saw it. If you bet on tails everytime, sometimes it comes up, it doesn't mean you had foresight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I actually managed to 'take in the fact' that this was a bad thing as soon as it was revealed that a 12000 limit was to be placed on the capacity. You didn't though. When has it been revealed that it will be a limit of 12000? your making an assumption based on f*** all at the moment as there is nothing to base this guess on. So far all we know is that there will be a new stadium in Failsworth that will initially hold 12000 and it will be designed so it can be expanded, to what extent it can be expanded to I don't know you dont know and at this point maybe the owners, designers and builders may not even know yet. But if you would like to express your dissapointment about this without knowing anything but assumptions rather than FACT, you keep on doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Looking back with nostalgia....Boundary Park was purchased on 7 November 1913 at a cost of £3000. (Latics had been leasing the ground from 1905). P.S.According to measuringworth.com, using the RPI that's the equivalent of about £1.7 million today. Edited November 11, 2009 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 The thing is, Corp conventiently ignores the fact that building a 16,000 seater does not guarantee us from eternity in the lower leagues. So, ambition is fine, but it achieves nought. And the fact that buiding a 12k stadium with sustainability planned in could actually free up much needed funds for the playing side and give a chance of getting out of this god forsaken league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 The thing is, Corp conventiently ignores the fact that building a 16,000 seater does not guarantee us from eternity in the lower leagues. So, ambition is fine, but it achieves nought. And the fact that buiding a 12k stadium with sustainability planned in could actually free up much needed funds for the playing side and give a chance of getting out of this god forsaken league. You point about getting out of this league in a 12k stadium which is sustainability planned is a very good point. BUT (isnt there always ) Once in the Championship and you want to make the push towards the prem / just stay in the league...it is then you find that a 12k stadium comes back and bites you in the arse. No doubt you will say we will simply expand. So where do you find the millions needed for the expansion AND the money to bulk up the squad ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 When has it been revealed that it will be a limit of 12000? your making an assumption based on f*** all at the moment as there is nothing to base this guess on. So far all we know is that there will be a new stadium in Failsworth that will initially hold 12000 and it will be designed so it can be expanded, to what extent it can be expanded to I don't know you dont know and at this point maybe the owners, designers and builders may not even know yet. But if you would like to express your dissapointment about this without knowing anything but assumptions rather than FACT, you keep on doing so. From the Forum ( or as CJ prefers to call it, "A public meeting with ready-made answers to all the obvious questions was cobbled together before most people had had time to digest the news" on 10th August: Q's: How far can the expansion go? A's: AH - How far do you want it to go? Q's: 18K as our premiership attendance? A's: AH - easy - the architects know that we have to be able to expand if we need the room, expansion is at the forefront of the stadium design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Diego: From the Forum ( or as CJ prefers to call it, "A public meeting with ready-made answers to all the obvious questions was cobbled together before most people had had time to digest the news" on 10th August: Interesting quote that: 1. I certaintly credit plenty of people who went with enough sense to think on their feet. It was not like it was announced at the meeting, it was weeks before. I credit CJ with the ability to think on his feet also. 2. CJ told he he foresaw this when the oringinal plans were announced, and also onumberous times after and prior to the meeting, he recalls that he was a lone visonary in this regard. Has History been rewritten before our very eyes, just to make an argument seem more valid? Edited November 11, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I never said 12000 was a good thing. I just saw ways of making it work for us, you didn't, the black clouds that make you see everything that way are probably just cataracts though. When they announced 12000 capacity it wasn't the end of the debate, that's just how you saw it. If you bet on tails everytime, sometimes it comes up, it doesn't mean you had foresight. I had the foresight to predict that the recession meant the end of the BP redevelopment plan when those who now cheer loudest for the small stadium in Failsworth were adamant that it would still go ahead. I also said that it would be replaced by a plan for an inferior development, and that a 'temporary' ground share might be in the offing. It's all there in my posting history if you're bored. Don't be sad; two out of three ain't bad. (Or will it be three out of three?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) When has it been revealed that it will be a limit of 12000? your making an assumption based on f*** all at the moment as there is nothing to base this guess on. So far all we know is that there will be a new stadium in Failsworth that will initially hold 12000 and it will be designed so it can be expanded, to what extent it can be expanded to I don't know you dont know and at this point maybe the owners, designers and builders may not even know yet. But if you would like to express your dissapointment about this without knowing anything but assumptions rather than FACT, you keep on doing so. It won't be expanded because the planning of a 12000 stadium in the first place means that the club is not expecting to ever again regularly play the kind of games where more than 12000 seats will be needed. This is a stadium for survival at the lower end of the game. Think about it-we still managed to attract more than 12000 on numerous occasions during the last disastrous decade-and-a-half. It saddens me that it's necessary to have to constantly reiterate the obvious for the benefit of those who are incapable of thinking. Edited November 11, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It won't be expanded because the planning of a 12000 stadium in the first place means that the club is not expecting to ever again regularly play the kind of games where more than 12000 seats will be needed. This is a stadium for survival at the lower end of the game. What if they cock up the planning and get promoted without trying to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It saddens me that it's necessary to have to constantly reiterate the obvious for the benefit of those who are incapable of thinking. Cheer up. When the "obvious" happens we'll all apologise to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Cheer up. When the "obvious" happens we'll all apologise to you. Doubtful... Did not happen the last couple of time he has been right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.