Giver Upper

[Dave_Og]

I'll freely admit that my interest, after 43 years, is at an all time low and that it has been heading in that direction for the last seven years. Clearly I am not alone but equally clearly I still care to some degree otherwise I wouldn't be on here.

 

In all the gloom I can't help wondering if there is anyone out there who is preapred to do something constructive about it rather than just whingeing. It seems obvious that the trust is the answer but I don't know what it stands for anymore.

[opinions4u]

What do we want the Trust to do?

 

How do we want to fund that?

 

Who do we want to spearhead whatever it is we want them to do?

 

What is the desired outcome?

[Lee Sinnott]

I'll freely admit that my interest, after 43 years, is at an all time low and that it has been heading in that direction for the last seven years. Clearly I am not alone but equally clearly I still care to some degree otherwise I wouldn't be on here.

 

In all the gloom I can't help wondering if there is anyone out there who is preapred to do something constructive about it rather than just whingeing. It seems obvious that the trust is the answer but I don't know what it stands for anymore.

 

My interest has gone. I'd done all the games up until the Wycombe game and then I just decided I wasnt wasting my time on them. I've sold my season ticket and have signed up to play on Saturday's.

[OldhamSheridan]

What can the trust do?

 

In the big scheme of things; no money and the marketing expertise of Hitler.

[OldhamSheridan]

My interest has gone. I'd done all the games up until the Wycombe game and then I just decided I wasnt wasting my time on them. I've sold my season ticket and have signed up to play on Saturday's.

 

 

Now this is the more pertinent question; What can the club do to get YOU back?

[Dave_Og]

What can the trust do?

 

In the big scheme of things; no money and the marketing expertise of Hitler.

ask questions, report back

[BP1960]

I'll freely admit that my interest, after 43 years, is at an all time low and that it has been heading in that direction for the last seven years. Clearly I am not alone but equally clearly I still care to some degree otherwise I wouldn't be on here.

 

In all the gloom I can't help wondering if there is anyone out there who is preapred to do something constructive about it rather than just whingeing. It seems obvious that the trust is the answer but I don't know what it stands for anymore.

 

After 50 years I feel the same, the negative tactics and lack of ability to get players to play e.g Chris O'Grady, Dean Furman in a way that suits them gives me an empty feeling.

There doesn't seem anyone at the club putting out good vibes, and that needs to change.

[Diego_Sideburns]

ask questions, report back

 

That's what's happened at two Forums. Many do not believe the answers given and comment repeatedly about their incredulity, which adds to the unrest from what's happening on the pitch.

[Dave_Og]

That's what's happened at two Forums. Many do not believe the answers given and comment repeatedly about their incredulity, which adds to the unrest from what's happening on the pitch.

Maybe they are not the riight questions. Personally I don't believe that forums are the right, well, forum. Can;t expect anyone to give full and accurate answers to questions thrown at them on the hoof. Submitted, thoughtful questions answered in a considered way would, I think, be more productive.

[BP1960]

Maybe they are not the riight questions. Personally I don't believe that forums are the right, well, forum. Can;t expect anyone to give full and accurate answers to questions thrown at them on the hoof. Submitted, thoughtful questions answered in a considered way would, I think, be more productive.

 

There is a lack of rapport with the public and thats stems from the directors and the managership.

The club lacks charisma at all levels.

 

[De_La_Vega]

The issue I find at the moment is the ground - it is sapping the life out of the club. Having three sides of the stadium just gives you a bad vibe from the off, and is a dark reminder of the uncertainties that face the club's future.

 

I'd say the key issue is that the move to Failsworth is largely unpopular, and I would hazard a guess that not very many fans believe the reasons given for the move. What we need to know is;

 

- how much is the land at BP worth.

- how much is the proposed site worth.

- how much will the stadium cost, and what would be the comparable cost of redeveloping BP.

- who is funding it and how.

- what does the new site offer that BP doesn't.

- what are the amenities that are possible at the new site that are impossible at BP.

- which other sites have been considered, and on what grounds have they been rejected.

 

You get the impression that the club's protestations as to the values of the various parts of the stadium equation are not fully believed by the Latics fans. My worry is that if we move it has to be because it is right for the club, but the dark murmuings from the gallery seem to suggest that some feel that the new site is right for the owners rather than the club.

 

I agree that the Trust has to be the answer, but nobody trusts Barry Owen to actually do a job. I've never met the guy, but all I hear is that he is viewing the Trust chairmanship as a mandate to put his own views forward rather than using it to provide the range of fans' perspectives and to then report back the findings.

 

I'm sure that there are people on this site who know the guy so is there any chance that we could get a response to these concerns? Whenever I see a post by Barry Owen he posts once and then disappears and all we see is abuse. Can the moderators not set up a forum that he will look at and respond constructively, where any personal criticism is moderated out so that I can actually get an answer to this?

[real]

I wonder if the club has failed to move with the times or if in fact most clubs have failed to move?

 

20-30 years ago it was Lees and Stotty, and they were never popular. Since then it's been never really changed, bar the 2 years when CM was acting like the man at the bar buying all the drinks. But then he left leaving a big bar bill behind him.

 

The only discerible difference I can see is the manager and the playing staff. We, the fans, have hounded out most of the managers in the last few years, so the chance of getting another JR is remote. Are other clubs different in this respect? I'd say not, but maybe it's that we had JR for so long that we feel the merry-go-round effect all the more?

The players never stay here long thesedays, so we can't feel the same affiliation, but again, that's common to many clubs.

 

Maybe the real problem is the fans thirst for information and the need to feel "involved" - that's how we've seen off the last 2 managers, if we didn't have that, RM would have still been here, and probably Shez would have been too (obviously not both of them though).

[BP1960]

The issue I find at the moment is the ground - it is sapping the life out of the club. Having three sides of the stadium just gives you a bad vibe from the off, and is a dark reminder of the uncertainties that face the club's future.

 

I'd say the key issue is that the move to Failsworth is largely unpopular, and I would hazard a guess that not very many fans believe the reasons given for the move. What we need to know is;

 

- how much is the land at BP worth.

- how much is the proposed site worth.

- how much will the stadium cost, and what would be the comparable cost of redeveloping BP.

- who is funding it and how.

- what does the new site offer that BP doesn't.

- what are the amenities that are possible at the new site that are impossible at BP.

- which other sites have been considered, and on what grounds have they been rejected.

 

You get the impression that the club's protestations as to the values of the various parts of the stadium equation are not fully believed by the Latics fans. My worry is that if we move it has to be because it is right for the club, but the dark murmuings from the gallery seem to suggest that some feel that the new site is right for the owners rather than the club.

 

I agree that the Trust has to be the answer, but nobody trusts Barry Owen to actually do a job. I've never met the guy, but all I hear is that he is viewing the Trust chairmanship as a mandate to put his own views forward rather than using it to provide the range of fans' perspectives and to then report back the findings.

 

I'm sure that there are people on this site who know the guy so is there any chance that we could get a response to these concerns? Whenever I see a post by Barry Owen he posts once and then disappears and all we see is abuse. Can the moderators not set up a forum that he will look at and respond constructively, where any personal criticism is moderated out so that I can actually get an answer to this?

 

 

It is the supporters that hold the power at the club if they choose to use it, that was shown by the Civic Centre walk, unfortunately the negative football on display at BP has driven many to apathy.

[real]

- how much is the land at BP worth. The site can hold 300 houses, so at about £50k per plot = £15m, about half that if you keep the club there.

- how much is the proposed site worth. I think it's been stated they paid £3m + they'll have to pay lease fees on the council bit

- how much will the stadium cost, and what would be the comparable cost of redeveloping BP. Dunno £15-£20m? probably similar cost whichever site is chosen, only RRE would be worth keeping imho

- who is funding it and how. The £12m estimated difference between the value of the BP site and the cost of the Failsworth site, plus abit more for the shortfall?

- what does the new site offer that BP doesn't. £12m towards a stadium, larger site so more facilities, possible increased fan base?

- what are the amenities that are possible at the new site that are impossible at BP. All you could really do with BP is housing, Failsworth "could" have a lot more stuff

- which other sites have been considered, and on what grounds have they been rejected. I'm sure this has been posted many times, but Hollinwood gas holder (contamination), Coal Pit lane (green belt & infrastructure), Higginshaw (infrastructure)

 

Just my own "guess-work".

[oafc0000]

Just my own "guess-work".

 

I think he was after real answers and not guess work.

[real]

I think he was after real answers and not guess work.

 

Well, he'll have to wait then. What the BP site is "worth" will only be determined when someone buys it.

What the development at Failsworth will cost will only be known when we've got a design to look at.

 

Some of those responses have been published on here, perhaps others will be able to confirm whether they are accurate or not.

 

Alternatively DLV could try emailing the club for some of the answers.

[Senor_Coconut]

I think he was after real answers and not guess work.

 

 

The answers to most of those questions are out their and have been for quite awhile.

[De_La_Vega]

I could e-mail the club, but would I get answers that would satisfy the majority? Maybe not.

 

The issue I was getting at is that we are not privy to the data and research behind the ground question, which is where the Trust should come in. Which leads to the crux - that people don't have faith in our supposed representatives.

 

As for the stadium development costs; aren't the Council supposed to be buying into this in a "Community Stadium" manner? And to suggest that the £12million surplus will be used won't be correct becasue the club won't get it all at once - they'll take loans and then look to pay them back from increased revenue in the future. Which begs the question what are the amenities that we are going to build at Failsworth that we cannot put in place at BP. Houses isn't the answer - it is about the astro pitches and corporate facilities but I would be interested to know what those are.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that Hollinwood's land isn't contaminated - aren't the Council hoping to put some business in place there in the next couple of years? What were the sites at Higginshaw and Coal Pit Lane? Any chance of seeing the numbers on them? Or do we just have to believe what we are told? Because (to close the circle) people don't believe what they are told because we can't trust the Trust.

 

I cannot put this apathy down to performances because while we don't look like we know how to score, the team hasn't been playing awfully by and large. Otherwise more people would still be watching becasue we would rightly acknowledge that we have been a little unlucky to have both Taylor and Abbott injured at the same time. Also, when Stitch was in charge we were awful - not his fault but the players were cheap and rubbish - and when Talbot and Moore were in charge we were one dimensional and crap. Yet neither time did we see such wholescale apathy and naval-gazing.

 

Could it be a hangover from the disappointment of seeing a team with everything last year that imploded and underperformed so badly? I think that has more to do with our problems.

[DerekWilson_1968]

I'll freely admit that my interest, after 43 years, is at an all time low and that it has been heading in that direction for the last seven years. Clearly I am not alone but equally clearly I still care to some degree otherwise I wouldn't be on here.

 

In all the gloom I can't help wondering if there is anyone out there who is preapred to do something constructive about it rather than just whingeing. It seems obvious that the trust is the answer but I don't know what it stands for anymore.

 

You can count me in with that pocket of fans Dave.

 

This is my 36th season and I have a ST, but have hardly been such is the level of apathy toward all things OAFC related.

 

Like you it has been coming for a few years during which I kept my ST going as I still enjoyed the social side of going to the match, but it has tempered off with my ever decreasing enjoyment of football related matters.

 

In the last two seasons I have spent my £600+ and been to 16 games at BP, I haven't been since Huddersfield (though I did miss an eagerly anticipated game against L**ds through illness). I bet I can't gather enough interest to go to another half dozen games this season.

 

It isn't too many years ago that the thought of missing a home game was utterly unthinkable and about 75% of away games were attended as well. I've been to one this season at Millwall because I was working in London, and maybe 5 last season.

 

The club has gone past the point of stagnation now in my opinion. Too many false dawns and too much apathy around the place for me to care enough other than to morbidly trawl through the boards to see where the next stumbling block is lying for the club to trip over.

 

Maybe it is a case of apathetic fans dragging the club down, maybe the opposite is the case, but there is an air of ‘terminal patient’ around BP at the moment and if the club is to survive something needs to change soon.

 

Lack of ambition in signing many a journeyman/ players obviously not good nor capable enough, the farcical thought (well, in my mind it is) that Failsworth may be the solution in a ground that even without having seen a line on a piece of paper reeks of 'it'll do while we get out'. Lack of discipline, continuous February collapses and now a team, which from what little I have seen this season, that looks like it is so out of its depth that the FL may as well relegate it now to save the remaining hardy souls the heartache in May.

 

There seems to be very little link any more between club and fans, and whilst we should all be grateful for our financial bailout from TTA 6 years ago (or however long ago it is) it seems more and more like a costly and temporary reprieve.

 

I'm not sure what would get me interested again, and that being the case I'm not in a position to ask the questions that need asking. There are other people more suited to doing those things.

 

If they were giving STs away for next season right now, I wouldn't take one.

 

Hopefully they will turn it around, but I fear they won't. In a few years I will just be another statistic in the number of hardcore fans that eventually drift away into being casual supporters.

 

I for one, think that is really, really sad.

 

Derek.

 

 

 

[BP1960]

I could e-mail the club, but would I get answers that would satisfy the majority? Maybe not.

 

The issue I was getting at is that we are not privy to the data and research behind the ground question, which is where the Trust should come in. Which leads to the crux - that people don't have faith in our supposed representatives.

 

As for the stadium development costs; aren't the Council supposed to be buying into this in a "Community Stadium" manner? And to suggest that the £12million surplus will be used won't be correct becasue the club won't get it all at once - they'll take loans and then look to pay them back from increased revenue in the future. Which begs the question what are the amenities that we are going to build at Failsworth that we cannot put in place at BP. Houses isn't the answer - it is about the astro pitches and corporate facilities but I would be interested to know what those are.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that Hollinwood's land isn't contaminated - aren't the Council hoping to put some business in place there in the next couple of years? What were the sites at Higginshaw and Coal Pit Lane? Any chance of seeing the numbers on them? Or do we just have to believe what we are told? Because (to close the circle) people don't believe what they are told because we can't trust the Trust.

 

I cannot put this apathy down to performances because while we don't look like we know how to score, the team hasn't been playing awfully by and large. Otherwise more people would still be watching becasue we would rightly acknowledge that we have been a little unlucky to have both Taylor and Abbott injured at the same time. Also, when Stitch was in charge we were awful - not his fault but the players were cheap and rubbish - and when Talbot and Moore were in charge we were one dimensional and crap. Yet neither time did we see such wholescale apathy and naval-gazing.

 

Could it be a hangover from the disappointment of seeing a team with everything last year that imploded and underperformed so badly? I think that has more to do with our problems.

 

Try offering a free ticket to watch Latics to a non regular and see the reaction.

[Zorrro]

Can the moderators not set up a forum that he will look at and respond constructively, where any personal criticism is moderated out so that I can actually get an answer to this?

 

Something similar to this, perhaps?

[Matt]

-----Original Message-----

From: rummy@owtb.co.uk [mailto:rummy@owtb.co.uk]

Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:40 PM

To: Alan Hardy

Subject: Alternatives that were considered - dismissed?

 

Good afternoon Alan,

 

Hopefully the ongoing Q&A process between fans and club wasn't restricted

to one evening in Failsworth, so I'm taking this opportunity to ask for

some clarity on a few issues.

 

With the debate on pubic forums reaching a point where there is a divide

amongst fans, it is clear that there have been a number of alternative

sites suggested as opposed to the earmarked Failsworth land. These

alternatives have been raised by some supporters as potential sites for

the new Oldham Athletic Stadium development, however what is not clear to

these supporters is whether the Board of Directors/OAFC planning committee

have already considered them.

 

I quote the community by saying: "the board might be well advised to list

the areas that they have identified and/or dismissed, and the reasons for

each. At least then we'd know that Coal Pit Lane/ Higginshaw Lane Gas

Works/ Beal Valley/ Counthill/ Hollinwood/ Ferney Field/ Park Road or

wherever else people come up with weren't suitable and why."

 

It would be in the best interests of proper fan/club communication to at

the very least, ask the Board of Directors to indicate which sites have

been considered and dropped, as quoted above.

 

I'm sure you'll agree there is a lot at stake here, and the more this

process is accessible to the public, the better the relations become.

 

I await your response in due course,

 

Regards,

Matt.

www.owtb.co.uk

 

-----Original Message-----

From: alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:32 PM

To: Matt

Subject: Re:Alternatives that were considered - dismissed?

 

 

Matt

 

Just got a few minutes spare to reply to you.

 

Quite simple really.

 

All the sites mentioned have at some stage been considered.

 

The site we were looking for had to be accessible without irresolvable highways issues, 25-30 acres to allow us to generate supporting income from other developments, free of costly remediation requirements due to contamination, relatively flat and the owner had to be minded to sell and at a price that made sense and not an inflated one due to the misconception that money was no object.

 

All of the sites failed the test for at least one of the above reasons.

 

We also had to bring in as much revenue from the Boundary Park land as we could and since the economic climate has changed so much over the past two years we now need to sell all the land where earlier we could have realized enough by selling only 10 acres and then re-developing the stadium.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Alan Hardy

Chief Executive / Director

Oldham Athletic AFC

 

T: 0161 624 4972

F: 0161 627 5915

E: alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk

 

Boundary Park,

Furtherwood Road,

Oldham.

OL1 2PA

 

Visit us online at www.oldhamathletic.co.uk

 

Registered in England No. 4989487

 

 

 

[De_La_Vega]

Try offering a free ticket to watch Latics to a non regular and see the reaction.

By which I take it you mean the football is so bad that they'd refuse? If so that proves nothing because I'd turn down tickets to almost any other team through a lack of interest. Football outside the Prem is regularly pretty crap, but then people watch it because of a connection with the club.

[De_La_Vega]

Cheers for that Rummy, although I suspected that would be the answer. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Trust should be able to see more than just the end result (they should be able to see the actual data) and give us a fan's assertion that this is all in order. Because my concern is that if Failsworth makes the best economic sense to the owners then it would be pretty easy to turn to people and say "oh that site is contaminated / too expensive / not big enough" etc. I'm not accusing the club of this, but as Mr Derek eloquently put it - this looks like it could be a sticking plaster to cover a withdrawal by the owners.

[Lee Sinnott]

Now this is the more pertinent question; What can the club do to get YOU back?

 

Nothing. I'm done now. If they were playing in my garden, I'd shut the curtains.