Corporal_Jones Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Why is it that all these so called crap managers are always decent enough for other clubs?? OAFC, (the board, the players and its supporters) need to take a good, long, hard look at themselves first, before yet another manager doesn't get given a fair go. This club is pretty much unmanageable and has been for over 10 years. Looking for scapegoats season after season just isn't working. Why don't these sensible posters we occasionally get to see not grace this place more often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Pizza Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yep, Penney must go......and sign a couple of new players. I like Penney, here's why. In the few months he's been here he signed some good players: Abbott, Furman. And then loaned :censored: and Blackman. He's shown he can turn things around in a match: Colchester. He's shown we can go away to big teams and get something: Charlton. He's signed Abbott & :censored: that are good. Furman is over-rated. So has most other managers that have been here, Croft, Kilkenny, Hughes, Porter, Wellens etc etc He's turned one game around against 10 men wow?! what about all the times we've gone 1-0 down as recent as Huddersfield, Gillingham, Leeds & Walsall within the last couple of weeks. We've gone to Charlton and got a decent point fair enough, we did that many times under other managers, Leicester? a point against Charlton is worth as much as a point against Stockport though. Those points you made aren't the greatest tbh. I questioned Penney tonight, its drab and dull, we lack passion and threat, do i want Penney out? Not sure he's had 20 games or so now, thats a decent crack at the whip, 2 defeats against Norwich & Leeds could see us be in our worst position after 20 games in league one? think we've scored the least number of goals we ever have as well at this stage of a season in league one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Oi! Let my rant go! It took long enough to construct and not only do I feel that it was within board rules but I think my opponent can take an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Those points you made aren't the greatest tbh. I questioned Penney tonight, its drab and dull, we lack passion and threat, do i want Penney out? Not sure he's had 20 games or so now, thats a decent crack at the whip, 2 defeats against Norwich & Leeds could see us be in our worst position after 20 games in league one? think we've scored the least number of goals we ever have as well at this stage of a season in league one. I agree with you here - I went last night. Wallsall were dire, but miles better than us in all areas. We can't just have a revolving door for managers, but the current tactics reminds me of the team Graeme Sharp "built" which eventually got us relegated from the division above. With regards injuries, Abbott aside, I can't see any player coming in and making a difference. With regards the budget - yes it's tight, but I'm sure we could have done better than a load of 2nd division players and Huddersfield reserves. If we have precious finances to spend in the transfer market, was Joe Colebeck really the best we could have paid for?? Everyone had a go at some of Sheridan's signings, but at least you can see why some of them were made - for example Kalala had played a vital role in getting Yeovil to the play-off final in the previous season. The best players in the team at the moment are those left behind by Sheridan - a spine maybe for someone else to build on. Penny, it appears at the moment, has taken us backwards. Willing to give Penny some time, but changes need to be made to the team quickley and I only hope his theory that we don't need another striker was a badly articulated way of saying we actually don't the budget to bring in a striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Do we need a striker? Or do we need to ensure our wingers pull teams wide whilst pushing forward as a unit, and we get two forwards in the box every time we attack, with Furman backing them up. For me, it's the simple tactics that are letting us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) . Edited November 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 heres one for you .... imagine what DP could have done with Talbots, Moores budgets !!! ?? !!! But he hasn't. I suspect he knew what he'd have when he came in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 When Dave Penney came in he was a decent manager and nothing has changed. It takes time for a manager to deliver what he wants. I accept that there is often an upsurge at first but ultimately it will take time to get to where he wants to be. We all want to see as good football and some good results in this transition period but we have to show patience. Shez was given time and unfortunately couldn't quite get it to a level that the fans and owners were happy with. Previous managers were not given the time to judge one way or the other. We have to show patience with Dave otherwise we will never achieve anything as we will be constantly jumping from manager to manager. As for the owners, I would love them to plough a load of cash in but it just isn't there. I am not sure what people want them to do. I have questioned a number of their decisions but I can't slate them for not putting more money in. They are still meeting our losses and putting some money in for new signings. It'd be great to think that someone with bags of money would come in and take over but this is not exactly likely. TTA have made no secret that if someone wants to come and invest, their door is always open. What more can they really do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOUSELATIC Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 When Dave Penney came in he was a decent manager and nothing has changed. It takes time for a manager to deliver what he wants. I accept that there is often an upsurge at first but ultimately it will take time to get to where he wants to be. We all want to see as good football and some good results in this transition period but we have to show patience. Shez was given time and unfortunately couldn't quite get it to a level that the fans and owners were happy with. Previous managers were not given the time to judge one way or the other. We have to show patience with Dave otherwise we will never achieve anything as we will be constantly jumping from manager to manager. As for the owners, I would love them to plough a load of cash in but it just isn't there. I am not sure what people want them to do. I have questioned a number of their decisions but I can't slate them for not putting more money in. They are still meeting our losses and putting some money in for new signings. It'd be great to think that someone with bags of money would come in and take over but this is not exactly likely. TTA have made no secret that if someone wants to come and invest, their door is always open. What more can they really do? John Wardle wanted to invest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 John Wardle wanted to invest. I would love to know why that didn't come to fruition actually...... was it because he wanted too many shares than TTA were prepared to let go for his investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 John Wardle wanted to invest. Did he really though? Or did he just show an interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Who do you people want in instead of Penney? Genuine question! I'm guessing it will be someone along the lines of Royle ? Ritchie ? Sharp ? Maybe give Dux ago ? Paul Warne he had the heart?! Give Shez a 2nd chance? Its gotta be someone with blue blood running through their veins though yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Who do you people want in instead of Penney? There is only one person asking for his head isnt there? Lets knock this on its head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 There is only one person asking for his head isnt there? Lets knock this on its head... Sorry it was badly worded I didnt mean everyone in this thread of course:) I can imagine there is more than just one person who thinks Penney should go though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Sorry it was badly worded I didnt mean everyone in this thread of course:) I can imagine there is more than just one person who thinks Penney should go though. I think the ground swell of opinion is SOOOO small though its really not worth engaging. The danger is one or two posters saying sack him, most argue against and a few sit on the fence. Next day, because the sit on the fence guys are just trying to make valid points but the people that back penny say they just doom and gloomers there stance hardens and they all of a sudden arguing why penney should go, much to the excitement of the backers. Fast forward a month and its hell for leather other nothing... It happens so very often... and its going to happen with Penney unless where in the top half. I grantee it. Seen it happen with Talbot, Moore and Shez... Just saying, to be already on to a discussion about a replacement is not what we should be debating. Nothing good will come of it... Mark my words Edited November 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Sorry it was badly worded I didnt mean everyone in this thread of course:) I can imagine there is more than just one person who thinks Penney should go though. I think that even the numb skulls have realised that just sacking Penney and getting a new manager in isn't the answer to our problems anymore. As a kid seeing our attendances dwindle I always wondered how people could lose that association with the football club they loved so much. Now im 24 and have supported the Latics since I was 6 years old....I am still a kid with very few other responsibilities like wife and kids and even I have lost association this year....I even forgot we were playing last night and didnt hear the result until on the radio this morning...For a guy who has had a season ticket for 12 years and travelled home and away regularly...looking forward to every Saturday just for the boys in blue its a sad state of affairs at the club.. There has been no Buzz what so ever this year...we have not been told any of the clubs expectations on the pitch other than we want to get enough points to avoid relegation first, this hardly gets you inspired. It was always going to be a year of averageness but that unfortunately means the fans after putting up with league 1 for 11 years lose that interest and desire.... There needs a full turn around and if moving to Failsworth is our only shot at a new injection to this dieing club then so be it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Three play off shouts... Not too bad... He should never have been sacked with 9 games to go... I heard shortly after Shez's departure, that he'd gripped our chairman by the throat during a disagreement and that was the overriding reason for his sacking. Bad form and the dogs were the catalyst for the exchange. It sounds highly unlikely to me but in the absence of a far-fetched explanation such as this, I can't fathom why he was sacked with so few games to go either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) I heard shortly after Shez's departure, that he'd gripped our chairman by the throat during a disagreement and that was the overriding reason for his sacking. Bad form and the dogs were the catalyst for the exchange. It sounds highly unlikely to me but in the absence of a far-fetched explanation such as this, I can't fathom why he was sacked with so few games to go either. I hear a lot of things... How much of it is true ? Such an action would of been gross misconduct and he would of been sacked on those terms and not paid off. I find it hard to believe. Edited November 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 There is only one person asking for his head isnt there? Lets knock this on its head... Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I hear a lot of things... How much of it is true ? Such an action would of been gross misconduct and he would of been sacked on those terms and not paid off. I find it hard to believe. I'm with you. I'm only posting this now as a few have questioned his departure (me included). The claim came from one of his golf buddies via a mate of mine. I trust my mate but do not know the original source so I'm happy to dismiss it as bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) As a kid seeing our attendances dwindle I always wondered how people could lose that association with the football club they loved so much. Now im 24 and have supported the Latics since I was 6 years old....I am still a kid with very few other responsibilities like wife and kids and even I have lost association this year....I even forgot we were playing last night and didnt hear the result until on the radio this morning...For a guy who has had a season ticket for 12 years and travelled home and away regularly...looking forward to every Saturday just for the boys in blue its a sad state of affairs at the club.. That sounds pretty familiar..... Anyway, I thought Barry's comments were a good platform to begin a decent messageboard debate, but as the relevant thread has been locked (seemingly in defence of oafc0000, despite him being the first to antagonise by dismissing an indisputable comment as idiotic) I'll have to post my comments on this related thread.... So, a member of the board has confirmed that there is little, if anything, between JS's and DP's respective playing budgets. I therefore plead with those who imagined otherwise to not reiterate their rubbish ever again. For the sake of my sanity, let us all try and remember Barry's 'bombshell'. For me it's starting to look more and more like sacking Shez was the wrong decision (incidentally Chesterfield have won 7 of their last 9 and are amongst the divisions top scorers), however we have moved on and must now support DP. He is struggling with injuries (though probably not to the extent Shez did when he finished 8th) but hopefully the Heffernan rumours are true and he can get it sorted sooner rather than later. I think DP will get it right, but this is far too crucial a time in the club's life for us to be playing boring football and getting beaten infront of 3/4k - I myself have already missed more home games this season than I have done in the previous decade. Seeing as it's becoming desperate times I do intend to get my act together and get down there for every game but it really shouldn't feel like such a chore/duty. Finally, I wonder if all the Shez bashers who used to give it "I'd sooner see commited players get beaten than this bunch of blah blah blah..." have been turning up? Edited November 25, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 When Dave Penney came in he was a decent manager and nothing has changed. It takes time for a manager to deliver what he wants. I accept that there is often an upsurge at first but ultimately it will take time to get to where he wants to be. We all want to see as good football and some good results in this transition period but we have to show patience. Shez was given time and unfortunately couldn't quite get it to a level that the fans and owners were happy with. Previous managers were not given the time to judge one way or the other. We have to show patience with Dave otherwise we will never achieve anything as we will be constantly jumping from manager to manager. As for the owners, I would love them to plough a load of cash in but it just isn't there. I am not sure what people want them to do. I have questioned a number of their decisions but I can't slate them for not putting more money in. They are still meeting our losses and putting some money in for new signings. It'd be great to think that someone with bags of money would come in and take over but this is not exactly likely. TTA have made no secret that if someone wants to come and invest, their door is always open. What more can they really do? How do you know it isn't there? Because that is what TTA have said? If you believe that then fine, me, I would put my last $ on that there is more money there but they are reluctant to release it, leaving us in limbo in this league, don't try and tell me that they don't have any money, speculate to accumulate, they saved the club, yup, woopy bloody do, I'm sure the ground they walk on has been more than worshipped to death on more than one occasion, the time to get the cash out was the beginning of the season and not nearing xmas time bringing in various loan players. So you decide....has Penney spent the budget he was allocated at the start of the season, has he saved some for a rainy day and has he spent that money wisely and on what level was the budget competitive to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) How do you know it isn't there? Because that is what TTA have said? If you believe that then fine, me, I would put my last $ on that there is more money there but they are reluctant to release it, leaving us in limbo in this league, don't try and tell me that they don't have any money, speculate to accumulate, they saved the club, yup, woopy bloody do, I'm sure the ground they walk on has been more than worshipped to death on more than one occasion, the time to get the cash out was the beginning of the season and not nearing xmas time bringing in various loan players. So you decide....has Penney spent the budget he was allocated at the start of the season, has he saved some for a rainy day and has he spent that money wisely and on what level was the budget competitive to? We know DP is working to the same budget that JS was. JS mange to build a team capable of promotion. Lets give it to March and then review it all then. As for the TTA and budgets, I think they put enough in for team building. Edited November 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 When Dave Penney came in he was a decent manager and nothing has changed. It takes time for a manager to deliver what he wants. I accept that there is often an upsurge at first but ultimately it will take time to get to where he wants to be. We all want to see as good football and some good results in this transition period but we have to show patience. Shez was given time and unfortunately couldn't quite get it to a level that the fans and owners were happy with. Previous managers were not given the time to judge one way or the other. We have to show patience with Dave otherwise we will never achieve anything as we will be constantly jumping from manager to manager. As for the owners, I would love them to plough a load of cash in but it just isn't there. I am not sure what people want them to do. I have questioned a number of their decisions but I can't slate them for not putting more money in. They are still meeting our losses and putting some money in for new signings. It'd be great to think that someone with bags of money would come in and take over but this is not exactly likely. TTA have made no secret that if someone wants to come and invest, their door is always open. What more can they really do? My problem with Penny so far is that there hasn't really been any sign of what he's aiming towards. We entered a transition period when we appointed Shez as manager, with a long-term goal of Shez forming a good team, etc like we have with Penny. With Shez, though, the players he brought in seemed to be a lot closer to the finished product than what Penny has done so far. Our current transitional period looks like it's going to be a very long one, with even a relegation thrown in between. To be fair, last night it actually looked like Penny had realised that 4-5-1 wasn't working and the 4-4-2 we started with worked well for the first 10 minutes and we came close to scoring a couple of times, but when we went one down and had a man sent off, we went back to one up front. Now obviously being down to 10 men is a massive disadvantage, but we didn't even have a go. We were basically playing for damange limitation, which was really depressing. I don't blame TTA. They seem to have made solid appointments and I'm not sure I'd trust Penny with much more investment with the players he's brought in so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Dave Penney: Pros: Organised team Good team spirit (off the pitch) Has got the best out of the team. Cons: Offer nothing in attack Made some very questionable signings* Hasn’t got the best out of individuals * Brill – less said the better Parker – awful Worthington – Just seems to run around getting booked Holdsworth – definitely no replacement for Eardley Colbeck – seems to be improving but still not adding anything to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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