Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Wasn't Joe Royle supposed to perform that role at the end of last season? Ritchie alone, trying to make do with the usual bunch of quickly-passing-through journeymen and loanees, is likely to have little more success than the present manager or previous ones. We need a stable core of capable players who will lead the push towards promotion, good enough to form the basis of the squad for several years. Unfortunately, the club seems unable or unwilling to fund that. Sheridan, Eyres, Carrs, Eyre, Duxbury, Allott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Sheridan, Eyres, Carrs, Eyre, Duxbury, Allott Usual as in as things have stood in more recent times is what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Usual as in as things have stood in more recent times is what I meant. OK but you actually used the phrase "Ritchie alone, trying to make do with the usual bunch of quickly-passing-through journeymen and loanees" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 In reference to the current bunch, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Wasn't Joe Royle supposed to perform that role at the end of last season? Ritchie alone, trying to make do with the usual bunch of quickly-passing-through journeymen and loanees, is likely to have little more success than the present manager or previous ones. I think Royle did, to some extent. Despite not winning a single game, the atmosphere and numbers at Wallsall on the last day of the season was superb. I think Mr Bean would have more success than our present manager, but that's for another topic...... Edited January 5, 2010 by JoeP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 OK but you actually used the phrase "Ritchie alone, trying to make do with the usual bunch of quickly-passing-through journeymen and loanees" It's obvious what I meant, though. After all, he would hardly be having to make do with the very same players he had back then, would he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 When royle was brought in crowds went up dramatically. His 1st game v bin dippers was electric til we went goal down. there was pride in the club and the town. The place was buzzing and even non-latics wished us well. what latics need is a manager like what stockport had in gannon, peterborough had in fergie jnr n wigan had in jewell. A young passionate manager who can relate to the fans. we had (imo) this with ritchie before he was unfairly sacked. Given the chance he would have taken us up without spending asmuch as what wadsworth/dowie spent and played decent footy at the same time. Whether he could do that now, i don't know but it could be worth a shot if the decision to sack penny was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 There has been much on this thread that has set my grey matter motoring, I would love to see the data for ST holders across the last say 10 years across things like their age profile and any other information that is held, like first game attended and so on, if it could be linked from questionnaires. Obviously without breaching Data Protection but I reckon I might be able to get a rough idea how much our decline is potentially due to the statistical bump from our rise (especially new kids) during the wonder seasons vs the rubbish ones before and after. It may be a factor, although not one that changes the fact that we would have better attendances if we attempted to score goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It seems obvious that the trust is the answer... It's not that obvious. If the trust is the answer, what is the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) This years current average league attendance... (Cups not included for a fair comparison) ...DRUM ROLL PLEASE... 5346 I think we all would agree this is a bit high compared to the real hard truth so it needs adjusting a bit if you want take a fair comparison against Ritchie's time here I feel... if you take away the freak Exeter game... its goes down to... 5257 And if you take away the fact we played Leeds who bring a unusually large following.. 4976 But playing with the numbers like this is always going to attract criticism... I am just after the truth... What is fair to say though is that the effect of the large game against Leeds is propping the numbers up a bit at the moment because we are looking at just 11 games...so not taking it into account will probably give a more real reflection as their was no "Leeds" in our divison back in 2001... The stoke attendance is similar to this years Hudds attendance... The numbers are also propped up a little by the opening game against Stockport... Which would also be diluted if we was looking at full season but I aint going to fiddle that much as people will just get on my back. All said and done I would say the numbers are about the same as under Ritchie... Average in Ritchies last full year : 4.972 EDIT: Change the numbers a bit, messed my calc up EDIT 2: Changed my summary... Should be the last edit now Edited January 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.O.B. Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 This years current average league attendance... (Cups not included for a fair comparison) ...DRUM ROLL PLEASE... 5346 I think we all would agree this is a bit high compared to the real hard truth so it needs adjusting a bit if you want take a fair comparison against Ritchie's time here I feel... if you take away the freak Exeter game... its goes down to... 5257 And if you take away the fact we played Leeds who bring a unusually large following.. 4976 But playing with the numbers like this is always going to attract criticism... I am just after the truth... What is fair to say though is that the effect of the large game against Leeds is propping the numbers up a bit at the moment because we are looking at just 11 games...so not taking it into account will probably give a more real reflection as their was no "Leeds" in our divison back in 2001... The stoke attendance is similar to this years Hudds attendance... The numbers are also propped up a little by the opening game against Stockport... Which would also be diluted if we was looking at full season but I aint going to fiddle that much as people will just get on my back. All said and done I would say the numbers are about the same as under Ritchie... Average in Ritchies last full year : 4.972 EDIT: Change the numbers a bit, messed my calc up EDIT 2: Changed my summary... Should be the last edit now But the difference with the stoke attendance is they filled the RRE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Stoke attendance was 9,359 00/01 Hudds attendance was 8,569 09/10 Its not going to make a massive difference when it comes to averages... Feel free to have a go yourself... Just taking the raw average 11 games in though produce a unfair result, the league also has bigger teams in it this year compared to 01, you have to offset in some way... I think the summary is though is that attendance is around what it was under Ritchie... Maybe a bit higher... You would hope it is higher considering we have had three season of trying to get promoted compared to Ritchie who was working on no money and trying to stop the rot. ............................................. If anyone has the numbers just for home support that would be a more interesting to work with... As it is home support we are really after... Edited January 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Great work 0000, and I can see you trying to be fair about the Leeds thing. that coudl be debated for a while in itself. It is intersting to compare the teams int he division, becuase so many Southern based teams must have an effect onth e attendance in terms of the nubmers they bring and our fans being fired up for a derby. your Ritchie figures might be interesting without te Stoke gate. In summary the number of, IMO, Leeds type exception gates are 2000/1 Stoke-9359, Wigan-7,790, Bury 9though not great was 5,500 2009/10 Exeter-6230, Leeds-7793 So : 2000/1 Millwall Rotherham Reading Walsall Stoke Wigan Bournemouth Notts Co Bristol C Wrexham Port Vale Peterborough Wycombe Brentford Oldham Bury Colchester Northampton Cambridge U Swindon Bristol R Luton Swansea Oxford v Leeds Norwich Charlton Colchester Huddersfield Swindon Millwall MK Dons Bristol R Walsall Hartlepool Brentford Southend Southampton Yeovil Carlisle Gillingham Exeter Oldham Brighton Leyton Orient Tranmere Wycombe Stockport EDIT Just seen you second post I have not got time today, plannig for the snow tonight/tommorw but maybe the average taking out the top and bottom 2 attendances? The two extremes? Edited January 6, 2010 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) 2000/1 Stoke-9359, Wigan-7,790, Bury 9though not great was 5,500 It is probably fair to leave Leeds in then considering the Wigan turnout... So 5257 is probably closer to the mark... I can see this average dropping towards the end of the season though so I think a summary of slightly better than Ritchie is probably fair. But you have to factor in the three good season we have just had compared to the bad seasons before Ritchie took over I suppose. The results are a lot more positive than I thought they would be. I thought it was better under Ritchie... Its about the same all said and done... Edited January 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowl Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It is probably fair to leave Leeds in then considering the Wigan turnout... So 5257 is probably closer to the mark... I can see this average dropping towards the end of the season though so I think a summary of slightly better than Ritchie is probably fair. But you have to factor in the three good season we have just had compared to the bad seasons before Ritchie took over I suppose. The results are a lot more positive than I thought they would be. I thought it was better under Ritchie... Its about the same all said and done... What about the outcome of last season though? or the fact we have been crap at home all of last year? I think people have more reason not to come now, than what they did under Ritchie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) What about the outcome of last season though? or the fact we have been crap at home all of last year? I think people have more reason not to come now, than what they did under Ritchie. It depends on which way you want to look at it. Football wise we have had three fantastic years. You could argue the time under Moores was not bad considering the steady improvement in league position. Under Shez the play off attempts have been good. Last season we saw average of 5.636 which was 5.8% up on the year before. So being crap at home all season dose not seem to have factored...although I dispute we was all that crap "all season". Now we turn our attention to off the field matters. Shez sacked without closeur (being able to end the season), Joes fire sale and more questions over TTA ability to make the right calls at the right time. Then we have Failsworth and the disaster outcome of Oldham Arena. So you are probably talking +3 regarding the football and -3 regarding off the field activities. Evening things out... So we start this season and things go bad under DP and the crowds start to slip... and that slip is looking bad if you take away Leeds and Exeter... What an important January to March this is going to be for the club... These three months could shape the next three years... I do think people had more hope under Ritchie... Edited January 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (oafc0000 @ Jan 6 2010, 09:45 AM) It is probably fair to leave Leeds in then considering the Wigan turnout... So 5257 is probably closer to the mark... I can see this average dropping towards the end of the season though so I think a summary of slightly better than Ritchie is probably fair. But you have to factor in the three good season we have just had compared to the bad seasons before Ritchie took over I suppose. The results are a lot more positive than I thought they would be. I thought it was better under Ritchie... Its about the same all said and done... What about the outcome of last season though? or the fact we have been crap at home all of last year? I think people have more reason not to come now, than what they did under Ritchie. I tihnk your summary is very fair 0000. And bowl I think you are right about more reaons not to come now, but boy did everyone moan about the team of crpa players and poor tactics Ritchie had. In summary, Not much different his season than this season IMHO. SO for the TTA, if the team are crap and play crap Latics fans dessert BP in droves. Edited January 6, 2010 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 SO for the TTA, if the team are crap and play crap Latics fans dessert BP in droves. Ignore this at your peril, TTA. It's no trifling matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I do think people had more hope under Ritchie... Which is exactly what I'm trying to get at. Even if the average is the same now as under Ritchie, there now seems to be an element of the "Faithful 4,500" that are losing their connection with the club. We lose them, we effectivley lose our core support. Then we really would be screwed. I know there are other elements why people aren't turning up, but I think what happens with the team is crucial. If you retain the interest of the hardcore fan and there is a bit of belief around the place, then surely that's a good foundation to build on when it comes to matters such as Failsworth, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 If you retain the interest of the hardcore fan and there is a bit of belief around the place, then surely that's a good foundation to build on when it comes to matters such as Failsworth, etc. I think the Failsworth issue though is impacting on those "faithful" to the club... For me it is more off the field things that have got to me than on the field... I am used to Latics being crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 If you retain the interest of the hardcore fan and there is a bit of belief around the place That will only happen with a winning team on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I think the Failsworth issue though is impacting on those "faithful" to the club... For me it is more off the field things that have got to me than on the field... I am used to Latics being crap... But like I say, it's the football team we support, so why use this as a reason not to attend? Also, the faithful who have seen the club through so much, I reckon, would be back once they re-discovered identity with the team, or the team improved. I'm not sure how bothered the faithful are anyway about the move to Failsworth - other than your regulars on here, no one seemed enraged enough to go and make any sort of protest at the public meeting about the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I'm not sure how bothered the faithful are anyway about the move to Failsworth - other than your regulars on here, no one seemed enraged enough to go and make any sort of protest at the public meeting about the move. We come back to a word used previously: apathy. I know a lot of folk who just can't be bothered to fight anymore, and I'm sure other folk know other folk who know other folk... People would come back if the team improved and we found ourselves in the Championship. Of course they would. But being in League One is poisonous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 That will only happen with a winning team on the pitch. Well, yes, those hardcore who are "hanging their scarves" up would, I think, return if the team started winning. The hardcore, however, who have stuck with the team are only now losing interest in the team, even though we've been rubbish for a while. I think this is due to loss of identity with the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) But like I say, it's the football team we support, so why use this as a reason not to attend? It is actually the "club"... We are all part of the "club"... I simply do not enjoy it as much any more. I got hurt after supporting the team all year for TTA to rip the carpet from under our feet with nine games to go. I was pretty pissed off about it and never really recovered from it... Also, the faithful who have seen the club through so much, I reckon, would be back once they re-discovered identity with the team, or the team improved. A winning team will bring people back... Are we likely to see that unless Failsworth is a shock hit ? Are people going to identify with a team based in manchester ? We wait and see... I'm not sure how bothered the faithful are anyway about the move to Failsworth - other than your regulars on here, no one seemed enraged enough to go and make any sort of protest at the public meeting about the move. Heard much from the likes of Beardy for a while ? How many games has the likes of Zorro been to this season ? You can rest a sure its not just people on OWTB not feeling the best at the moment... For every Beardy, Zorro and Zero there will be others... Would a protest achieve anything ? If someone starts one and I feel failsworth is wrong after seeing the plans I would be happy to join it.. I don't see it happening though... I certainly do not think it will achieve enough to bother starting... Edited January 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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